PETA trying to ban horseriding

[Oreo&Amy]

In the online news I read that PETA is trying to ban horseriding. One quote is ‘If we look honestly at our relationship with horses, we must acknowledge that the decision to take part in horseback riding is made solely by one individual with little benefit to and no input from the other’. Unbelievable.
Just shows how they have no understanding of how good horse owners have a unique bond with their horses and how much their horses love their ‘work’. Some of PETA’s principles are a little more understandable (killing endangered animals for a handbag) but come on. They claim to love animals but clearly have spent zero time around good, caring horse owners. Yes there are bad owners and they should be dealt with. There are also bad parents does that mean we stop procreating the human race? I find this bizarre and not just because I’m a rider who spoils her horse rotten and knows him well enough to know he is happy. Thoughts??

 

[fiwen30]

That’s hilarious. How on earth do they expect to enforce that, even if it ever became a thing?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

PETA have no power to ban anything

 

[Goldenstar]

PETA have lots of opinions.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I don't care for PETA, but I'm starting to question a lot of what we normalise regarding how we interact with other species.

 

[ycbm]

It won't happen any time soon but they do have a point.
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[Prancerpoos]

Kitteninthetree - I live 12 miles outside of Brighton, so you may chose to disregard my like ?

 

[Oreo&Amy]

PETA have lots of opinions.

Most BS. And they objectified women with that gross naked ad with all the naked women everywhere. Hypocrites!!

 

[scats]

I hate PETA, but they do have a point here. Horses don’t get much out of it and the vast majority would be just as happy out in a field with their mates.

 

[ycbm]

Most BS. And they objectified women with that gross naked ad with all the naked women everywhere. Hypocrites!!

I don't see how that's hypocritical? The women consented to the use of photographs of them naked. Kind of emphasises their point about horses not consenting?

I find this bizarre and not just because I’m a rider who spoils her horse rotten and knows him well enough to know he is happy. Thoughts??

I think people need to question whether what we call "spoiling a horse rotten" is actually what the horse would consider being spoilt rotten, and even if it is, whether that is in a "massage at the spa" sense or a "here's your Big Mac darling" sense.
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[Oreo&Amy]

I don't see how that's hypocritical? The women consented to the use of photographs of them naked. Kind of emphasises their point about horses not consenting?





I think people need to question whether what we call "spoiling a horse rotten" is actually what the horse would consider being spoilt rotten, and even if it is, whether that is in a "massage at the spa" sense or a "here's your Big Mac darling" sense.
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Well they are supposed to stand for equality, but I don’t see any naked men. And in the #metoo generation I think consent is a different beast than it was when that advert was made!!!!

 

[Oreo&Amy]

I don't care for PETA, but I'm starting to question a lot of what we normalise regarding how we interact with other species.

But humans and domesticated animals have interacted (mostly well) for millions of years…..many wild horse populations would have died out without domestication and we could have a world devoid or lacking in these beautiful animals. I do believe you can interpret behavioural signals as to whether a horse is ‘content’ as opposed to unhappy…..

 

[Oreo&Amy]

I posted on instagram about Isabel Werth- that is disgusting though. Using kindness and common sense most riders can have a great mutual relationship with their horse or pony x

 

[lynz88]

PETA have lots of weird and whacky stuff that they campaign for. I frankly find them to be stupidly OTT. I tend to ignore anything PETA related, personally. It's like the Bible thumpers...very OTT imo and not worth my energy. 2 years ago a PETA member was protesting the slaughter of animals for meat outside of a slaughterhouse and was killed by a transport truck in Ontario. She was in the wrong - she was standing in a known blind spot of the truck driver when she was struck yet the outrage from activists was that the truck driver was in the wrong and she was an innocent protestor.

All that said, they do have a slight point however I do notice a change in my horse's attitude after he has worked and I do wonder if exercise releases endorphins for horses like exercise does in people. Said horse though, is fairly happy to just be a pasture ornament but so are so many people (sofa ornament).

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's weird my oh said to me about a month ago about them trying to ban the riding of horses in the future ?

 

[ycbm]

It's weird my oh said to me about a month ago about them trying to ban the riding of horses in the future ?

We already have some vets refusing to castrate animals so they can be pets, I think it's pretty easy this last few years to see how top level competition could be banned, then all competition, then leisure riding. Not soon, but definitely possible.
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[ycbm]

without domestication .... we could have a world devoid or lacking in these beautiful animals

How would that matter for horses? If it meant I could get the terrible images of how horses and donkeys are abused in working environments in the third world, systematic abuse of TWH horses in the US, long distance racers legs snapping in the desert, out of my mind, I'd happily never see a horse again.
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[KittenInTheTree]

But humans and domesticated animals have interacted (mostly well) for millions of years…..many wild horse populations would have died out without domestication and we could have a world devoid or lacking in these beautiful animals. I do believe you can interpret behavioural signals as to whether a horse is ‘content’ as opposed to unhappy…..

Did you...did you seriously just imply that humans are better at managing the planet than literal nature is?!

