People hating gadgets - is it the gadget to blame, or the rider?

M

mystiandsunny

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
1,882
Location
South Buckinghamshire
Visit site
Find watching people slate draw reins, the use of spurs/whip/martingale etc, very interesting. There are horrendous pictures of people riding badly using gadgets on the internet, but then there are horrendous pictures of people riding full stop! I would agree that gadgets add extra force into the equation (that is, after all, why they were designed), and make it easier for people to ride badly and hurt their horse. I would say though, that they are just tools, and like any other, can be used well, or badly. In a way, it would be fairer if you had to pass an exam to be able to use such things, or at least answer some questions!

I get to the yard straight from work at 6.30pm each evening, with three horses to ride. If I can use something to make life easier at the end of a long day's work, I will. So if spurs will save me some effort, I'll use them. If it's windy and the choice with a spooky youngster is draw reins used as a martingale or a fight with head right up in the air and running sideways, I'll use the draw reins. After a few goes the horse will learn that being ridden in the wind is ok, you just get on as usual, then I won't need them. When a young horse begins to realise that while it CAN go on the bit from being ridden forward into a contact, it doesn't HAVE to, I prefer to use draw reins for a session (only takes one), to remind the horse that I can make it, and it does have to, than to argue by see-sawing on its mouth or riding it into a hard contact, or any of the other methods I've had recommended to me.

I don't understand why people need to use draw reins/de gogues/market harboroughs on a constant basis, as they are training aids, meant to be used to solve a particular problem, then moved on.

But in general, it isn't the fault of the tool, but of the rider.
 
Quite agree.Would add that if contemplating using a gadget really make sure that you understand how to use it.If you don't understand don't!
 
I love that you mentioned using draw rein as a martingale, i think some people have forgotten that's that what they where made for in the first place, not shoving the horse head in! :D
 
Careful you are liable to be told any minute that either;

What you are saying is not right or you have an inexperienced eye:-))

la la la
 
ilovecobs said:
I love that you mentioned using draw rein as a martingale, i think some people have forgotten that's that what they where made for in the first place, not shoving the horse head in! :D
Click to expand...

This. One of my horses had a tendency to turn a spook into a rear and being a bit thick he often fell over backwards. I never hacked out without draw reins on him, as being able to "reel him in" meant he'd land forwards, not backwards. Never once schooled him in a pair.

I read post after post on here from people trying to get their horses "into an outline" when it's blatently obvious that they think this means the horse putting its head in/down into what they think is a nice position. The gadget thing is just an extension of this misunderstanding as gadgets can be used to force the issue.
 
I totally agree! I am annother who will use a gadet if it will make my life easier but i will only use them if they are in no way a harm to the horse, they need experienced hands, as you say they bring extra force into the equation and can cause more damage than good in the wrong hands.

Also agree that these shouldnt be sold to or used by just anybody should be able to answer questions about how/why the gadget is used before you are allowed to purchase it. This in turn will lead to a rise in knowledge about "an outline" and working the horse properly and much happier horses and riders.
 
Any gadget is as good as the hands that use it.

Saying that, how about seeing an inexperienced uneducated rider first of all yank her poor pony in the mouth every day for a year becuase she 'keeps putting her head down'

Then, rider gets a few lessons, dawns on her pony was trying to go nicely, then proceeds to saw at the poor creatures mouth everyday, until her 'arms feel like they are going to drop off'

She is then advised by all manner of 'knowledgeable' horse people to try riding in side reins, bungee, matingale, market harborough, chambon, spurs. Then moaned cos none of them worked.

I'm not kidding.

God huffed at when I suggested that good old fashioned basic schooling would help, back to basics with some lunging in side reins - pony barely broken when she got it. And also told that it was alright for me cos mine does it all for me!
 
IMHO you guys have a good attitude to gadgets. I am personally 'anti-gadget'. I like all of my horses to go in a snaffle, no martingale, and only a flash if they really need it! I would rather cure a training problem rather than a quick-fix. That said, I will VERRRRRY occasionally use a set of draw reins and a pessoa for lunging. Just as a 'reminder' of what is expected - never to force them into a fake outline.

I am however very sceptical of draw reins - I have ridden too many horses for other people who 'snatch' up frequently and this is attributed to too frequent use of draw reins daily, to keep the head down. So for my own horses, it really is once in a blue moon.
 
