Personal Choice - Hats

[GTs]

So many people raise the perfect valid argument with helmets - that is their noggin, and therefore their choice.

So now we have concluded that people can make their own choices - would you say it wrong for an OH (or family) not to support their sudden surge in need after a serious riding accident. Some might argue but they love them, but they could argue back you loved your brains too (I tend to believe most people do love their brains).

I just think that when people make this argument they are so short sighted in the fact that an accident it effects far more then just them, it effects everyone they love.

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
that is their noggin, and therefore their choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

They may well say this but if they have a serious fall and get brain damage then they will want our money for treatment, rehibilitation etc - if they took all sensible precautions fine. But i resent my tax money (well i don't pay tax yet

- but the prnciple!!) going to someone who didn't want to mess up their hair.
If they will bear the cosequences on their own then fine - but i doubt they will.....they'll need our money and their families support. If it was someone in my family that got brain damage because they didn't wear a hat then i'd be pretty pissed off with them.

 

[Tia]

Well one could be cynical and suggest that the treatment would be paid for by their NI Contributions and not yours? Or from their private health care plan?

 

[GTs]

Well there is no way they are going to contribute enough to cover the costs ($100,000s) - so it will raise the cost on insurance, or use other taxes.

 

[Tia]

And that's the beauty of the NHS in the UK - it is available to anyone whether they be alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, children, adults, people who take up high-risk sports, people who sit on their butts all day AND people who have accidents.

Sorry but for as long as the NHS is around it would be immoral and totally unethical to discriminate against certain people.

 

[GTs]

We are not discriminating we think poorly of every moron who could have lowered the risk factor in their accident whether they are driving dangerous, intoxicated, without a seatbelt, base jumped, riding a horse or bike without a helmet, had risky sexual behavior, train surfing, played tag with shot guns, etc but chose not too.

I personally think there is a far lower obligation to provide these people the best care available as there happenings were preventable, or at least they had the ability to be reduce their injury if they had taken proper precaution. I know in the ER there is far less sympathy for the guy who decided to smoke and fill his car up at the same time than there is a pedestrian struck by a motor vehicle.

Personally if any of my family were so blase about risks - I would hug them extra often as you never know when they might not be able to squeeze back, and if it was against the law I would call the police every time!!

 

[magic104]

As I have already stated it should be a matter of choice except out on the road, where I think it should be compulsory. I would say I 99% of the time I dont get on a horse without a hat, & I wont allow my daughter to ride without one. Hats have come a long way from when I worked at BSI & the tests have improved all paid for by the manufacturers/consumers. I think they have listened to riders & done their best to improve the style & comfort of these brain protectors! What I would like to know is what is the issue with picking up & putting on a hat to getting in your car & putting on the seat belt?? Or if you ride a moped or motorbike putting on your helmet. It takes a few minutes, nothing compared to being on a horse you have known years who suddenly spokes throws you & your head lands on the rails surrounding the school. I find it annoying to spend ages on my hair, put on a hat, ride for an hour, take it off & find it all messed up! But at least I get to do it all again. Riding without a hat is like playing Russian Roulette.

 

[eahotson]

I remember when it was not the law to have to wear motor cycle helmets and the number of young men I nursed who died from brain damage not wearing one. I also used to know a doctor who said he would never let his kids ride. I asked why not? He said as a doctor in anaethetics in one hospital in one year he had to switch off the life suport of 4 girls under 14 who died from brain injury due to a riding accident.I agree that the riders in competition particularly top competition should have to wear helmets WITH the chin strap done up at all times in public. They are role models particularly to young girls.I think all horse magazines should refuse to publish pictures of any rider without the appropriate head gear. Think it should be the law that all under 18 year olds should have to wear proper helmets with chin straps at all times.(Impossible to police I know, but the principle.)Think adults should be free to choose but think stupid if don't and their insurance company may refuse to pay up if they don't.In our yard which is pretty laid back actually ALL under 16 year olds HAVE to wear helmets whenever they re handling, never mind riding horses.YO insurance policy says they must.All adults must wear a hat when riding.

 

[MagicMelon]

The NHS already frown on horse riding anyway! I know of 2 people injured in horsey accidents (not badly luckily) and both got the impression when at the hospital that the doctors weren't very sympathetic because we should know horse riding is a dangerous sport. I thought this is very unfair! In ANY sport, you have to accept the odd accident.

I do think its wrong for people not to wear a hat especially when out hacking on a road or jumping. And Im sure the doctors WOULD frown on it, of course they would! When riding I think precuations should be made, just like when you get in a car - you put on your seat belt.

