Picking up contact without giraffe impersonation

[smiggy]

Prefacing this with disclaimers.
I know working into a contact comes from behind and I promise I’m not sawing on her mouth Etc etc
adolescent pony can work really nicely into a light contact but I struggle to start it off.
her natural inclination is to be head up, alert. I can ask her to go long and low fairly easily so walk to stretchy walk on contact is fine. What I struggle with is to ask her to pick up a contact into normal walk from walk or halt. Her first inclination is to giraffe or come back at me.
I’ve never had this before, my others once got the idea of a contact , just soften when asked.
she gives in pretty quickly but I’d rather not have the initial disagreement.
no wolf teeth
mouth regularly checked
bit is ns starter bit.
worth change of bit ?
any tips for exercises etc to help?

 

[LEC]

You just need to do more of it and be disciplined. Be quicker at finding the point they raise their head, experiment with more power from behind, holding more with the hand, half halting etc
I have used a harbridge for up and down transitions on a young horse before if they really don’t get it as effectively teaches them correctly with little influence. I usually only need it 2-3 times and the penny drops.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Hands wide and forwards, squeeze reins and use seat for the transition instead of the rein?

 

[Artax]

Have you ever tried working in-hand with her? If I had this issue (and it isn't a big one - she's just not sure, but I would also guess shes young and possibly a bit heavy on the forehand) I would go back to basics on the ground and work with a bridle. There are some great books if you wanted to read up on it. Although, I did a quick google just now and there seems to be a lot of videos on this now, perhaps it's becoming popular again.

 

[sbloom]

Have you ever tried working in-hand with her? If I had this issue (and it isn't a big one - she's just not sure, but I would also guess shes young and possibly a bit heavy on the forehand) I would go back to basics on the ground and work with a bridle. There are some great books if you wanted to read up on it. Although, I did a quick google just now and there seems to be a lot of videos on this now, perhaps it's becoming popular again.

Agreed, always best to establish the basics from the ground, she doesn't understand contact. I'm not sure it's easy for even riders to understand what contact is, it's definitely not just a softening, the contact should be taken forwards by the horse too...

I disagree that contact really comes from behind, contact itself comes from everything we do, and a horse can be good in the hand even when not driving from behind. Driving from behind can actually be undesirable, in itself...for instance if the shoulders are at all blocked then the horse will be on the forehand and driving more will make it more on the forehand.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would try a bit of counter flexion I find a good exercise is down the Longside of the school, do 4 strides to the inside then 4 to the outside and just repeat a few laps then change the rein, then try some shoulder in and leg yield in walk make sure you get the walk quite active then repeat in trot.


I find if you go in the school and start off with a proper purpose you get there attention quicker, use your warm up walk round to get your horse listening and using there body in much more useful way than just walking round. I have used this with my Arabs they are nosy and can easily be distracted and head up mode is there go to but I find using the walk from the off really gives you the best advantage.

 

[D66]

Check for wolf teeth. Rub your thumbs on the horse’s gums in the gap where the bit sits feeling for any little lump. If you find one discuss with vet or dentist.

 

[smiggy]

Thanks for all the replies
she def doesn’t have wolf teeth, had a really good check for those already.still just about have all my fingers ?
@Artax , was planning on doing some more ground work for various reasons so will look in to that, I think the cobs can book has some useful stuff if I remember correctly
@sbloom , thanks, she does understand a contact and will take it forward, have spent lot of time working on that as her inclination was to tuck. She can get 76% in an intro with nice comments about the contact so when it’s good it’s good . It’s like @Pinkvboots says with the Arabs, it’s a distraction thing . One minute it’s good and the next it’s “ ooooh butterfly 1 mile away “
I just want to say come on , here we go and work nicely without the giraffe bit that sometimes goes with it. I say softenening because that’s the feel I want as in I pick up reins and they round and soften ready to work properly.
will try walk stuff tomorrow pinkyboots, sounds perfect .
thanks again for all replies x

