Photography etiquette at horse shows

[PipsqueakXy22]

Hi I was just wondering what/ is there any etiquette for photographing at horse shows where there is a professional photographer? I went to a showjumping comp last weekend a couple people from my yard also went plus I knew of a couple of other riders. I have a nice professional type camera, and ended up photographing 6 different riders… the show wasn’t that big either there were only about 6-7 entries over about 6 classes, granted they were each onlt in one or two classes but I still ended up photographing quite a fair chunk of the competitors (rough estimate about 30 competitors total)

I always feel bad because it’s the professional photographers job and livelihood, and I always feel a bit awkward photographing when she’s there, as they probably aren’t as likely to buy photos of her if they can get them from me for free. At the same time photos can be expensive, and it’s something I enjoy doing for friends.

Is there any etiquette for this kind of thing? Do photographers usually mind?

 

[HorseMaid]

I have read somewhere before (may have been on here!) that it isn't the done thing if there's a professional photographer there for exactly the reasons you've listed!

 

[Equi]

you can take photos of your own horse/family/friend (begrudgingly) but taking photos of anyone else is considered highly rude.

 

[[59668]]

I'm a photographer and see this from both sides.
If I'm there in a professional capacity, I wouldn't mind the odd person with a nice camera taking photos of the one person they were with.
If I'm at a show with a friend as a friend I will take photos of her, but only that one person.
To be honest though my pro photos I take of everyone as a photographer are a comp are your standard photos.
If I'm there with a friend they will get them edited in my more portrait/fine art style so might still buy the "regular" photos too.

 

[Keith_Beef]

At the very few competitions and shows I've been to of any kind (TREK, SJ, horseball, football, rugby, athletics, matching band) the pro photographers get the best spots, closest to the action, with the best perspective. That, plus better kit and especially better skills should mean that pictures taken by pro photographers should be much better than any taken by amateurs present... The pros shouldn't really have any reason to think that the amateurs are poaching their business.


The participants are out in a public space, even if the event is held on private land and both participants and spectators have to pay to be present.


Unless it was explicitly stated on the ticket that taking photos was forbidden (perhaps with exceptions like family, fellow team members, etc) I would limit my picture taking only in the sense that I would take pictures that I find interesting. But then again, I'm not going to publish them or use them to illustrate a web site, or use them for any kind of financial gain.

 

[sport horse]

Bear in mind that quite often the professional photographers have paid the organisers a fee to be at the event and to market their photos. In this case they would have every right to be fed up if someone was taking photos and giving/selling them cheaply.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

The way I see it, if it's for a friend or liverymate that's no problem and totally normal, even if you have a nicer camera. If you're taking photos of all/many of the competitors and making them available somewhere that's crossing a line imo if there's a professional photographer.

 

[Birker2020]

A professional company take care of our time lapse and drone photos at work and over the months I've got friendly with the lovely lady photographer. She done some lovely photos of me at work so i could use one for the newsletter i produce on site which was really kind of her.

We were chatting about professional photographers at horse shows, and I asked her this very question the other day as she said its par of the course and one of those things that she doesn't particuarly get wound up about.

I think its worse if you use the image without paying for it. I've put images on the forum before years ago that had the photographers name across them, but i had paid for them, the image was off their website and i hadn't the phone or the knowledge to take a photo and upload it then - I'm still not great all these years later tbh lol

 

[teapot]

Photos of your mates and/or for Instagram is fine.

150/200 images into an online gallery or social media for people to have either free/at a price, absolute no no.

 

[Greylegs]

I can see this from both sides as well. I class myself as very much an amateur photographer, but have attended events in the past to take pics of friends at their request (I do this as. hobby and for free!). I am fortunate to own pro standard equipment, and did have a run in at one event with the resident pro who actually stood in front of me and got quite abusive when they saw me with my gear. I explained (calmly) that I was there to take pics of one person, and they then even approached my friend - who was warming up in the collecting ring at the time - to ask her to confirm I was there at her request. I should say that I had approached the organisers and asked if it was OK to take pics and they said it was.

I also take pics for a local club at their events and, whilst I do my best to get pictures of everyone attending, I have no issue with other people also taking pictures.

The issue is whether you are robbing them of potential income by taking pics of your friends, who would (presumably) prefer to get yours for free rather than paying for images produced by the event pro.

 

[little_critter]

The way I see it, if it's for a friend or liverymate that's no problem and totally normal, even if you have a nicer camera. If you're taking photos of all/many of the competitors and making them available somewhere that's crossing a line imo if there's a professional photographer.

Mind you, OP says nothing about making those photos available to the other (unknown) riders. If they have no way to use / purchase the photos taken of them then no business is being stolen from the pro.

 

[Coblover63]

My husband is an amateur photographer with some beefy equipment and lenses so I always ask him to take pics of me on my horse (obvs ?) If we go anywhere where there's a professional photographer he will always have a quiet word with them to explain that he's just a competitor's husband. It's a courtesy and has never been an issue.