We're nothing but a tiny little smear on the grand scheme of evolution, darling. We don't matter a whit. The planet was here long before us, and it will endure long after we're gone. The best we can hope for is that we don't render it incompatible with biological life as we know it in the interim. And even if we do, it's a living planet. It will go on. Eventually, new species will rise from the ashes of our incompetence and inherit everything. Because that is what nature does.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yeah but most people cannot interpret horse behavior or how the horse feels, it's overshadowed by human feelings and emotions. We are selfish in this hobby and while people advocate for and/or practice "good welfare" standards, it's still all about us, the people. It's a selfish endeavor.

I battle with it a bit sometimes. It's always in the back of my mind. I've also said that if my riding gets worse with age, I will stop. It's not fair to the horse to tolerate my mediocre skills anyway, never mind if they deteriorate. I sort of draw a line for my selfishness there.

Sometimes I look around at a competition and think "this is actually a bit stupid" ? we dress up and bring these horses to this location, only to see a bunch of strange horses and stressed/nervous humans (not all riders are though). What a time. Granted, I can't talk because I compete as a piece of my horses education, but if we were having a bad time or I was a mess (nerves wise) I wouldn't do it, or even if he didn't have the nerve for it I wouldn't force the matter.

It's a selfish, weird, and expensive hobby.

 

[Birker2020]

Horses deserve to live their lives as nature intended. We can connect with horses in our care and have a meaningful and mutually beneficial relationship with these sensitive animals without climbing on top of them.

What rot! And if a rule came into force 'banning horse riding' (not that it ever would) I wonder what would happen to all the horses unable to be ridden anymore?? Millions PTS I would imagine, not every horse owner is prepared to keep an animal that can't be ridden.

 

[Orangehorse]

I could see it happening, a long time in the future. Humans have always exploited the planet and the creatures that live with us. From killing animals for food, then learning that some animals could be tamed and used - dogs, cattle and then horses. So it has always been humans using animals.

Until cars were invented horses were the main means of transport and that is all they were. A very few used them for sport - deer hunting, jousting, and not forgetting war horses, but that was part of being transport.

When you think of all the resources it takes to keep pet and sport horses it is a lot of unnecessary consumption. Although of course I also realise that this supports many individuals and businesses - vets, feed supply, farriers, equipment manufacture and supply - its all part of the modern economy. But is it necessary, for humans or the horses themselves? Not really.

In World War II there was mass slaughter of pet horses, even in the USA, as food would be for humans not pets. And of course poor old Warrior, the hero of WW I, was PTS at the outbreak of WW II as his owner realised that all the food that he was eating would be needed for humans - and he was pretty old by then of course.

The current horse population would have a job to survive without the intervention of humans, after all most breeds have been developed by humans for their own use - tall, fast, pretty, adapted to jump or to gallop or do dressage or all the other things that we want to use them for. But populations of animals soon adapt to fit their surroundings so they could go back to being just horses living (and dying) in the world.

 

[Birker2020]

I
The current horse population would have a job to survive without the intervention of humans, after all most breeds have been developed by humans for their own use - tall, fast, pretty, adapted to jump or to gallop or do dressage or all the other things that we want to use them for. But populations of animals soon adapt to fit their surroundings so they could go back to being just horses living (and dying) in the world.

Exactly this. Imagine if every horse/pony was now unable to be ridden. Riding schools and livery yards and eventing centres would close. There would be no more horse racing. All those horses that people would no longer have a need for, where would they all go? How would they survive? They are not feral, you cant turn a domesticated horse into a feral horse. They need their feet trimmed, wormed, etc. I know in the wild they have none of this but they have been born feral and this is different.

 

[milliepops]

Just because the horses currently exist in racing, riding schools etc isn't an argument for continuing to ride them, it just means they are conveniently there for our use. they will die and they will be replaced for as long as people see it as their right to use them. Otherwise you could say "well we can't shut down this lab that tests lipstick on rabbits because what would happen to all the rabbits". Sometimes a greater moral purpose trumps those kind of things.

Anyway, i highly doubt there will be any big bang effect where we all stop riding overnight and cull thousands of now useless horses. it is more likely to slowly become less acceptable and gradually decline a bit like hunting.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Tbh, I think the way that most people ride and train isn't optimal to the wellbeing and happiness of horses. We don't give our horses any autonomy, if they do anything we don't want then they're 'playing up' or 'naughty'. Most people 'correct' this with a stick. I think that most horses that appear to be outwardly 'well-behaved', are low-level scared of doing the wrong thing and being punished for it. We also micromanage their lives outside of being ridden. It's all far from natural.

I say this as a horse owner. I question whether we should be doing any of this stuff. And what you view as 'spoiling your horse rotten' might not mean anything to him/her. Most horses would probably be happiest out 24/7 with a large space to roam in and companionship from a herd, with a big shaggy coat, no rugs or horseshoes or any of the stuff we humans deem they 'need'.

 

[smolmaus]

Horses deserve to live their lives as nature intended. We can connect with horses in our care and have a meaningful and mutually beneficial relationship with these sensitive animals without climbing on top of them.

