Permanent nerve blocks advice ?

[Bella xo]

Morning guys . I'll try to keep this short but my mare has been lame since December 2014 . My vet as been working closely with her and she has also been referred to a specialist in Halifax . She basically has a cracked side bone that just won't heal ! On the x Ray's its tiny ! Even the vets were shocked as they thought it might have been something worse with how lame she is . So I agreed to have both front feet mri'd . This showed nothing expect for the inflammation around the crack on her side bone . She had 2 months box rest with a hoof cast on . Then another 4 weeks with heart bar shoes on . Through summer she was turned out on a tiny paddock where she would walk around . She then went extremely lame . To the point where she was hopping on 3 legs and my vet wanted to put her to sleep until he removed her shoes and she was sound !! I couldn't believe it . That was at the start of August . She's now lame again and travelling back to Halifax on Thursday . My friends horse was seriously lame and her vets cut the nerve in both front feet. He is now out competing . I feel like this is my last chance for her to be pain free and back out hacking again . She's only 6 I really am at my wits end now and it's awful seeing no improvement.

 

[ester]

Does she still have her shoes off?

Denerving has a lot of associated issues including not knowing if the horse has another injury/abcess etc and many people would certainly not jump a horse that can't feel its feet. Ethically I have major problems with it and would never do it.

When was the MRI/last xray, does it still show no healing?

 

[be positive]

I agree with ester it does not seem right to me ethically to denerve a horse so it can no longer feel it's feet in order to ride it, the associated risks of doing it to one with a fracture however minor would stop me from even considering it, I would be prepared to wait longer than 10 months to see if it will heal especially as she is still young, although as sidebone is not a true bone it may be that it will not heal but may lay down more bone to give support, it may be the new growth that is restricting her movement rather than the fracture itself or that there is more going on as she adjusts to being barefoot.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Denerving has been around for ages. Maybe, in some circumstances, it is something to be considered.

I wouldn't do it for a non healing fracture, though, however tiny.

Be aware that horses can go sound after denerving, but then suffer a catastrophic break down. It's not a cure.

I'm pretty sure it's prohibited for competition use (and rightly so).

 

[Amicus]

I'm pretty sure it's prohibited for competition use (and rightly so).

Your right it is prohibited.

OP was horse completely sound when shoes removed or just no longer hopping lame?

 

[Bella xo]

She was sound enough when the shoes came off to walk about on four feet . This where we are at now . She is barefoot now as the vets think this is the best option at the minute as she is a lot more comfortable. I've don't compete at all she's just a happy hacker . But she means the world to me and it's breaking my heart watching her lame all the time . Nothing seems to be working . Well that's what it feels like !

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would investigate therapies to promote heaing to see if any of them are appropriate in this case. Things to research could be laser therapy/magnetic therapy and there may well be plenty of others. I would also ask for a referral to a bigger hospital. IMO the vets at Halifax are only the vets others refer to because they happpen to have reasonable small horsepital faciities, not becasue they are brilliant vets. I would be asking for a referral to Liverpool, I think.

 

[applecart14]

She was sound enough when the shoes came off to walk about on four feet . This where we are at now . She is barefoot now as the vets think this is the best option at the minute as she is a lot more comfortable. I've don't compete at all she's just a happy hacker . But she means the world to me and it's breaking my heart watching her lame all the time . Nothing seems to be working . Well that's what it feels like !

At the end of the day you owe it to her for her to be out of pain. If denerving is the only thing that is going to work, or offers the best prognosis that its only fair that she had the procedure done. Just because people are 'shocked or feel uncomfortable' about denerving isn't enough reason not to try it with your mare. You could argue that chemical arthrodesis does this, my horse has had fusion with ethanol so he is not able to feel pain as its my understanding that the alcohol present in the joint space kills the nerves. Its the same thing, my boy could not be happier!

