picture weird frog growth

coffeeandabagel

coffeeandabagel

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This is the horse my daughter has on loan - he has horrid feet. Deep clefts in the frog and heel - and on this foot extra frog (I think its frog) growing up and sticking out.

Whats going on? What can we do to make him more comfy since surely he cant be happy with mud getting in the frog like that - he is out 20 hrs a day - just coming in to dry feet out for the afternoon.

He is lame at the moment just as she tried to get him into work after getting his saddle sorted out.

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Also coronet so wet its all flabby and hanging over the hoof - not a good picture. Should she worry about that?
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He is shedding frog, as many horses, including my three, are at the moment. The shedding is no problem and normal and you can cut that bit off.

The deep central sulcusses are a bigger problem. I treat them with sudocrem daily and have a lot of success with that, but they need the heel to decontract to really resolve them and it is very difficult to do that with shoes on.

That foot is very contracted at the heel - have you spoken to your farrier about it at all?
 
Someone else posted a pic of a scary, fizzy looking coronet band like that around Christmas time, and apparently it went back down after a day or so in the dry. Have to say, not having seen one before it'd have sent me into a bit of a tizz - ew!
 
He isnt mine but my daughter (an adult) has him on loan. I have advised her to take the shoes off since he takes them off himself with great regularity and even I thought his heels were the wrong shape.

Her farrier says they are contracted but not sheared and thinks they are fine
 
cptrayes said:
The deep central sulcusses are a bigger problem. I treat them with sudocrem daily and have a lot of success with that, but they need the heel to decontract to really resolve them and it is very difficult to do that with shoes on.
?
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She has tried the manuka honey paste from Red Horse and other stuff - not sudocrem - but I just called her and suggested it! Thanks
 
He said they bulbs of the heel didnt move independently - and told her thats what sheared meant. (she thinks they do and are!)

She has taken his hinds off and will think about fronts coming off.

TBH she doesnt seem to have good farriers round there. If anyone can recommend one in central Cornwall please let me know.
 
The hoof looks very contracted to me too. The back of the hoof is very tall and squashed pinching the frog and I think exacerbating the deep central cleft. The hoof needs releasing so it can flex, expand and wear the heels so the frog can have ground contact and stimulation to strengthen the back of the hoof further.
Those are my non professional thoughts.

ps.I think the frog is like that because it is over grown, stretching down to try and reach the ground to get the stimulation it needs. The over grown frog tissue is thin and weak and has folded over.
 
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I think if he left the shoes off they probably would move independently, especially if his heels weren't so unnaturally long. They are terribly contracted feet. My experience would be that even if she goes barefoot they will take years to expand properly if they ever do. I am just going into year three now with a young horse I bought and his shoes that I took off in January 2011 would still almost fit. His central sulcusses are still too deep and his frog is only just beginning to approach properly sitting on the ground.

On the other hand, I have also found that horses with contracted tin can feet often seem to come straight out of shoes and not notice that they are gone, because their soles are so far off the floor!


I can hardly believe her farrier saying that there is nothing wrong with those, from the photos you've put up.
 
He didnt say nothing wrong - but he wasnt worried about it.

I dont think my daughter will have him longer than this summer since thats when the current loan agreement ends - and he has not really been what she expected so a long drawn out rehab wouldn't work for her. Shame since it might work for him! At least she can reccomend the owner tries it although from the sounds of it she wasnt that interested.
 
Re sheared heels, I still don't understand the definition fully despite having it explained to me so can't comment on that aspect.

If she decides to remove shoes I think a period of taking it easy, possibly no riding might be in order until it is clear how the horse is coping.
 
Ditto rubbish contracted heals etc.

But in the first pic, what's that wormy bit stick straight out, where the hairline meets the bulb? Looks a bit like a massively overgrown ergot but in the wrong place. Is it frog-like and can you just pull it off?
 
He didnt say nothing wrong - but he wasnt worried about it.

TBH she doesnt seem to have good farriers round there. If anyone can recommend one in central Cornwall please let me know.
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Hopefully someone can recommend a new Farrier or a trimmer - there must be a good Farrier somewhere in Cornwall.
 
Kallibear said:
Ditto rubbish contracted heals etc.

