Pictures - Ten days on Metformin (EMS/laminitis)

[Wagtail]

Just thought I'd post a progress report for anyone who is considering using metformin to try to combat EMS. My mare is now sound without bute and if she stays sound, can go out again after a few days.

First pic, taken just before she was struck down with laminitis. She weigh taped at 570 kg. I had taken my eye off the ball somewhat because she was off the grass and only being turned out in the sand menage. Thing that triggered it was she was hogging the hay feeders and getting the lion share of the haylage.

Then taken the day she started on the metformin. She had already lost a fair amount and weigh taped at 550 kg

And finally, taken yesterday after 10 days on the metformin. Hard to see in the pic, but I am literally seeing her fat pads melting away. Weigh tapes at 525 kg.

So I think I can say that the metformin is working!

 

[Bernster]

I know it's not always weight related but in all those she is thinner than a fair few I've seen ! Glad she's on the mend. I've not comes across EMS before

 

[Leg_end]

Well done!

 

[AbFab]

I've been on metformin for 10yrs for PCOS and I've lost nowhere near 25kg!!

She's looking loads better, here's hoping she stays sound!

 

[Gingerwitch]

I am so so plesed for you - it is great news, and i am so pleased you were brave enough to speak to your vet about the test - as i know how worried you were.

It has made me shed a tear or two looking at your photo's I just wished it could have been my lad that had improved so much and was looking forward to going out - but what was meant to be, was meant to be.

But all i can say is way to go Waggie - i really admire your strength and courage and long may your beautiful little mare be around for you to love for many years to come

GW
x

 

[Fransurrey]

I know it's not always weight related but in all those she is thinner than a fair few I've seen ! Glad she's on the mend. I've not comes across EMS before

That's what I was thinking! Henry is suspected of EMS, so I manage him as such, but he still has fat pads and a 'fallen crest'. Hmmm, maybe I should call the vet back and discuss this!

 

[Partoow]

There is a lot of evidence that Metformin has NO real effect ( see American research ) there is no evidence that it is effectively metabolised by the equine.
It is expensive
I have successfully treated a PRE ( very prone) with EMS and found that the use of a good quality high potency MgO better at improving the insulin receptors.
Your success is most likely due to your management change, I expect soaked hay , no sugar feed etc.
See info on a product well research in US called HEIRO, just the research papers are interesting and it has had extra ordinary effectiveness on a wide range of affected equines
I hope your horse continues to improve.

 

[Wagtail]

I know it's not always weight related but in all those she is thinner than a fair few I've seen ! Glad she's on the mend. I've not comes across EMS before

Thank you. Yes she was never what you would call fat. In fact from certain angles you could see her ribs even before the weight loss. I do think it is a trigger for her though, when she gets over 550 kg.

Well done!

Thank you.

I've been on metformin for 10yrs for PCOS and I've lost nowhere near 25kg!!

She's looking loads better, here's hoping she stays sound!

Thank you. Do you mean you take the metformin yourself? Is it for diabetes?

I am so so plesed for you - it is great news, and i am so pleased you were brave enough to speak to your vet about the test - as i know how worried you were.

It has made me shed a tear or two looking at your photo's I just wished it could have been my lad that had improved so much and was looking forward to going out - but what was meant to be, was meant to be.

But all i can say is way to go Waggie - i really admire your strength and courage and long may your beautiful little mare be around for you to love for many years to come

GW
x

Thank you GW. What happened to your lad was so unfair. It was tragic but you did everything humanly possible to save him and he was losing weight. I know I must never let my guard down again with my girl. But sometimes things happen and we have no control whatsoever over them. She could relapse right now, despite all my hard work. It is the way this horrible disease works.

That's what I was thinking! Henry is suspected of EMS, so I manage him as such, but he still has fat pads and a 'fallen crest'. Hmmm, maybe I should call the vet back and discuss this!

My vet wanted to do a glucose test on my mare right in the middle of her lami attack. I was really worried it would make it worse. Although the vets thought I was being overly cautious, they allowed me to put her on the metformin without a definitive diagnosis.

