Peoples thoughts on importance of Bonding with Horse..

[showpony]

Just curious what peoples thoughts are? I have cracked it with my Mare over the past wk, now we have always got on but had possible trust issues with each other - she now follows me around the field ( no headcollar ) , no more Bridle Issues ( she used to hide in corner of stable thinking I couldnt see her everytime I produced the Bridle ) also a friend lunged her the other day when I was there & she was a monkey, kept stopping & looking @ me , when I stepped in she responded immediately to my voice .... She is like a different horse.
Now its taken 3 mths to get to this stage but surely some people should slow down & make the effort & perhaps there would be less issues than if things are rushed if that makes sence.

 

[ccolouredccob]

I know exactly how you feel. When I first got my mare 3 years ago I couldn't catch her without her buggering off and even when I did get her head collar on she would just tank off across the field. She spooked a lot I think it was to do with my confidence when riding her because I was expecting her to mess about and she did.
But now she comes straight to me in the field, I can lead her in with no problems. When she is loose in the school she follows me, if I run she will trot next to me and if I put a jump up she will go over it with me. Our bond over the last few months has become amazing! I never understood about how people could have such a connection with their horse, but I'm realising now

 

[Cortez]

If you mean taking the time to let the horse understand that you're not a scary person, then yes I think that is important. If you mean waiting for some sort of magical "connection" that means only you can do anything with the horse, then no. You sound pleased that your friend didn't lunge your mare well: I'd be mortified that my training methods didn't work so that they were effective no matter who was handling the horse.

 

[Sparkles]

If you mean taking the time to let the horse understand that you're not a scary person, then yes I think that is important. If you mean waiting for some sort of magical "connection" that means only you can do anything with the horse, then no. You sound pleased that your friend didn't lunge your mare well: I'd be mortified that my training methods didn't work so that they were effective no matter who was handling the horse.

Ditto.

Classic example would be my TB lad. Anyone can handle him or ride him. However, to get the best out of him - ie, in a constant outline, direct transitions, working forwards correctly, etc, then he won't 'just do it'. He will remain perfectly mannered and would not do a thing otherwise, however, has his 'buttons' which the rider needs to learn to get the best out of him....which I think is the same for most horses. But for standard day-to-day regular things, I'd expect him to be the same with whoever is handling him.

That said, if a person is completely nervous or as useful as a chocolate tea pot around horses, then I can understand the horse not being switched on or being how he normally is, but, that's due to miscommunication, than trust.

 

[showpony]

Not a fruit loop looking for a " Magical connection" & re your other comment, Mare is 4 & only getting used to lunging & friend in-experienced from lunging so was trying to teach her - in no way " Mortified " in my training methods!

If you mean taking the time to let the horse understand that you're not a scary person, then yes I think that is important. If you mean waiting for some sort of magical "connection" that means only you can do anything with the horse, then no. You sound pleased that your friend didn't lunge your mare well: I'd be mortified that my training methods didn't work so that they were effective no matter who was handling the horse.

 

[paddi22]

it sounds like it was confused by the change in lunging method.

Inexperienced with lunging horse + inexperienced lunger = bad experience all round

I wouldn't mind training a friend to lunge with an experienced horse, but i wouldn't let them touch an inexperienced lunger as i don't think its fair on the horse. It's not sure what to do, its been told properly one way by you, and then your training is getting undone by someone with different body language and signals.

Thats great you are progressing well with your mare tho!

 

[Baggybreeches]

If you mean taking the time to let the horse understand that you're not a scary person, then yes I think that is important. If you mean waiting for some sort of magical "connection" that means only you can do anything with the horse, then no. You sound pleased that your friend didn't lunge your mare well: I'd be mortified that my training methods didn't work so that they were effective no matter who was handling the horse.

^^^ this ^^^
I actually detest the fluffy way in which the word bond is used. A horse needs mutual respect with the person providing for it's needs, not a deep spiritual connection. There are horses I have got on with well over the years and some that have made it clear they preferred other people, my current pair are quite comfortable & settled with me but equally they are perefctly happy to be looked after by other people (except last night when they wouldn't catch for my mother!).
I think people tend to confuse 'bonding' with trust & confidence.

 

[Caol Ila]

Indeed. I think it is a greater testament to your training skills if you produce a horse that more or less anyone can handle safely.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I really can't say it any better than Cortez did. She/he summed it up perfectly.