But in the first pic, what's that wormy bit stick straight out, where the hairline meets the bulb? Looks a bit like a massively overgrown ergot but in the wrong place. Is it frog-like and can you just pull it off?
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Apparently sometimes the farrier cuts it off and sometimes he doesnt. It soft and squishy. But then everything about his feet are at the moment!

As to thrush - I am going to order some Red Horse Field paste for her and him.

Farriers- you would hope there are some good ones - she has lots of horsey contacts but hasnt managed to find someone she really trusts yet.
 
Hi people

Coffeeandabagel's daughter here.

Just a few things.. the vet told his owner to just put purple spray into the crevices every day to stop thrush. I use a suringe (not a needle one) to get it right in the crack. I have also used Redhorse Sole cleanse, Vetericyn and other thrush products to keep it clean and was hoping the crack would heal up. I tried Red Horse Hoof Stuff for 3 months, poked deep into the cracks to stop muck getting in and help heal them. Nothing worked but he hasn't ever had visable / smell-able thrush in them. From reading more into it i have come to the conclusion that they wont 'heal up' until his heels relax back down.

They don't seem to be painful when pressing them or moving the heels but, understandably, he is not keen on me poking Hoof Stuff down the cracks :(

My farrier's advice was to just keep the cracks clean and thrush free. His owner's farrier (a different guy) said the same thing, as did the vet.

I not really comfortable leaving him like this though as if it can be sorted then i want to sort it!

They look really bad in the photo, maybe because im used to seeing them they don't actually look that extreme in real life?!
 
Bryony&Ty said:
Hi people

Coffeeandabagel's daughter here.

From reading more into it i have come to the conclusion that they wont 'heal up' until his heels relax back down.
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Hi!

You've got it in one. They don't actually "heal up". What they do is widen out, until the bottom of the crevice finally reaches a point where it is nearly, or totally, ground bearing. But it can take a long time and some of them never get there. Having said that, I've seen a number of horses with contracted feet like his go barefoot really easily. He looks like he's got great horn and solid heels, which will help a lot if you want to try it.
 
Sticking my neck out the frog doesn't look thrushy to me. I'm a thrush fanatic too. :o As I said I think it's overgrown frog material and that has folded over and is black maybe due to thrush but it's old/useless material anyway. The crevice looks clean and tight (pinched) and if it could expand and the true frog get comfortable stimulation I'm sure it would help a huge amount.
 
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ps. Being sensitive in the crack is a sign of thrush though and some use gauze coated with sudocrem to floss the crack. That might be worth a try.
Allowing the hoof to decontract will open that crack anyway. There is no other way to do it but remove the shoe I'm afraid imo.
 
Thrush won't be the only cause of his heel pain.

If you imagine the distance between each heel 'corner' SHOULD be, say, 4-5" then think how much everything inside is currently being crushed and pinched. It prob feel a bit like trying to squeeze your foot into shoes 2 sizes too small. Then because they're sore he doesn't land heel first as nature designed so messes up the pivot points and shock absorption over the tendons and navicular bone, making them sore too. It becomes a vicious cycle culminating in a horse with 'navicular disease'

Honestly, Id just take his shoes off. They're only making him worse. He's lame already anyways so can only improve. Treating the symptoms not the cause won't help and it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than going down remedial showing route, which rarely works anyways. I too don't think he's got much thrush going on in there and doubt thats the cause of his lameness.
 
Thanks for all of this really useful stuff everyone - I would love to see him with shoes off asap. Even if just goes back to his owner 50% - 75% better thats good for him and we will know we have done our best by him.

I hope Bryony will find some boots to help him initially - I feel a donation from The Bank of Mum coming on!


We will make sure the pics get on here!
 
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Kallibear said:
Honestly, Id just take his shoes off. They're only making him worse. He's lame already anyways so can only improve.
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To be fair, Ive had him on loan since July last year and his feet have been the same the whole time and this is the first sign of lameness.

The lameness he was showing at the weekend i honestly dont think is due to the contracted heels, id say it was either the fact he lives in a bog that is so muddy he could have wrenched it OR he was stiff and sore as he is 14yrs (but his legs tell the story of a hard life!) and as i have just got his saddle reflocked and sorted i have just started working him again, i could have asked to much too soon.

BUT i take your point and agree. The farrier is coming this afternoon to see another horse at the yard so i will ask what his plan of action is and if i don't get a satisfactory response i will look at having the fronts off and getting a new farrier.
 
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