There is a lot of evidence that Metformin has NO real effect ( see American research ) there is no evidence that it is effectively metabolised by the equine.
It is expensive
I have successfully treated a PRE ( very prone) with EMS and found that the use of a good quality high potency MgO better at improving the insulin receptors.
Your success is most likely due to your management change, I expect soaked hay , no sugar feed etc.
See info on a product well research in US called HEIRO, just the research papers are interesting and it has had extra ordinary effectiveness on a wide range of affected equines
I hope your horse continues to improve.

I have had my mare down to 525 kg before but her fat pads remained. This time, they are melting away before my eyes, especially either side of her withers and across the top of her rump. So I think this is down to the metformin. Usually she just loses weight over her ribs. This time her ribs do not look any thinner, but she is much softer where her fat pads were.

 

[Gingerwitch]

" I have had my mare down to 525 kg before but her fat pads remained. This time, they are melting away before my eyes, especially either side of her withers and across the top of her rump. So I think this is down to the metformin. Usually she just loses weight over her ribs. This time her ribs do not look any thinner, but she is much softer where her fat pads were.[/QUOTE]

Can you send us some ??? being on box rest myself i think i am gaining everthing she is loosing
GW
x

 

[be positive]

I know she is standing eating in the recent photo but her stance has changed, the hind legs are further back, her weight is more on her forehand suggesting feet are feeling less sore and the pads over her loins seem to have gone.

She looks much happier.

 

[amandap]

I know she is standing eating in the recent photo but her stance has changed, the hind legs are further back, her weight is more on her forehand suggesting feet are feeling less sore and the pads over her loins seem to have gone.

She looks much happier.

I noticed that and I agree. Onwards and upwards. x

I do think the response to any treatment/supplementation/dietary changes is very individual and imo you have to be guided by relief of symptoms in this complex area that isn't well understood.

 

[Wagtail]

I know she is standing eating in the recent photo but her stance has changed, the hind legs are further back, her weight is more on her forehand suggesting feet are feeling less sore and the pads over her loins seem to have gone.

She looks much happier.

Thank you. Yes, that's a very good point! I had been noticing that in all the early photographs that her hind legs are quite under her. Of course the reason is obvious now you point it out.

I noticed that and I agree. Onwards and upwards. x

I do think the response to any treatment/supplementation/dietary changes is very individual and imo you have to be guided by relief of symptoms in this complex area that isn't well understood.

Thanks. She really wants to go out now. Hopefully, in a day or two I can let her out in the arena with supervision for 30 minutes or so. Trouble is, they always go silly after box rest and I don't want to do anything too soon.

 

[Shysmum]

You really can see a difference - well done

 

[Wagtail]

You really can see a difference - well done

Thanks, SM. I hadn't noticed the fat pads over her loins had disappeared until Be Positive mentioned it. It's so useful having other people look at the pictures.

 

[AbFab]

Thank you. Do you mean you take the metformin yourself? Is it for diabetes?

I do take it myself but it's not for diabetes. I have polycystic ovaries and they use metformin to treat it. I do happen to have type 1 diabetes too (insulin controlled), but that's just because I like to be a medical freak The 2 conditions are pretty much unheard of together. Just my luck!

 

[Wagtail]

I do take it myself but it's not for diabetes. I have polycystic ovaries and they use metformin to treat it. I do happen to have type 1 diabetes too (insulin controlled), but that's just because I like to be a medical freak The 2 conditions are pretty much unheard of together. Just my luck!

You poor thing. No wonder you find it hard to shift weight. Both those conditions cause weight gain. You look nice and slim in you sig though.

 

[ecb89]

I take metformin too I also have pcos and insulin resistance which is what the metformin is for

 

[dianchi]

Is there an exact opposite of this? I could do with those extra kg on my TB

 

[Wagtail]

Is there an exact opposite of this? I could do with those extra kg on my TB

I personally would much prefer to deal with a poor doer than a good doer. Both can be very expensive though!

 

[Gingerwitch]

Check with your vet before you give any sedaline to take the edge off her when you to - you may or may not want to do this.....especially as she will be feeling so fantactic.