I only feel I've done a good job in training my horses if they can be handled by anybody.

Terri

 

[Miss L Toe]

If you mean taking the time to let the horse understand that you're not a scary person, then yes I think that is important. If you mean waiting for some sort of magical "connection" that means only you can do anything with the horse, then no.

This is it really, I had never heard of bonding till I came on here, but had worked with hundreds of horses before, professionally.
As to bonding, well when I bring my horse in, he very very occasionally shows me his bum, and won't be caught, most days he comes to call, and to the bucket, some days he canters up to me, but those days tend to be cold and wet days!
Other people think he gets treated too softly, but strangely if they try to handle him "barrack room style" he backs off and resorts to "refusenik" This is why I might appear to be slightly fluffy bunny with him, rewarding him for forward thinking and trying not to create a fuss when he tries to back out of a situation [spooky boy].
He knows if he is getting groomed how to point out itchy bits, because I have trained him to do this, and if he needs a lot of back and bum scratching he knows how to tell me, I suppose that is bonding, but he does the same with other people, they just don't notice his signals.
He will sometimes follow me round the arena after taking his tack off, and if he is unhappy [eg a rather tinny indoor school he will trot round me as though on a lunge line, this just a natural reaction of a horse looking for a herd leader. I suppose "we are bonded" in your terms OP

 

[Rowreach]

Most of the horses with "issues" that I end up dealing with are suffering from owners who spend more time "bonding" than actually training and riding their horses. I can usually "bond" with them in a matter of minutes - something to do with the horses going "oh thank goodness here is someone who is going to be kind, consistent, and not treat me like a pet hamster"

 

[PandorasJar]

I've had moments I've clicked with horses, I've bonded with a few and some I never will do either with.

I think it's essential to put the time in and I would rather spend longer on the ground than rush to get riding. All of ours will greet me at the gate. I can leave and come back within 30 seconds and they'll walk back down to the gate if called. One of our liveries had a horse no one could get near. So OH and I put in the time playing with her morning and night, she was one you had to bond with or there was no trust.
This doesn't mean that no one else should be able to handle them, it is far too much hassle to make a horse so reliant on you (unfortunately had this problem with one after an attack).

Pan

 

[Cortez]

Most of the horses with "issues" that I end up dealing with are suffering from owners who spend more time "bonding" than actually training and riding their horses. I can usually "bond" with them in a matter of minutes - something to do with the horses going "oh thank goodness here is someone who is going to be kind, consistent, and not treat me like a pet hamster"

Ha! I think I love you!

 

[PandorasJar]

Most of the horses with "issues" that I end up dealing with are suffering from owners who spend more time "bonding" than actually training and riding their horses. I can usually "bond" with them in a matter of minutes - something to do with the horses going "oh thank goodness here is someone who is going to be kind, consistent, and not treat me like a pet hamster"

I guess this is where interpretation comes in.

My version of bonding incorporates training. It's putting the time in, youngsters are expected to have me lean on/over them to get a treat, pick up a foot, walk or trot when asked etc. Even the basics with a nervy horse of getting a scratch all over their body, not just a shoulder or bum that I'm presented with. I treat it as a 'play' session in their field but manners are expected.

I also think there are moments that can change your opinion of a horse. A couple that OH and I have never had a particular connection to have really surprised us with behaviour, so sometimes it's just seeing something in them.

Pan

 

[HaffiesRock]

I agree that a bond is about trust and respect between horse and human.

My pony has been badly abused and beaten in the past and was nervous of everyone. He wouldnt let you touch his legs, head, panicked when tied, couldnt be caught and wouldnt let you mount. I have spent a lot of time working on his issues and I can now catch him, pick out feet, groom everywhere and he stands quietly tied. Once I had gained his trust I asked others to do the same to him, so now he will allow most people to catch, groom, feet pick etc with no problem.

I had the back man, dentist, vet and farrier and he got a clean bill of health. Finally got his new saddle yesterday and he let me mount with no problems. My friend has been up today and she has got on him too, again with no issues. But, I am the one who feeds him so I always get the neighs

 

[Rowreach]

Ha! I think I love you!

lol we do agree on many things

I guess this is where interpretation comes in.