 

[EchoInterrupted]

Mind you, OP says nothing about making those photos available to the other (unknown) riders. If they have no way to use / purchase the photos taken of them then no business is being stolen from the pro.

Agreed, I wasn't talking about OP specifically, just more broadly. From my understanding OP only took photos of people they knew, which I think is fine regardless. I've definitely gone to public events (mostly agility competitions) with photographers at them and taken photos of a lot of competitors/dogs just to practice photography, but those photos would never be made accessible to anyone (ETA except the photos of competitors who I knew personally that I was there hanging out with and taking photos for as a favor)

 

[honetpot]

I know at some of the bigger shows photographers pay for the right to sell photos, and I have spent hundreds of pounds with them over the years.
There are now lots of people who do photography as a hobby, and an extension of their social media, my dad used to have a dark room, now anyone can have a go. Unless they are selling them, I do not see the problem, after all the pro's get the chance to be in the ring and should be able to provide a much better photo.
The standard of mobile phone photos are so high, I do not know how it is possible to police a no photography rule. For our RC it is classed as a public place and people should be aware that photography is taking place. It's very common now for complete strangers to ask you to snap them on their phone.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

I should maybe clarify the 6 riders I took photos of were all friends of mine, I wasn’t trying to take photos of strangers and sell them elsewhere or anything like that, and they did end up putting posts up on Facebook and Instagram but they weren’t professional photos to frame on a wall or anything. Just so happened that I knew a fair chunk of the competitors. I have also photographed at a couple BSJA, pony club and unaffiliated shows myself, but the difference was I was employed by someone and paid hourly, so others taking photos didn’t bother me.
I enjoy photography and when I’m with friend / friends I also follow them around so I can photograph them warming up, with their rosettes, or sometimes just capture nice moments where they’re hugging their horse or something which i think is nice and you don’t get from the professional photographer.
I didn’t actually know photographers paid to be at some shows though. Definitely something I will be more mindful of in future.

 

[miscat]

Since the photographs are taken on private land you need to get permission of the owner before trying to sell photos. If it was in a public place you would be free to sell photos of whatever you want. It has nothing to do with the professional photographer, just the event location owner.

If you do get their permission to sell photos then you can use free sites like http://arethere.photos

 

[Birker2020]

Since the photographs are taken on private land you need to get permission of the owner before trying to sell photos. If it was in a public place you would be free to sell photos of whatever you want. It has nothing to do with the professional photographer, just the event location owner.

If you do get their permission to sell photos then you can use free sites like http://arethere.photos

There aren't a lot of events showing on there.

 

[MagicMelon]

Yes don't do it. Id be annoyed if I were the photographer although the photographers photos are presumably better so hopefully they'd still sell some. But still its not the done thing. Just offer your services at other events? There's loads of small events not covered by a professional that Im sure wouldnt mind you being there.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

i wasn’t selling them or trying to offer a service, I simply took my camera to a show and took photos of people I knew and sent them to them. But I haven’t done it since, as i understand why it’s bad for photographers

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I personally see no problem with it.

Whilst I understand that pro photographers want to make a living, often times many riders cannot afford/justify to pay the £10 for a downloaded image of sub par quality. Often I get just as decent shots screenshotting off my videos.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Some of the best pictures I have of some of my lot were taken by my step dad on a mobile phone. I can count on 1 hand how many professional pictures I have bought in the last 20 years as I don't like any of them enough to justify the cost of them.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I don’t think there’s a problem providing you’re just taking photos for friends!
Not everybody can afford to purchase photos from shows, but that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t have any photos of their day!
i usually always buy a photo from a show even if I’ve had some taken by friend. Normally because the photographer photos are from within the ring and are more professional where as the photos from friends are from the outside the ring

 

[Annagain]

The other reason you should only take photos of friends is permission. As an event organiser, we put signs up when we have pro photographer telling people photos will be taken and made available on the internet for purchasing.

While this is good marketing for the photographer, the main reason is we also include that they should make themselves known to the photographer if they don't want their photo taken / published (this can be important particularly for looked after children or children who are estranged from members of their families and their whereabouts needs to be guarded but also for people who have been in abusive relationships etc).

We have one family locally who can't have photos (or their results for that matter, we use an alias as it's less suspicious than leaving a gap) on the internet at all and the photographer we use knows this. He'll take photos of them but let them see them on his camera on the day and delete them straight away if they don't want any.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I can't see a problem for people to take photos of friends without charge. Professional photographers have the best positions, so good photos will still sale on merit.
Most of my competition photos were taken by my husband because those pictures captured something that a professional missed.

 

[miscat]

There aren't a lot of events showing on there.

It's not really a site for browsing because you probably were not at the events! The photographer uploads pictures and sends you the link. Here's one of mine: https://www.arethere.photos/event?id=14