 

[Rambo]

It is law to wear a seatbelt in a car. It is law to wear a crash helmet when riding a motorcycle. In some countries it is law to wear a crash helmet when riding a push bike, and in cricket it is law for any player under the age of 16 to wear a helmet when batting. None of these people have the 'Personal Choice' of what to do, so why should horse riders be any different

I don't like the 'nanny state', but some things are just so obviously sensible that it defies belief

 

[brighteyes]

Hats are mandatory at this house. Sadly, you still aren't bullet-proof. It seems silly not to do the maximum to enhance your safety in any dangerous environment.

OH not too happy the kids ride at all, due to the dangers involved. I'm very torn and always try to do things right, but have still managed to have some oh so nearlys ...

I must stop reading posts like these!

 

[kick_On]

but where do we stop after everybody has to wear hat, then it will body protector, knee protectors, elbow protectors............. and i'm sure some equine shop will think of someone new aswell!!!!!!!!!!
just for walking your horse out of its stable!!!!!

I think education is key............. that in my eyes is personnel choice

next we'll be living in bubble wrap suits and horses just case, Now who got a wierd image of that

cos i have

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
but where do we stop after everybody has to wear hat, then it will body protector, knee protectors, elbow protectors............. and i'm sure some equine shop will think of someone new aswell!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that the legislation be brought into line with other, similar activities...i.e motorcyling

Obviously you will never totally alleviate the risk involved in riding horses, but it is such a quick win to wear a hat that it doesn't really need justifying in my opinion

 

[kick_On]

so this is my point,
your want to make it legal requried to wear a hat, at all times,or just for riding or being within 10 foot of a horse (cos horses can kick aswell)
and who's going to police this!!!!!
you know how bitchy some yards are????????

This is why education is the best way forward surely......

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
so this is my point,
your want to make it legal requried to wear a hat, at all times,or just for riding or being within 10 foot of a horse (cos horses can kick aswell)
and who's going to police this!!!!!
you know how bitchy some yards are????????

This is why education is the best way forward surely......

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would say for riding only. I agree horses can kick, and rear, and lots of other things too, but this is a statistics game after all, and I would suggest that far and away the greatest number of head injuries are incurred by falling off horses.

No, it wouldn't be easy to police. But if anyone ended up in hospital having been not wearing one, then it would / could be enforced

Education can help, but it can never mitigate against the unavoidable...

 

[TheresaW]

I personally always wear a hat when I am sat on a horse. I don't think I have ever worn one when working from the ground though. I think it should definitely be made law to wear a hat when riding on the roads.

 

[kick_On]

so ok for riding,

i'm going to NEC today to see spainish riding school and they don't wear hard hards with kite mark????????????

i feel that making legal would be a huge bad move, cos where will it stop next they ban you exercising your horse on road etc.

i know it would save folks BUT i hate nanny state and WHERE DO YOU STOP.............

 

[Rambo]

There is absolutely NO reason why the Spanish Riding School hats could not be altered to incorporate a safety helmet within.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one though

 

[SillyMare]

I did a BSJA class last weekend and the (teenage) boy next to me in the line up was told (over the tannoy) to remove his hat for the prize giving.

Novice horses, bits of ribbon flying around, riders with their hands full. Great time to tell all the men to remove safety equipment!!

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
I did a BSJA class last weekend and the (teenage) boy next to me in the line up was told (over the tannoy) to remove his hat for the prize giving.

Novice horses, bits of ribbon flying around, riders with their hands full. Great time to tell all the men to remove safety equipment!!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting one ! I ALWAYS used to remove my to receive my prize.....but that was in the days when I used to jump in a hat with no strap too. Nowadays (not that it happens that often lol!), I always keep my hat on

 

[PaddyMonty]

Playing devils advocate...law does not require the use of seat belts or motor cycle helmets on private land, only public highway. If wearing a hat was made compulsory same rule would apply so 90% of the time not necessary.

And yes I nearly always wear a hat.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally think there is a far lower obligation to provide these people the best care available as there happenings were preventable

[/ QUOTE ]

Well as I said, I think this thought process is totally unethical and any healthcare who acts in this manner is prejudice and should be taken to task.

There are plenty things in life which are preventable, however accidents still happen........where would you draw the line!

Is this thread another debate about making it law to ride in a hat? I thought it was about the burden placed on others? If it is the former then I will bow out.

 

[magic104]

I would like to see it illegal to ride on the highway without a hat. Why because you are possibly involving someone else ie a driver & because I think it stupid. My daughter suffered concussion with a hat, so hate to think what would have happened without it! I want magazines to stop publishing photos of people trying to sell their horses who are riding without a hat. It is a bit confusing to be told by adults to do something only to witness them doing the same thing. And hopefully if you get into a habit as a youngster you will be in that habit as an adult.