My version of bonding incorporates training. It's putting the time in, youngsters are expected to have me lean on/over them to get a treat, pick up a foot, walk or trot when asked etc. Even the basics with a nervy horse of getting a scratch all over their body, not just a shoulder or bum that I'm presented with. I treat it as a 'play' session in their field but manners are expected.

I also think there are moments that can change your opinion of a horse. A couple that OH and I have never had a particular connection to have really surprised us with behaviour, so sometimes it's just seeing something in them.

Pan

Yes I do agree about interpretation

There are some horses I meet that I don't particularly like as characters, but I can still work with them and they trust me. Others, especially my own, but often other people's, I am much closer to. Some are so screwed up it makes me want to cry, the stuff they've been subjected to, often in the name of "natural horsemanship" where the common sense bit has been taken out of it and the horse (and often the owner) has ended up a ball of confusion That's not a pop at NH, I have a lot of time for common sense horsemanship (less for the commercialised stuff though).

I do a lot of work from the ground, but not to the exclusion of riding because generally that is what owners want to do with their horses, but it is often where the problems arise.

It's quite embarrassing (and sad) that many horses will come to me, let me catch them in the field or stable, handle them all over, but disappear in the opposite direction or hide in the corner when the owner appears.

I never use food rewards, I don't think they are necessary and they are often counter productive. Voice, scratches etc work better for me. I heard the other day of a woman who spent 4 months clicker training her horse (unsuccessfully) to let her brush his forelock. I'm sure he enjoyed all the bonding!!

 

[PandorasJar]

I never use food rewards, I don't think they are necessary and they are often counter productive. Voice, scratches etc work better for me. I heard the other day of a woman who spent 4 months clicker training her horse (unsuccessfully) to let her brush his forelock. I'm sure he enjoyed all the bonding!!

I am quite happy using a mix; food (usually grass picked up off the ground by their feet ), scratches, praise etc. I actually find treats particularly useful for training horses which nip/barge (I know the reaction to that ). Mine all know that whatever the reward they stand and wait for it and not in your space.

I've never bothered with clicker training horses. I thought it was a load of rubbish until I had a go clicker training a dog and was rather impressed with how it went. I can see it's place but wouldn't bother myself.

Pan

 

[showpony]

Maybe I came across wrong in my OP - below sums it up, basically trust is what it is & putting the effort in on the ground has help us hugely with trust in our ridden work.

I've had moments I've clicked with horses, I've bonded with a few and some I never will do either with.

I think it's essential to put the time in and I would rather spend longer on the ground than rush to get riding. All of ours will greet me at the gate. I can leave and come back within 30 seconds and they'll walk back down to the gate if called. One of our liveries had a horse no one could get near. So OH and I put in the time playing with her morning and night, she was one you had to bond with or there was no trust.
This doesn't mean that no one else should be able to handle them, it is far too much hassle to make a horse so reliant on you (unfortunately had this problem with one after an attack).

Pan

 

[Cortez]

Not really relevant, but many years ago when I was apprenticed to a trainer, he told me "Never agree to train a horse named "Baby"" Why? Said I, "Because you'll have to apply all the smacks that it should have got throughout it's life" he replied, the intimation being that spoiled horses are harder to train (being named Baby was the clue...)

 

[9tails]

My horse definitely prefers my father, because she only gets fed by him and therefore he is a demi-God.

 

[LJN]

Most of the professional riders I know only ever see their horses when they are tacked up and ready to go.... they refer to them as 'the mare' or 'the brown one' and they still manage to get a pretty good tune out of them and never seem to have problems if they need to hop off and pick up a hoof, adjust tack or whatever. Maybe some people give off a 'respect me or else' vibe that horses pick up on? Or maybe the grooms just do a very good job of teaching the horses to respect humans?

 

[PandorasJar]

Most of the professional riders I know only ever see their horses when they are tacked up and ready to go.... they refer to them as 'the mare' or 'the brown one' and they still manage to get a pretty good tune out of them and never seem to have problems if they need to hop off and pick up a hoof, adjust tack or whatever. Maybe some people give off a 'respect me or else' vibe that horses pick up on? Or maybe the grooms just do a very good job of teaching the horses to respect humans?

So someone has still taken the time to train them. I don't think every single person who works with the horse needs to take the time, but someone somewhere has had to or you wouldn't have a rideable horse.

 

[ShadowFlame]

IMO, for a real 'partnership', its vital. Makes is completely different ball game with them aswell... you're working together rather than against each other. Its taken nearly 12mths to get to the point where me and my current lad are 'getting' each other, well worth the wait though!