But the senior vet did say he was reluctant to prescibe sedaline to horses with laminitc conditions as it could possibly cause some trouble - i cant for the hell of me think just what - as my head was a bit mashed at the time - but he said occasionaly use ok - but not frequent.

But yes everyone is right - the stance is vastly different

gw
x

 

[Wagtail]

Check with your vet before you give any sedaline to take the edge off her when you to - you may or may not want to do this.....especially as she will be feeling so fantactic.

But the senior vet did say he was reluctant to prescibe sedaline to horses with laminitc conditions as it could possibly cause some trouble - i cant for the hell of me think just what - as my head was a bit mashed at the time - but he said occasionaly use ok - but not frequent.

But yes everyone is right - the stance is vastly different

gw
x

That's really odd as sedalin/acp is often prescribed in acute laminitic stages because it dialates blood vessels and improves circulation to the laminae. Interesting.

 

[BlackRider]

You must be so pleased at how much better she's looking, well done for giving the metformin a go x

 

[Cuffey]

My vet agrees with Wagtails vet in prescribing Sedalin for laminitis for the same reasons

 

[AbFab]

You poor thing. No wonder you find it hard to shift weight. Both those conditions cause weight gain. You look nice and slim in you sig though.

Aw thanks Haha it was hell as a teenage girl but I seem to have cracked it now. I'll never be a skinny person but I'm happy at 10.5st and 5ft8! If I could've lost 25kg in 10 days though that would've been quite good

 

[Wagtail]

You must be so pleased at how much better she's looking, well done for giving the metformin a go x

Thank you. Yes, I am really pleased. I am going to give her half an hour out in the arena today and gradually build up the time she has out. For the past two days I have stopped soaking the marksway haylage and she has stayed sound. I am going to keep her on this now, carefully measured out. It's going to cost around 3 times as much as hay or the large bale haylage, but knowing it is less than 3% sugar makes me feel happier.

 

[Little Fat Pony]

She's looking very good, especially as 10 days isn't a very long time - well done!

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks, She has unfortunately now taken a dislike to her pro hoof. She eats her evening meal that has the metformin and micronised linseed in it, but not her moreing feed that has the metformin and pro hoof in it. Hmmm, going to have to rethink this one now! Anyone know a hoof supplement that is just as effective as pro hoof, but more palatable? She was eating it at first due to the mint I put in but now it's a no go, even though I still put the mint in.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Thanks, She has unfortunately now taken a dislike to her pro hoof. She eats her evening meal that has the metformin and micronised linseed in it, but not her moreing feed that has the metformin and pro hoof in it. Hmmm, going to have to rethink this one now! Anyone know a hoof supplement that is just as effective as pro hoof, but more palatable? She was eating it at first due to the mint I put in but now it's a no go, even though I still put the mint in.

Arhhh - shes better then isnt she

I would not worry for a few days - if she is eating her Metaform then i really would not be concerened - she obviously is not wanting it. - or she is pushing her luck and wants some NICE stuff - carrotts - sugar beet - calm and condition - apples, now that she is better?

What type of supplement to do you want her to have? maybe mix with mint or a bit of garlic ?

Did she get out today ? and if so how did it go?

GW
x

 

[Wagtail]

Arhhh - shes better then isnt she

I would not worry for a few days - if she is eating her Metaform then i really would not be concerened - she obviously is not wanting it. - or she is pushing her luck and wants some NICE stuff - carrotts - sugar beet - calm and condition - apples, now that she is better?

What type of supplement to do you want her to have? maybe mix with mint or a bit of garlic ?

Did she get out today ? and if so how did it go?

GW
x

Yes, she went out for an hour in the arena today and she was not silly. She judt sent her time letting the three geldings bite her over the fence and squealed every time. The foal thought it was great having such a stationary and noisy target.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Yes, she went out for an hour in the arena today and she was not silly. She judt sent her time letting the three geldings bite her over the fence and squealed every time. The foal thought it was great having such a stationary and noisy target.