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thanks for all the replies
she def doesn’t have wolf teeth, had a really good check for those already.still just about have all my fingers ?
@Artax , was planning on doing some more ground work for various reasons so will look in to that, I think the cobs can book has some useful stuff if I remember correctly
@sbloom , thanks, she does understand a contact and will take it forward, have spent lot of time working on that as her inclination was to tuck. She can get 76% in an intro with nice comments about the contact so when it’s good it’s good . It’s like @Pinkvboots says with the Arabs, it’s a distraction thing . One minute it’s good and the next it’s “ ooooh butterfly 1 mile away “
I just want to say come on , here we go and work nicely without the giraffe bit that sometimes goes with it. I say softenening because that’s the feel I want as in I pick up reins and they round and soften ready to work properly.
will try walk stuff tomorrow pinkyboots, sounds perfect .
thanks again for all replies x

It took me alot of years to get one of mine to stay in a consistent contact his still nosy and easily distracted, but I have learnt so many tricks over the years and know him so well I am always a step ahead of him ?

His still quite spooky as well it makes for interesting schooling at times.

 

[Artax]

Agreed, always best to establish the basics from the ground, she doesn't understand contact. I'm not sure it's easy for even riders to understand what contact is, it's definitely not just a softening, the contact should be taken forwards by the horse too...

I disagree that contact really comes from behind, contact itself comes from everything we do, and a horse can be good in the hand even when not driving from behind. Driving from behind can actually be undesirable, in itself...for instance if the shoulders are at all blocked then the horse will be on the forehand and driving more will make it more on the forehand.

I totally love this statement - fundamental and something that eluded me for many years.

 

[sbloom]

So I'd say the problem isn't contact, it's attention/distraction . So many factors feed into that, and of course much is personality of the horse, but much is also about them using their parasympathetic nervous system, making them more looky and reactive, and there are all sorts of approaches that can help with this.

 

[smiggy]

@sbloom , sorry don’t know how to quote but yes exactly that !
any ideas where to look for these approaches would be much appreciated.

 

[sbloom]

The Celeste Leilani Lazari masterclass I often recommend would help with that and lots else (it really is a gamechanger, for horses, and our handling/understanding of them, the TRT progamme is focused on that kind of thing, Warwick Schiller, all sorts of behaviourists have programmes that may help (search on reactive or spooky horse).

 

[sbloom]

@sbloom , sorry don’t know how to quote but yes exactly that !

For quote there's a button at the bottom of the post, if you only want to quote and reply, click reply, or quote if you want to quote more than one post, then make sure you follow the pop up and click on the red button before actually typing your reply. Careful not to delete the square brackets around each one if you try and edit

 

[Ossy2]

The easy in theory hard in practice solution is to pick her up from the seat and leg, not the hand. Mine was like that but I had to learn to collect and pick the shoulders and neck up even just slightly first before I even shortened the reins so I’m not shortening / pulling on the reins as the first action. Also when in the stretch or free walk try to maintain a connection to the rein, free walk on a long rein is just that it’s not free walk on a loose rein with no contact, so maybe try a little less stretch but keeping a contact so you don’t have as far to gather her up from to start with and build on that.

 

[smiggy]

The Celeste Leilani Lazari masterclass I often recommend would help with that and lots else (it really is a gamechanger, for horses, and our handling/understanding of them, the TRT progamme is focused on that kind of thing, Warwick Schiller, all sorts of behaviourists have programmes that may help (search on reactive or spooky horse).

Thanks
will look that up
trt have been looking at, just put off by it all being online subscription as I’m rubbish at remembering to actually use it !

 

[sbloom]

Thanks
will look that up
trt have been looking at, just put off by it all being online subscription as I’m rubbish at remembering to actually use it !

Much of the good stuff is, you'll need to seek out the really good practitioners near you if you need hands on help. I would look for someone, ideally, that does postural work as well as some behavioural work, a combo would be ideal, you might even find a ridden coach who can tackle it with that "filter", not looking at it as a "take a firmer contact, make him/her round" issue. Where are you?

 

[smiggy]

Much of the good stuff is, you'll need to seek out the really good practitioners near you if you need hands on help. I would look for someone, ideally, that does postural work as well as some behavioural work, a combo would be ideal, you might even find a ridden coach who can tackle it with that "filter", not looking at it as a "take a firmer contact, make him/her round" issue. Where are you?

East Sussex.
I had a lesson with another instructor last week and she said she thought the underlying issue was that she wasn’t in front of my leg. Have been working on that out hacking this week.
wayne bushnell is nearish and have heard good things .
yes she is a mare and take a firmer contact doesn’t work, just makes her pissy and not what I want either !