Don't make your decision based on other peoples negative comments, surely the best person to seek advice would be your vet. If your vet thinks its feasible then do it, they are the ones who know your horse the best. You have nothing to lose. If all you are doing is hacking then its not as if you are putting huge stress on that area, like you would by jumping or galloping.

At the end of the day she could do further damage by galloping around the field. A life without risk is a life not lived.

 

[ester]

It depends which nerves you are killing. Some denerving is very specific, some involves for example denerving the whole foot/pick a nerve and everything from there downwards is numb, very different to using ethanol for spavin- I think this is a welfare issue as as at the end of the day you owe it to your horses for them to be out of pain PTS is preferable as far as I am concerned.

there is also the issue of nerve regrowth which frequently happens

 

[Pinkvboots]

At the end of the day you owe it to her for her to be out of pain. If denerving is the only thing that is going to work, or offers the best prognosis that its only fair that she had the procedure done. Just because people are 'shocked or feel uncomfortable' about denerving isn't enough reason not to try it with your mare. You could argue that chemical arthrodesis does this, my horse has had fusion with ethanol so he is not able to feel pain as its my understanding that the alcohol present in the joint space kills the nerves. Its the same thing, my boy could not be happier!

Don't make your decision based on other peoples negative comments, surely the best person to seek advice would be your vet. If your vet thinks its feasible then do it, they are the ones who know your horse the best. You have nothing to lose. If all you are doing is hacking then its not as if you are putting huge stress on that area, like you would by jumping or galloping.

At the end of the day she could do further damage by galloping around the field. A life without risk is a life not lived.

they are not being negative it's their opinion just because it may sit right with you it doesn't mean everyone else who does not agree is being negative, the op has asked for people's opinions and help to decide what is best, it's not to be taken lightly it is a procedure done under a general that in itself is a massive risk for any horse,


oh and by the way applecart don't send me anymore videos of your horse being ridden I am not interested, I have never told you to have your horse pts, I made a comment about you having difficulty doing flying changes some times ago nothing else, I would have sent you a pm but it won't accept any.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry for the dumb question, but can the chip not be removed surgically or is access impossible?

 

[ester]

I think OP said it was cracked, which I envisaged hadn't generated a chip per se but was a partial break?

 

[applecart14]

I may have missed this somewhere along the way with other distractions but OP what has your vets said about the possibility of cutting the nerve? Did your friends horse have the same condition? I agree that at six she still has her whole life ahead of her, and if it were me I would try everything possible to see a way forward in conjunction with your vet. If not and she can live a pain free life there is always the option of the blood bank, I know of a number of horses that have gone there to live out their days in retirement living a useful and purposeful life donating the odd pint of blood.

Has the break/crack stabilised enough to contemplate ridden work albeit hacking? Again what is your vets opinion on this?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think OP said it was cracked, which I envisaged hadn't generated a chip per se but was a partial break?

For some reason, in my mind I imagined that part of the bone had cracked right off. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[ester]

For some reason, in my mind I imagined that part of the bone had cracked right off. Thanks for correcting me.

Only because I had already thought of that so re read the OP a couple of times myself

 

[Zuzzie]

I agree with applecart14. I would always try everything first before considering the option of PTS. I would chat to your vet to ask if de-nerving is only going to affect one specific part of the foot as this may help your decision. My horse was de-nerved a few years ago and has led a very happy active life since. Vet explained that only a small part of the hoof was going to be affected. However, before taking this step I would ask myself if I have given enough time for the crack to heal naturally. Six years old is very young to be thinking of putting your horse to sleep and I would do anything to keep from taking that final decision - I can't think of anything worse.
Best of luck with this - I hope it works out well.

 

[char21]

Bella xo Im sorry I know this is an old post but can I ask what you decided to do and how your horse is please?

 

[Auslander]

The OP hasn't visited the forum for 5 years, so is unlikely to see your post - but if you start a new post explaining the problem with your horse, there's bound to be someone who can help.