'perfect horse' cribbing... :(

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showaddy1

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Horse was recommended by friend, who'd seen him jumping/ xc etc... hes a rising 9 TB, eligible for ROR, smart looking boy, chunky type who has been advertised as bombproof.
Travelled 3 hrs yesterday, with a view to pick him up for a 1 month trial... anyway when reading the trial agreement I spotted the 'mildly windsucks when stabled'...did voice my concerns as i hadn't previously been made aware, but was promised that he doesn't do when turned out.
Brought him home, settled him in for the night, only to find him continuously windsucking this morning!
Not obviously stressed, plenty of hay to eat, I know its all new so he may settle, and will be turned out when insured Monday (Im praying nothing disastrous happens before then)..
So, Ive read to only provide fibre diet, but does anything help supplement wise? ... I will get him to the vet for a once over, the price doesn't really warrant a 5 stage vetting, but I am also considering having scoped for ulcers, would anyone do the same?
Or, would you hand him back, and say 'no thanks' even though hes capable of doing what you need?
 
A horse I used to look after was a windsucker, he had evented in his day, his owner put a collar on him when stabled and this stopped him doing it, it didn't bother him and he didn't windsuck in the field
 
JillA said:
There is a link to ulcers, well worth checking out IMO - collars mask the symptoms and don't address the underlying cause
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Yes the vets now think that collars just mask the problem. I would turn him out as soon as you can and see how bad he does it once out. If he does oyu will then have to make the decision to keep him or sell him. x
 
I'm not sure I like the idea of the collar, and agree I'd rather treat the cause. I'm just scared i'm buying another problem...
 
TBH if he had travelled for 3 hours that would be enough to upset his gut - did he eat much on the journey? I successfully treated one who had developed them after a 5 hour journey (ex racer so probably had a history of them too) - reduce acidity with bicarb and omeprazole if you can get it, line the system with coconut oil, ensure high fibre low sugar/starch diet and always have food in the system, and I used yoghurt as a probiotic to boost his gut bacteria. He has been fine ever since, if a little unthrifty but I suspect that is who he is.
 
He ate all the way, but it was their home produced, super rich haylage.. do you mean human omeprazole? And normal bicarb, I have both of those!
 
Human omeprazole is fine with the bicarb - it doesn't survive well enough to do its job in an acidic environment, hence the bicarb. I scrounged off everyone I knew, most had some they had been prescribed but not used, I needed to put together about 210mg for him, which was a lot of capsule. I opened them and tipped the contents in his unmollassed beet pulp feed.
 
If I was keeping a horse at home or on a livery yard that didn't mind cribbing/wind sucking and the horse suited me in every other way then would still buy as long as price reflected it and baring in mind maybe harder to sell on if you ever needed to unless fairly cheap
 
i had the ‘perfect’ horse - who it rapidly turned out to be a cribber (which wasn’t disclosed) and moreso a wood chewer. He wrecked every single wooden aspect of my yard and field inside a week or so and before I had had the chance to make changes to protect things. My stable door, wall edges, door frame, beautiful new gates at both ends of main field, fence posts, post & rail section, jump wings and poles. I have never met such a destructive horse in all my years. That coupled with him also being riggy (which also wasn’t disclosed) led to me really not liking him much at all I’m afraid. Poor chap was super under saddle but we just never bonded and I do blame these vices. Before we knew he was riggy he was tied up on the yard just along from my young mare, i nipped out of sight and heard all hell break loose - he had broken free and mounted her, biting her back so badly she couldn’t have a saddle on for weeks! I hadn’t had him vetted.. wished I had.
 
One of my friends horses cribs quite severely and she has to have regular physio for his neck and back as they are affected by the cribbing action. Just something else to factor in. Other than that though he seems to have no problems and is going great guns at riding club stuff.
 
Personally, I'd return the horse. There is evidence that cribbing is related to gastrointestinal pain, and two of the three horses I have known that were put down due to horrible colic were cribbers (both had epiploic foramen entrapment - hopefully spelt that correctly!). There is no evidence at all that cribbing CAUSES the problem, just that it is associated with it, so if you do decide to keep the horse management will be key.
 
I would take him off the haylage as this can be too acidic for some. Ad lib hay, high fibre diet.

I bought my older horse as a windsucker/ cribber 11 years ago. *touches wood* he has never had any detrimental effects from it. Please don't use a collar. Imagine having a bar of chocolate dangled in front of you that you weren't allowed to eat. It can cause even more stress.

If the horse is perfect in every other way and at the right price it wouldn't put new off at all.
 
So, on second visit to stable he was sleeping!! And only did twice whilst we were there... so I'm guessing he may settle. I'm not going to use a collar, if someone prevented me from drinking a glass of wine I would get mad! Been researching all day, the supplements are interesting, though seriously overpriced. He would never be without hay, and will be turned out as soon as!
 
I wouldn't buy a windsucker
would also wonder what other 'mild' problems they decided not to tell me if they didn't tell me this important thing!
 