What rot! And if a rule came into force 'banning horse riding' (not that it ever would) I wonder what would happen to all the horses unable to be ridden anymore?? Millions PTS I would imagine, not every horse owner is prepared to keep an animal that can't be ridden.

I actually think both parts of this post are true. Having been a Riding School Rider for most of my life the riding part was how I got to be with horses. My work at the rescue over the last 2.5 years and the process of trying to back Sadie slowly (read: at snails pace) has been hundreds of hours of time with horses where riding is never even a thought in the back of my mind and I personally think I get more out of it, not less. Having unridden equines as companion animals, just because you love to be around them, is completely valid. It's also valid for people to say that they wouldn't keep horses without the sporting/ridden element as that is where they find the enjoyment. One isn't less than the other.

 

[MagicMelon]

Im on the fence. Im an eventer at my core, Im going XC schooling this afternoon and have a hunter trial at the weekend. But yes I am very much questioning the higher levels, there have been too many horse deaths - surely we can all agree with that? Something has to be done. Im really not surprised eventing is in the spotlight with PETA. From the outside, and even from the inside, it doesnt paint a pretty picture in terms of horse welfare right now does it? I would never compete at a very high level ever again, I did 1* and now I actually feel pretty guilty for asking that of my horse even though he never got injured, but I feel lucky now that he didnt. I wouldnt ask another horse to go probably beyond even novice level now as obviously its safer statistically at the lower levels. Horses dont choose to event, of course they dont. You see people hitting their horses all the time if they have a refusal - is that kind? Is the horse choosing the jump that jump because they want to or because they get smacked if they dont? IMO we should strip all those extra things away - take away the whips and the spurs and the nasty bits etc. We have to be seen to be making BIG changes to improve their welfare. People also say they "spoil" their horses rotten which I really struggle with as to them that normally means they give them a stable which they're in most of the time with lovely expensive rugs and the best hay etc. Great but a horse doesnt want any of those things ultimately - it wants to be outside 24/7 with other horses. I always try to keep my horses as naturally as possible, to me that is giving them the absolute basics but so many seem to think natural is bad! Leaving a horse outside in bad weather is terrible and the owner clearly doesnt love their horse, absolute drivel.

But Im also very aware of where will it stop - if we ban eventing, then horse riding in general would be the next target. Its a real moral conundrum but I support PETA that something needs to be done, a ban no, but big changes and a rethink of every single horse owner with how they look after and treat their own horses - yes.

 

[Birker2020]

I actually think both parts of this post are true. Having been a Riding School Rider for most of my life the riding part was how I got to be with horses. My work at the rescue over the last 2.5 years and the process of trying to back Sadie slowly (read: at snails pace) has been hundreds of hours of time with horses where riding is never even a thought in the back of my mind and I personally think I get more out of it, not less. Having unridden equines as companion animals, just because you love to be around them, is completely valid. It's also valid for people to say that they wouldn't keep horses without the sporting/ridden element as that is where they find the enjoyment. One isn't less than the other.

I get that, and one isn't less than the other (as I have proved myself with my previous and current horse) but what I'm saying is that businesses like racehorse trainers, show jumping yards, riding schools (the type of establishments where there are lots of horses grouped together) are not going to keep horses if they cannot earn a living out of them. Simple as that. Why would they? Horses cost a fortune, if you run a business and it doesn't make a profit it finishes.

I am guessing that the average Joe Bloggs would not keep a horse that couldn't be ridden unless of course they'd had it a long time and it owed them nothing but in the crazy situation described these are all perfectly healthy horses that some crazy law says we are not allowed to ride anymore.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I get that, and one isn't less than the other (as I have proved myself with my previous and current horse) but what I'm saying is that businesses like racehorse trainers, show jumping yards, riding schools (the type of establishments where there are lots of horses grouped together) are not going to keep horses if they cannot earn a living out of them. Simple as that. Why would they? Horses cost a fortune, if you run a business and it doesn't make a profit it finishes.

I am guessing that the average Joe Bloggs would not keep a horse that couldn't be ridden unless of course they'd had it a long time and it owed them nothing but in the crazy situation described these are all perfectly healthy horses that some crazy law says we are not allowed to ride anymore.

I think the mindset of horses 'owing us' is a huge part of the problem. It highlights how one-sided horse ownership can be, and therefore not to the benefit of the horse, but solely for the enjoyment of the rider.

 

[ester]

But humans and domesticated animals have interacted (mostly well) for millions of years…..many wild horse populations would have died out without domestication and we could have a world devoid or lacking in these beautiful animals. I do believe you can interpret behavioural signals as to whether a horse is ‘content’ as opposed to unhappy…..

you’re a bit keen with your dates
For horses domestication about 6000 years, not really millions ?
We’ve only been around 350000 years so def not millions ??

 

[Alibear]

I think we will eventually stop riding/working horses but not globally at the same time. The cost of keeping them, scarcity of land and viable alternatives for transport will eventually shrink numbers and it will become less socially acceptable. This is all in progress currently and has been for many years.