 

[Goldenstar]

The thing with training a horse is that you have to show the horse the way .
The correct way to go is easiest for the horse .
A horse who is raising its head and evading the contact does so for a reason if it walks calmly on loose rein then and then puts its head up when you start to take more contact something has gone wrong at some point .
If a horse like this dropped onto this yard them I would be watching this horse for a few days and trying to get a handle on where it is in its mind .
I would look at its muscles to understand how its posture may be effecting how its approaching work .
Then I would make a plan to strengthen the horse and get it to trust me with its training.
This would probably be based around working on the ground with the horse on a lunge line getting it to lower its neck and bring its back up and thus get a stronger back its my view that horse who raise their heads above the line of control when you take up contact have weak backs .
I would keep riding along side another horse to give it confidence .
Of course you can’t tell people how to train a horse without seeing the horse and theres masses of things I would try in your situation .
You need to get a decent pair of eyes on the ground to help you .

 

[smiggy]

The thing with training a horse is that you have to show the horse the way .
The correct way to go is easiest for the horse .
A horse who is raising its head and evading the contact does so for a reason if it walks calmly on loose rein then and then puts its head up when you start to take more contact something has gone wrong at some point .
If a horse like this dropped onto this yard them I would be watching this horse for a few days and trying to get a handle on where it is in its mind .
I would look at its muscles to understand how its posture may be effecting how its approaching work .
Then I would make a plan to strengthen the horse and get it to trust me with its training.
This would probably be based around working on the ground with the horse on a lunge line getting it to lower its neck and bring its back up and thus get a stronger back its my view that horse who raise their heads above the line of control when you take up contact have weak backs .
I would keep riding along side another horse to give it confidence .
Of course you can’t tell people how to train a horse without seeing the horse and theres masses of things I would try in your situation .
You need to get a decent pair of eyes on the ground to help you .

I have two lessons a week ?
maybe I didn’t phrase it right, the issue isn’t so much of an issue once we get started . We can do a nice test or lesson for thirty minutes working round and on a soft contact. It’s just the initial “ right let’s get started “ that I would like to avoid that minute or two of argument . equally once we have started working nicely, if she gets distracted and starts gawping at the world, I can get her attention back quickly without an argument.
there is some tension and spookiness, I think to an extent that’s just her . She is better some venues than others.
she is pretty confident hacking, always solo hack as livery at home and Billy no mates so she has been going out by herself since she was four.a bit spooky and can be loopy but nothing drastic, and she is a Welsh mare so the dragon is occasionally unleashed but rarely does she actually worry about stuff.
am definitely going to look in to some ground work as don’t want the tension to affect her way of going.

 

[smiggy]

Looky, not loopy ?

 

[Artax]

The easy in theory hard in practice solution is to pick her up from the seat and leg, not the hand. Mine was like that but I had to learn to collect and pick the shoulders and neck up even just slightly first before I even shortened the reins so I’m not shortening / pulling on the reins as the first action. Also when in the stretch or free walk try to maintain a connection to the rein, free walk on a long rein is just that it’s not free walk on a loose rein with no contact, so maybe try a little less stretch but keeping a contact so you don’t have as far to gather her up from to start with and build on that.

I'm intrigued by this... genuine question - how do you do that? Have you got any practical tips on picking up with seat and leg?

 

[SEL]

Thanks
will look that up
trt have been looking at, just put off by it all being online subscription as I’m rubbish at remembering to actually use it !

You can dip in and out

For the money she (& a couple of other people she has run the site) are really generous with their time.

 

[millitiger]

I have similar with mine.
If you try and pick him up too fast or if he has a few days off, the contact can be terrible and hard.

I make sure if he has time off, we go hacking for a few days before back in the school.
I walk on a loose rein for at least 10 minutes before picking up the contact.
I have taught him to really stretch, so we start the contact with nose almost on the floor. Then I use circles and leg yielding to make sure I am using my legs and really focus on rib bend and in front of aids. Miraculously this makes contact much nicer!
I also do plenty of walk breaks on a long rein during our sessions so he gets used to contact being picked up and put down and he simply needs to switch himself on a bit quicker and not take a lap of the arena!