I would put a mirror up in his stable and a healthy treat net like a munch net with an alfalfa or hay block in it and a rock salt lickI would also put up a grill not completely closed but so he can't reach the stable door to crib on.
Remember racehorses are stabled 24/7 with little fibre so must be bored out of their brains, it's no wonder this regime sets up stable vices. I would give him a chance and as much turnout as possible. Good luck OP
 
From my understanding, cribbing is different to windsucking? Cribbing they tend to chew, while sucking they grab something solid with their top teeth, lean back, and 'gulp'. Windsucking has been linked to ulcers, so with treatment you can definitely reduce the 'need' to suck. High fibre diets are best to prevent re-aggravating the ulcers, but you can still add calories in the form of oil etc. I've found as much turnout as possible in a paddock with electrified fences to be best, it's better for their tums and mind, and can go a long way towards breaking the habit. The habit doesn't bother me, and if the horse was a long term prospect I wouldn't think twice, however they can be difficult to resell.
 
showaddy1 said:
So, on second visit to stable he was sleeping!! And only did twice whilst we were there... so I'm guessing he may settle.
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Sounds like a stress response to the journey and new surroundings - that's a lot to take on board. Hopefully he won't do it any more once he has confidence in his new surroundings.
 
Hope he's more settled this morning?

Can you not just insure him now? Accidents can still happen in the stable 😊

But in answer to your original question - no it would not bother me if he was perfect in every other way. I'd say his current episode is response to the move.
 
My lad has constant access to food (hay or turned out) and the supplement protexin which is inexpensive and really helps, I soak his balancer and cubes and never feed him cereal or anything hard or compacted as it aggravates. He also has low sugar foods and I watch for sugars and acids in treats, carrots are fine but more than 1 shop bought biscuit type treat or Apple and he's off for a suck! I also replaced his stable door with a stall guard so he doesn't damage his teeth or the door (livery so not my door!) it's an internal stable so safe to do so but never been a problem
 
I had a lovely mare that wind sucked. 4 yr old warmblood/Tb dressage prospect. She was stunning and perfect in every way. I was aware of the sucking before I bought her, but not aware how badly she did it. I put her on all the recommended supplements, nothing helped. She was scoped for ulcers, diagnosed with grade 3/4, treated for these. Vast improvement seen internally on 2nd scope but no improvement in the sucking. Then she began to colic. Three serious episodes in the space of 10 days. She was referred to an internal medicine specialist for abdominal scanning. To cut a long and very sad story short, she was diagnosed with lymphoma and PTS. Post mortem showed lymphoma/early cancer changes in many of her internal organs. I'm convinced the wind sucking was a symptom.

I know that's a horrible tale and quite extreme, but personally I'd never have another, even if perfect in every way....
 
Odd comment about the collars.., of COURSE they mask the symptoms! The real problem with cribbing is here are such huge variances with it and no one can prove definitively what causes it. There are a lot if things you can do to reduce it but pretty impossible to erradicate. I had one who cribbed and wouldn't do it again. He was not severe but I hated the fact that we could not identify the cause. I did have him in a padded miracle collar at the end as saw 3 of his siblings (same sire) have colic related to the cribbing. Also take into account this needs to be disclosed as a vice to your insurance company and I would talk to them about how this could impact your cover.
 
Two things, is moving yard would be stressful for the horse, so the windsucking is going to show more.

Secondly, do you have to stable him? If you could keep him out most of the time it would help - this would also tie in with ulcer connection mentioned above. (Ulcers much more common in stabled horses, to do with the acid the horses stomach is producing all the time/being trickle feeders).
 
Give him a wee while and some turnout to settle him so you can assess how bad it really is. It could be he's doing it more than usual because he's unsettled. My last horse was a cribber, he only did it immediately after a feed. I had him for 8 years and it never worried me. He had no other issues and the only damage he did to his stable was wearing a small groove into the top of the door.
 
Tbh I would be a bit cross that they had only mentioned it 'hidden' via the trial agreement.

The dilemma for me would be re sale value - if you plan to have the horse long term then it is less of an issue, but the vice will affect his price and I would certainly be re-considering what I would pay for him to allow for this.

Having owned a cribber, it wouldn't necessary put me off again, as he was a fab horse and looked after me on the hunting field for many seasons. However it is a highly irritating habit, and he did destroy a lot of fence posts. I agree with trying to keep the horse out, and on as natural diet as possible, as my chap certainly did it more in the stables or at feeding time. I did have him scoped but no evidence of ulcers and was generally a good doer, so definitely a vice rather than a medical issue.

As he settles he may lessen the habit, but in my experience it will never go away, and only you can weigh up whether he is a 'keeper' and at least you have him on trial before committing to purchase.

Hope it works out x
 
He could well have ulcers or other issues.
How bad abs treatable they are you wont know until a vet has seen him.

If you like the horse you have to decide if you want the hassle of treating him and potential long term management plus will the seller give you a discount to take this into account?

Contact seller and have a thorough chat.
 
I'm feeling gutted tonight, farriers gearbox failed on the way to me , which means horse has to spend the next few days in and still cannot be ridden.
His strange cribbing/ sucking habit has reduced.. And I did put him out for a bit earlier so he's a lot more settled.. But I have an awful doubting feeling in the back of my mind..
The reasoning for the trial was because the owners facilities were poor, daughter could try him out and take him to riding club plus their little shows...
The way things are going we won't be getting off the yard!
 
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