A hammer is a hammer.
It can be used to gently tap off the back of a delicate watch or it can be used to kill someone.
One takes brute force. The other takes skill, years of of practice and almost certainly a few broken watches along the way ;)
 
JunoXV said:
A hammer is a hammer.
It can be used to gently tap off the back of a delicate watch or it can be used to kill someone.
One takes brute force. The other takes skill, years of of practice and almost certainly a few broken watches along the way ;)
Click to expand...

hear hear.
I've seen draw reins used carefully, judiciously, and expertly, once or twice in my life.
I've seen them used to lever the horse's neck into a pretty-looking curve more times than I care to remember. They increase the rider's strength and influence enormously. Horrible things in all but the most expert hands imho.
If they're being used as a martingale, why not use a martingale? I'm not as anti- those, especially a nice straightforward standing martingale for something really chucking its head around. No damage to horse's mouth, no risk of rider's nose or teeth. Fabulous.
 
JunoXV said:
A hammer is a hammer.
It can be used to gently tap off the back of a delicate watch or it can be used to kill someone.
One takes brute force. The other takes skill, years of of practice and almost certainly a few broken watches along the way ;)
Click to expand...

Perfectly put!

I love hearing people moaning about seeing someone riding in "a strong bit to stop the horse AND spurs to make it go faster" and complaining about how cruel and pointless this is. I often wonder whether they have ever seen the spanish riding school.......................
 
kerilli said:
hmm, and since when were spurs supposed to make a horse go faster - they are suppoed to be there to refine the aid, to finesse it, to give pin-point accuracy, not as a goad. :( :( :(
Click to expand...

Quite but there is a post like that in NL just about once a week.
 
kerilli said:
hmm, and since when were spurs supposed to make a horse go faster - they are suppoed to be there to refine the aid, to finesse it, to give pin-point accuracy, not as a goad. :( :( :(
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! If spurs were ment to make the horse 'go fast' wouldn't jockey's wear them??? No, there are an aid for fine control of movement.
 
Katt said:
Perfectly put!

I love hearing people moaning about seeing someone riding in "a strong bit to stop the horse AND spurs to make it go faster" and complaining about how cruel and pointless this is. I often wonder whether they have ever seen the spanish riding school.......................
Click to expand...

Agreed. That said, I have no problem riding in a pair of round ended spurs, not so I can get for "forward power" but so I can lightly brush my legs against their sides, to lighten my aids further. I figure I'd rather be gently poked in the ribs than kicked. But thats all I will do, a gentle poke :) and NOT ever on a horse dead to the leg, I think it only makes that worse.
 
kerilli said:
If they're being used as a martingale, why not use a martingale?
Click to expand...

In the case of the horse I just mentioned, he never inverted or tried to work above the bit, he was excellent like that. When he hit around 45 degrees in a rear, the draw reins could literally be used to pull him back down. A running martingale wouldn't have even come into effect at that point and I didn't like the "fixed" idea of a standing when he had a tendency to tip himself over backwards. I suppose it had the same effect on him as someone standing on the ground, pulling him back down. Whereas most horses would fight more against this, he actually just gave up on the rear and landed back on his feet. I did say he was stupid (Warmblood, natch ;) )

It's not something I've ever had to do before, or since, but it worked for that individual horse. My use of them never changed his way of going as I was very conscious of when I was using them and why... which is the key I think. He wouldn't have known they were there until he was playing Spanish Riding School at a leaf/rock/parked car etc.
 
I don't see a problem of using them if they are used correctly.

I don't own many gadgets. I have a chambon I've used once, a pessoa that I got for xmas - still in packaging. And side reins.

I once borrowed a market harborough - then gave it back without using it.

Teddi does have a running martingale, as he chucks his head about out hacking... That's it.

Am tempted with draw reins, but can pretty much get him in an outline without.

But... Ihave used them before working on yards and see the benefits.
 
I believe there is a time and a place for most gadgets. What I dislike is the use of gadgets to replace schooling, and gadgets used incorrectly, often by numpties who know no better.
 
I think some gadgets have their place in the hands of an experienced rider. I can think of some horses that are too much of a handful to hack without them and its just safer for both horse and rider.

What I find odd is that so many people class their horse as "difficult" and use gadgets to say, bring their horse into an outline whilst schooling. I think people should always ask themselves if its their riding that's lacking, or are they actually dealing with a problem horse.
 
