Peroglide/Prascend's status on FEI list

[spookypony]

A friend has had a young horse (only 6yo) diagnosed with Cushing's.

I know there was a kerfuffle last spring about Peroglide being on the FEI Prohibited Substance List, when BRC and the various official bodies all decided to commit to the FEI rulings.

However, I checked the FEI list today, and Peroglide is listed as Controlled, not as Banned. Does this mean that one could now get a therapeutic use exemption for this? Did this change since last year?

Any clarity into this matter would be welcomed!

 

[Gamebird]

It is controlled but no-one will commit to a withdrawal period before competition (controlled drugs are those, like bute, that you are allowed to use freely so long as they are completely out of the horse's blood stream by the time of the competition).

The problem with pergolide is that it is a drug that horses which suffer from PPID really need to be on full time, not a couple of weeks treatment, then a fortnight (for instance) withdrawn before a comp, then back on again.

A little birdie did tell me that they don't actually test for it....

 

[spookypony]

It was my understanding that a Controlled substance may even be administered at a competition, if there is a therapeutic use exemption?

That sounds like a messy situation that does no one any favours...?

 

[SCMSL]

You can fill out a form to be allowed to used controlled substances during competition. As long as your request is accepted by FEI, and you bring the form with you to comps, you're fine.

 

[spookypony]

You can fill out a form to be allowed to used controlled substances during competition. As long as your request is accepted by FEI, and you bring the form with you to comps, you're fine.

That's the impression I was under, but the upset specifically about this drug last year is making me wonder if it's more complicated. I've heard rumours of people that manage to compete by making sure the horse has its meds more than 24h before the actual competition, and then giving the meds immediately after the competition, but I don't know if that's actually a legitimate way do deal with this.

 

[Gamebird]

For various unrelated reasons I've been looking into this and a couple of other maintenance treatment drugs this week. Boehringer told me to ring the Jockey Club. The Jockey Club say it's not an issue in racing (fair enough). BE told me to ring BEF and BEF can't seem to find anyone willing to give me a definitive answer. I'm interested in its use relative to eventing, but it's all under FEI guidelines anyway.

If you can pin anyone down into giving an answer I'd be very interested!

 

[mtj]

My understanding is that Pergolide/Prascend is not performance enhancing in itself, but can be used to mask other substances.

Can only suggest writing to the governing body ie BD, BS for confirmation.

 

[dianchi]

Not to be rude but are you likely to be at a comp where testing could happen? If not and its in the horses best interest i wouldnt worry.

 

[redheadkelj]

It has a withdrawal period of roughly 10 days however that is only approximate as I worked out the half life from the active ingredients so that may not be too accurate. You will not get an excemption certificate as it is actually a human drug not equine (at least that is the reason I was given when I tried to get one last year). It's not an easy position to be in!

 

[ester]

I thought prascend was the horse version of pergolide? hence it was more expensive?

 

[redheadkelj]

It is but as it has the same composition it still has the same rules applying to it... Or so I have been told by vets! I'm prepared to be corrected however!

 

[EstherYoung]

Not to be rude but are you likely to be at a comp where testing could happen? If not and its in the horses best interest i wouldnt worry.

All affiliated disciplines are now signed up to the BEF's version of the FEI regs: http://www.bef.co.uk/Information_fo...uine_Anti_Doping_&_Controlled_Medication.html

Anyone competing at an affiliated discipline at any level could in theory be tested. Big fines and bans if you get it wrong (and not just for your own discipline - for any discipline).

 

[spookypony]

It's not my horse, thankfully, but a friend's youngster that I'm asking for. It was bought with intent of going up the levels, so even if use of the drug could be swept under the carpet at low levels, it would block any hopes of higher levels, assuming that it couldn't get an exemption (on the assumption that the drug could stabilise the disease sufficiently to allow this, anyway).

redheadkelj, I'm very interested in your experiences! "It's a human drug", by itself, doesn't make any sense to me...surely, many drugs are developed for use with one animal, and then found useful for another? Why should the initial target animal of the drug make a difference, since this drug is the standard treatment of choice for what is apparently a rather common condition in horses (albeit not in 6yo!)? And if a horse can't compete with it, why is the drug "controlled" rather than "banned"?

 

[spookypony]

All affiliated disciplines are now signed up to the BEF's version of the FEI regs: http://www.bef.co.uk/Information_fo...uine_Anti_Doping_&_Controlled_Medication.html

Anyone competing at an affiliated discipline at any level could in theory be tested. Big fines and bans if you get it wrong (and not just for your own discipline - for any discipline).

Thanks for the link, EstherYoung. According to their guidelines for NETUE (National Equine Therapeutic Use Exemption):

"Please note that the Committee will not grant NETUEs for long term treatment of chronic conditions."

This would seem to suggest that Peroglide or Prascend might be acceptable given as a one-off at a comp for therapeutic reasons and granted a NETUE, but that horses being treated with this medication on a long-term basis, such as for management of Cushing's, are not eligible to compete in affiliated competition in the UK.

 

[Gamebird]

I've now spoken to a friend who is involved with this at FEI level. He says it's a massive head-scratcher amongst FEI vets but as it stands at the moment unfortunately there is no withdrawal period (from drug metabolism research he thought it would be likely to be weeks, not days). They all agree that it's not directly performance enhancing but the current position is that no horse being treated with pergolide is allowed to compete under FEI rules. At all.

 

[EstherYoung]

I think it's quite a worry for the pony club too - at the moment they haven't signed up to the BEFAR thingy but if/when they do it will really affect the many 100s of older cushingoid ponies that are worth their weight in gold for kids.

The other thing with the cushings drugs is that there has been a massive push in recent years to get horses tested earlier, so there are actually quite a few virtually symptomless horses with a cushings diagnosis....which leads to a bit of an ethical dilemma as if someone was to medicate in that situation it would be to stave of symptoms for as long as possible rather than to treat the horse.

In answer to the original question, if the sport is endurance I'd say that regardless of the drug dilemma, I'd be a bit nervous about asking a cushingoid horse to do top level stuff. My old mare had cushings and did low level endurance and loved it, but the cushings did make her a little more 'metabolically screwed' than a 'normal' horse - it would be very difficult to manage at higher levels I reckon. I never medicated her though, we coped with herbal supplementation as that did make a massive difference to her. I always figured that would leave us with the 'big guns' in our back pocket but as it was we never needed them.

 

[spookypony]

EstherYoung, what herbal supplements did you use? My friend is thinking of chasteberry, whatever that is. Sounds more like a birth-control device!

 

[Zebedee]

Chasteberry was what monks used to take to control their urges, so you're not far wrong! There is a herbal product out there called Cushy Life. I've only ever used it short term to take the edge of a rig colt prior to him having an op, and it certainly worked. Here's a link
http://www.equineherbals.com/products/cushylife.html

 

[EstherYoung]

That's the one We used the Equine Health & Herbal 'Hormonise' supplement. You can buy neat chasteberry berries but it's quite bitter - the liquid 'Hormonise' version was much more palatable for my mare.

 

[flame96]

i dont know about the controlled issues but i have a mare with bad cushing's and i dont use pergolide i use a herbal remedy that for her at least has been far more effective in managing her cushing's its called cushy life and i dont think it the FEI have any use with it being used so it may be an easier way of dealing with this issue it also works out cheaper than peroglide in most cases for me its almost 1/2 the price and it has no side effects than i have heard of or seen, i dont know if this helps but it may be worth a thought here is the link to the suppliers of this product. roger meecock was the person who introduced me to it is very well known and used. http://www.equineherbals.com/products/cushylife.html