People in the back of a horsebox

[Ashgrove]

Probably one for ROG, or anyone else that knows

What is the law regarding driving a horse lorry with people in the living area?

My lorry only has one seat in the cab area, with the 'passengers' door being a full height door with a walk through to the living.

 

[marmalade76]

AFAIA you may only travel in the back of a lorry if there's a through cab.

 

[Fides]

its the same as a caravan - illegal sorry

 

[Elsiecat]

its the same as a caravan - illegal sorry

Untrue.
If there is a cut through cab then you're good to go

 

[PaddyMonty]

Untrue.
If there is a cut through cab then you're good to go

Provided the seating in the living area does not face forward. If it does then seatbelts are required.

 

[Ashgrove]

What a mine field!
I don't have a cab as such, this is the view from where the passenger seat would be if there was one, picture taken before I owned the lorry, there is now a table between the seats.

This is the 'ugly' door, full height, step in and there are 3 steps to 'floor level', the steps are where the passenger seat would be, you walk through to the living. The 'ugly' door is the only door into the living apart from the door into the horse area.


Did any of that help?

 

[Slightly Foxed]

"Seats in the rear of a horsebox, did not, prior to October 2007, require seatbelts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it was not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded and that there is access from the cab to the living area.

An EU Directive (2005/40/EC) on the installation of seat belts required that from 20 October 2007 new vehicles have to have seat belts fitted on all seats except those seats intended solely for use when the vehicle is stationary.

Specifically, it is important note the specific legislation relating to the carrying of children onboard goods vehicles. By law, children must wear the correct restraint whilst in a moving vehicle. Children aged up to 3 years old cannot therefore travel in a vehicle without seatbelts.

From May 2009, the seat belt wearing directive prevented more passengers being carried than there are seat belts in the rear of vehicles.

It is possible, in many cases, to have seatbelts fitted retrospectively to all forward and rearward facing seats. These seatbelts must be fitted by a professional installer and you should always consult with your insurance company prior to carrying out any modification."

And this:

"The law relating to the use of horseboxes is complicated and horsebox owners and their drivers should seek specialist advice if they run into difficulties with the police or the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA).

In a recent criminal trial we acted for the driver of a horsebox who was prosecuted for driving the vehicle in a way which involved danger of injury to passengers because there were two passengers seated in the living area who were travelling without seat belts (indeed the horsebox was manufactured before seat belts were required to be fitted).

Despite our attempts to persuade the Senior Crown Prosecutor (CPS) to see sense and withdraw the case and in spite of serving the CPS with an expert opinion which concluded that there was no evidence of a danger, the CPS insisted on fighting the case to trial.

At the subsequent trial the court concluded that the prosecution was so weak that our client should not have to put forward any defence case at all. The prosecution was thrown out and a costs order was awarded in our client's favour."

 

[Elsiecat]

What a mine field!
I don't have a cab as such, this is the view from where the passenger seat would be if there was one, picture taken before I owned the lorry, there is now a table between the seats.

This is the 'ugly' door, full height, step in and there are 3 steps to 'floor level', the steps are where the passenger seat would be, you walk through to the living. The 'ugly' door is the only door into the living apart from the door into the horse area.


Did any of that help?

I think the seat facing backwards is legal. And the one facing forwards would be with the installation of a seatbelt.

 

[MrsMozart]

Five years ago, when I had a lorry I checked with the insurance company (can't remember which one). I was told that so long as there was a seat per person then I didn't need seatbelts, and that there had to be a full wall (could include a doorway with a closed door) between the people in the rear and the horses.

It looks like the 2009 ruling has changed that though.

Thank you Slighlty Foxed for the info.

 

[ROG]

About a year or so ago there was a magistrate court case in Leicester on this very issue

A horsebox was stopped in the county by plod and two people were found to be sitting in unrestrained seats in the living area

The outcome was that because there was no danger at the time they were stopped then no offence had been done

The authorities (CPS) decided that appealing that decision and taking it to crown court for perhaps a more defining legal definitive was not in the public interest

 

[ROG]

I have a feeling that posts 7 and 10 are related !!

 

[Equi]

I can't comment on the legalities, but awww i love the wee door! its adoorable