I'm really not a big fan of draw reins, but have to use them on my mare once a week at the moment schooling on the flat to try and improve the canter (she's 16.3 quite a handful and I'm 8 stone and 5"3) Its the only way I can physically stop her using her massive stride and running against my hand, and one session a week and she's generally set up.
 
Gadgets are only as harsh / soft as the person using and fitting them, I really do think they can do good in the right hands.
I use a few on my boys (waits to be shot down at that statement!) I lunge them BOTH in my pessoa (EVIL person I know!) and I have seen the benefits in their way of going and it is certainly helping to teach Lord some self balance (No I don't strap them down in it) and also it's helping to develop his back / neck / bum muscles correctly which in turn makes it easier for me to maintain a good shape and balance when I am riding him.

I also use a harbridge on banner every now and then as he can become quite resistant against my hand so this just encourages him to soften down into my hands.

Also use a running martingale for jumping and spurs for flat and jumping.

(Now awaits to recieve the award for HHO's most hated rider!! :p)
 
Hi everyone.
Just read the various threads with interest. I have had my ex-racehorse since he was 13 and struggled with him for 6 years with instructors telling me to pull the reins and kick him into a contact which just resulted in endless fights and me getting frustrated. And this instruction was from someone who rode at prix st george level, so I stupidly believed them. My boy refused to go forwards, fought with his mouth and was generally just hard work and not a pleasant ride. About 18 months ago I started having lessons with an instructor who teaches a more classical style of riding. She taught me that the horse has to learn to carry itself without being pulled, kicked and tied in by gadgets. It was a really steep learning curve for me as I had to learn to have soft, forgiving hands and had to get my boy to trust me again. The improvement has been immense and even though he is 20 years old, stiff with arthritis and has had injuries including a fractured leg and serious tendon injuries, we compete and regularly win at unaffiliated dressage. Not a great level you all may think, but a huge achievement for both me and him.
I also think gadgets have their place. Six weeks ago I bought another ex-racehorse and I regularly lunge her in either side reins or a harbridge (put on loosely) and it is making a difference to her ridden work. I think every horse is different, but I think patience is the best gadget. Don't rush them...does it really matter if you get to the competition in 3 weeks or 3 months?
 
I do get very interested reading all the comments that say things along the lines of 'draw reins are ok in experienced hands' - how do you gain experience? A horse is usually ok in experienced hands but you don't gain that experience without riding!
I've used draw reins once. When I was about 14. Ohhh, scary. Horse didn't suffer, I was told strictly not to use them without the guy giving me lessons at the time being there (he told me to use them at the time) and they were probably only used on and off for about 20mins. Didn't need them again.
I think a bit of sense goes a long way with most things. I wouldn't dare call myself 'experienced' the way people on here seem to see it, but more than capable of learning about how to use these 'gadgets' *cough*training aids*cough* (you know, for aiding training...) and when to use them, and gaining the necessary help.... and also knowing when to stop using them.
I'm now waiting to hear that I'm obviously a crazy inexperienced child, which I certainly am, but oh wellll :p
 
Personally I don't think of side reins being a 'gadget' - they are a training aid and used correctly on the lunge encourage the horse to get used to and accept the contact and how to carry themselves in that outline before they have to worry about carrying a rider. I don't like draw reins, generally creates a false outline and seems to often be used by people who are unable to get an outline any other way!
I was sceptical about using a Pessoa, but on the advice of my physio I bought one and have been very pleased with the results on both my horses - much stronger topline.
There are so many gadgets about and it does seem to be that the more incompetent riders are the chief purchasers!
 
I dont object to the use of gadgets in the right situation & by riders who have been taught how to use them properly. I think they all have a use in certain situations for certain horses. I do however think sometimes they are relied upon too much as a quick fix by riders who dont know any better, i really dont like seeing gadgets used day in, day out to pull the horses head in to what the rider thinks is a 'correct outline', it drives me mad. I quite happily use a chambon when lunging my mare occasionally as she's not back in ridden work yet and gets quite hollow & tight so anything encouraging her to work long & lower is a bonus. I was taught by a knowlegable instructor how and when to use it though and have used them for quite some time. I inherited a Pessoa a few years ago too, but have never used it as i haven't a clue how to fit one and dont know anyone who does. I keep it in case someone can teach me someday but until then it stays in it's bag. I should sell it really but i'm too much of a hoarder! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top