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I personally think there is a far lower obligation to provide these people the best care available as there happenings were preventable

[/ QUOTE ]

Well as I said, I think this thought process is totally unethical and any healthcare who acts in this manner is prejudice and should be taken to task.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why if you had to hungry people - one was lazy and did not want to work and therefore had no money, the other was disabled and could not work therefore had no money, no one would argue the first guy should get the food.

 

[emma69]

Because medical staff are taught to leave their personal opinions at the door and treat every person the same. It's why I have so much respect for some of the nurses I know - they treat criminals, domestic abuse agressors, obnoxious prats all with the same professionalism as they treat the more pleasant elements of society

 

[Tia]

You took the words right out of my mouth Emma.

 

[Agent XXX999]

I would like to make this point…

Up until 3 years ago I was a cocky horse rider who would ride anything with or without a hat (If I was jumping or competing I would wear one…nothing else) This was seen as perfectly normal behaviour by me and I would never have worn a hat unless I had too.

I then bought a youngster to bring on (having had a previous youngster and sold him for a significant amount more than he was bought for I thought I could ride anything) For some reason…I put my hat on (must have been fate) Anyway….it was a really good job because I fell off. I can’t actually remember falling off (but I know it wasnt long after I got on )as I woke up in hospital strapped to a bed with concussion and hypothermia – and being told that I had a serious neck injury. Apparently the horse had gone mad, and continued jumping on me when I had fallen off.

I ripped all of the ligaments and tendons off of my neck, lost feeling in my legs as my nerves all went dodgy, and had to be on morphine for the pain.

When I eventually got out of the hospital my mum showed me my hat – it was a Pikuer so not a cheap one – which was (and I am not exaggerating) nearly snapped in two.

This petrified me – that could have been my head.

Once I had recovered from my physical injuries (I am still having physio nearly 4 years on, I have still got memory loss of that month – I cant remember my grandmother dying which is a bit disturbing - I began to realise that it wasn’t just the physicality’s that were the problem. I had developed a genuine fear of horses and could not walk into a stable yard, let alone go in a box. My riding was hideous as I rode very defensively (and still do) – so I missed out on all my dreams of Young Riders and having a gap year to compete and work with horses. I also had to start again and build all of the confidence you get from riding from aged three ....

Thankfully – I think it is because I am so stubborn -it is all fine now and I am ‘back in the saddle’ on something so laid back he is almost horizontal. I have learnt to take things very slowly and not count my chickens. I have also learnt that I am better off not riding anything – laid back is best!

But most of all I have learnt that your hat is the most important piece of kit. I have also learnt that people don’t listen (my trainer being one of them) and like anything else, don’t want to be dictated too – as I didn’t, before I nearly died!

So what I am trying to say is that if you lead by example it is a lot better than dictating to people who will disregard it anyway on the basis of the fact it wasn’t their decision in the first place. They either have to learn the hard way or be the odd one out and conform to everyone else’s standards – like fashion.

 

[HORSE_magazine]

Hi
I just thought I would add a comment to this thread, as it was mentioned previously that the equestrian magazines should feature riders wearing 'appropriate head gear'. Horse magazine is delighted that the issue has been raised again - H&H discussed it in its leader column after some readers pointed out that Anky was photographed riding without a hat at 5 months pregnant; and we have also recently published letters pointing out, quite rightly, that some of the pics in Horse magazine feature dressage riders without safety helmets.

Our point of view is that rider safety is paramount, and whenever we photograph a trainer or leading rider in the saddle, we always request that they wear a hat with a chin strap - however, some choose not to wear a hat with a chin strap in our pics, and in many cases, do not even have one!

I agree with Jaki Bell in the 16/11 issue of H&H - 'where individual riders have the opportunity for control, let's not take the chance' - we should all exercise our personal choice to protect our head, and magazines such as Horse certainly recognise the importance of setting apppropriate standards for our readers.

Kathy Carter, Deputy Editor, Horse Magazine

 

[magic104]

Thank you

 

[the watcher]

I think it is only a matter of time before insurance companies will be writing this into policies as a specific exclusion..although they are likely to go further and insist on approved hats being worn at all times when handling horses..I would tend to agree with this although it is a real nuisance.

there will always be those who don't bother to insure of course, but if it was done no reputable rider would be seen without a properly fastened hat..they couldn't afford to risk losing their livelihood or compensation in the event of an accident.

If anybody has any doubts about the need to wear hats, even when on the ground, Henmen can tell the story about lunging her horse (she was wearing one - luckily)