 

[LJN]

So someone has still taken the time to train them. I don't think every single person who works with the horse needs to take the time, but someone somewhere has had to or you wouldn't have a rideable horse.

I agree, I guess that puts me in the training before bonding camp

 

[Caol Ila]

Most of the professional riders I know only ever see their horses when they are tacked up and ready to go.... they refer to them as 'the mare' or 'the brown one' and they still manage to get a pretty good tune out of them and never seem to have problems if they need to hop off and pick up a hoof, adjust tack or whatever. Maybe some people give off a 'respect me or else' vibe that horses pick up on? Or maybe the grooms just do a very good job of teaching the horses to respect humans?

I worked at a dressage barn where the owner/trainer rarely referred to any of the horses by name. My horse, being the only mare on the property, spent a whole summer being called "the mare" or "your mare." As an aside, those freakin' imported dressage warmbloods were 17hh + of obnoxious, crap ground manners. Every single one of them. The trainer I worked for told me that these German horses weren't like the American horses I was used to, they can't be trained in the same way or expected to behave like American horses. Um, okay. Or it's just that maybe you just don't care and don't bother because you have lackeys to tack them up, untack them, cool them down, feed them, etc.

 

[PandorasJar]

I agree, I guess that puts me in the training before bonding camp

As I said earlier I think it's all about interpretation. To me training is bonding. They go hand in hand. The horse learns to respect and trust you and othes. To others bonding is being the feeder or letting the horse get away with more etc.

 

[Littlelegs]

Ditto cortez & rowreach. I think you can get a bond where they'll go the extra mile for you, mares particularly. But we're talking extreme circumstances, not normal everyday handling or riding. After my pony got severely chewed up by a dog years ago the bond was obvious in that she'd listen to me above her own instincts when it came to reintroducing her to them. Likewise I remember hacking a mare from the yard I worked at, when we were surrounded by illegal dirt bikers on private land. Mares instinct was to go vertical, & want to bolt through the only clear path, which was a freshly plowed field, leading to a barbed wire fence & a 6' drop with a drainage ditch & concrete lane on the otherside. As it was, she just stayed put & reared. I'd lay a lot of money on the fact it was me who had fed, ridden, handled her for a few months that convinced her not to flee, over it being some supremely skilled riding that saved us.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Not really relevant, but many years ago when I was apprenticed to a trainer, he told me "Never agree to train a horse named "Baby"" Why? Said I, "Because you'll have to apply all the smacks that it should have got throughout it's life" he replied, the intimation being that spoiled horses are harder to train (being named Baby was the clue...)

BABY was sold on to be renamed Evita [registered as Secret Silver Dancer], she was always a delight and never spoilt, new owner had to find a stable name as I never could find the right one for her, so she was BABY until she was two years old!
Secret = dam's pregnancy undeclared, [covered at professional training yard!]
Silver = her beautiful coat colour as a youngster
Dancer = mites on hindlegs!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Most of the professional riders I know only ever see their horses when they are tacked up and ready to go.... they refer to them as 'the mare' or 'the brown one' and they still manage to get a pretty good tune out of them and never seem to have problems if they need to hop off and pick up a hoof, adjust tack or whatever. Maybe some people give off a 'respect me or else' vibe that horses pick up on? Or maybe the grooms just do a very good job of teaching the horses to respect humans?

Can't be a very big yard then, we used to have a hundred horses over a year, so found that it was less confusing to use their registered names, if not the "Pivotal Gelding" would usually work till they got a registered name.
Professional riders [jockeys and work riders], do have among ther number "horsemen" who are in tune with the horse and all his needs, but they have not bonded with one particular horse, they do well with all horses. In racing they may spend very few minutes on the ground with them, sometimes they are legged up and that is it!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

OMG Cortez, you just have to be one of my favorite posters. That "Baby" comment, NEVER TRUER words spoken!!!! Since we start horses for a living I can tell you unhandled at 4 is so much better than the " this horse is so good. He will be easy to start as he does everything I ask." Translation, I do what my horse tells me to do.

Having said that I have a "Cupcake". She was christened "Lila" but the Cupcake became a joke due to the very nature of horses with names like "baby". The Cupcake is very good but she's 2 and she's busy being a baby.

Terri