pin fired

fizz-tally

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roo is a well known ex racer who was retired after both his front suspensorys went , we were told he was pin fired & looks like he has been.
he got a mot by the vet yesterday who gave him a clean bill of health,but she said she doesnt think he had been pin fired



what do you think??

he was done 4 years ago,this pic was taken in august just after he walked of the lorry
 

Lucy_Ally

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Looks more like he's been bar-fired to me.

ETS: Sorry just seen the other post!

Pin fired is where hot needles are put into the tendon, bar fired is where hot rods are put across the back of the tendon on the skin.
 

miller

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Definitely Bar - OH's mare is bar fired and hasn't had a problem since - had ongoing tendon issues before the firing though even with 2 years rest in field
 

Stella

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[ QUOTE ]
Definitely Bar - OH's mare is bar fired and hasn't had a problem since - had ongoing tendon issues before the firing though even with 2 years rest in field

[/ QUOTE ]How is it said to benefit a horse, it sounds archaic to me
 

ann-jen

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The pin/bar firing alledgedly is supposed to help by setting up an inflammatory response which some people believe accelerates healing. Its is more likely that the only way it helps is by causing the horse so much pain that it completely rests the leg and that is what aids healing. There is no scientific evidence to support pin or bar firing and it is a gross misconduct for a vet to perform it.
 

Lucy_Ally

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[ QUOTE ]
The pin/bar firing alledgedly is supposed to help by setting up an inflammatory response which some people believe accelerates healing. Its is more likely that the only way it helps is by causing the horse so much pain that it completely rests the leg and that is what aids healing. There is no scientific evidence to support pin or bar firing and it is a gross misconduct for a vet to perform it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely, it amazes me how many horses are still fired. For those that think it works, just imagine if you pulled your achilles tendon having red hot pokers put on the skin! Any takers?!
 

miller

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The horse in question was sound on 1 bute a day after the op and cantered up the ramp straight after it - tbh from her point of view it was that or bullet - not saying I agree with it, was before I was with OH but answering honestly the horse has been sound since and is back in full work - prior to it she had 2 years off after initial strike injury (box rest and field rest as prescribed) came steadily back into work and another hole appeared, had another 2 years off (1 with a foal) and same thing happened when brought into work - too late for carbon implants and vet suggested it as last resort (mare would not happily be a field ornament or brood mare and after 3 months of soul searching decided to go with it (as I said nothing to do with me - not sure I would have done it) mare came back on same day, 1 bute a day, box rest for 8 weeks then turned out for 18 months on 200 acres farm.
She is now back in full work and has been sound longer than any other time post injury - not saying it'll never go again but she's certainly had another 2 years of pampered life and hopefully many more to come.

As I said - from what I'd heard about firing prior to this I wouldn't have even considered it but on seeing her I must admit it's opened my eyes.

Is it any more barbaric than riding schools using horses on 3/4 sachets bute a day to keep them sound enough to work?
 

Lucy_Ally

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Sorry to break it to you but it won't have been the firing that helped, it will have been the rest. Firing doesn't work, how can it? Tendon research has shown that the inflammatory process during injury is not useful in promoting tendon healing in fact the opposite so why would creating a false inflammatory response help in any way shape or form? If firing worked then why is there still be such controversy over it and continued research into new therapies? Bar firing and blistering is even more ludicrous as all you are doing is setting up and inflamatory reaction in the skin.

As I said before, if you strained your achilles tendon would you

a) Rest and take anti-inflammatories, with gentle return to exercise

or

b) Let some witch doctor place red hot pokers on your legs

Your decision, I know in my own mind which is more barbaric!
 

miller

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Lucy - as I said it wasn't my decision and I wouldn't have done it - the mare had 2 lots of 2 years off and both times came back not right - had 18 months off oafter firing and has been sound since - only reporting what has happened - like I said it may/may not go again and it's not something I would have had done (was not with OH at that point!)
 

Lucy_Ally

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Sorry, I get a little heated on this subject as there are so many mistruths about tendon treatments. The only thing proven to work is rest, gentle return to exercise and lots and lots of time!
 

the watcher

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Looks like bar firing. I have owned two horses in the past who had this done before I bought them, and stayed sound, know others who have just had rest and have broken down again. Regular contact with racing yards means I have seen quite a few. I think there is an arguement for it, in some cases just because a treatment appears to be barbaric doesn't always mean that it will not work - kind of takes us back to the injection or bullet arguement.
 

Lucy_Ally

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[ QUOTE ]
I think there is an arguement for it, in some cases just because a treatment appears to be barbaric doesn't always mean that it will not work - kind of takes us back to the injection or bullet arguement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really sure how method of euthanasia and tendon firing equate!


I think the thing that amazes me is that so many people have such a basic lack of equine anatomy an physiology that they think this might work
How is placing a hot rod on the skin going to have any impact on something like the suspensory ligament? Since it is found next to the cannon bone under the deep and superficial flexor tendons, so in order to illicit the inflammatory response you would have to burn through the skin and the overlying tendons before you even got anywhere deep enough!

If something looks barbaric - then it is barbaric, hence why we don't do major surgery on people without anaesthetics anymore....
 

equibabe20

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Hi one of my horses at work has been pin fired, he's an ex-windsor grey and pulled the gold coaches. He was retired due his tendons being completly messed up he's lame most of the time now
he's grey and has black dots all up and down his front legs
 

Stella

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I must say that, based on what I've read on both sides in this thread, from a physiological point of view, it makes no sense at all, especailly if the tendon its supposed to treat is deep in the leg beneith other structures! Surely it could only benefit the horse via some form of witchcraft and we should be beyond that.
 

runaway

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[ QUOTE ]
Looks like bar firing. I have owned two horses in the past who had this done before I bought them, and stayed sound, know others who have just had rest and have broken down again. Regular contact with racing yards means I have seen quite a few. I think there is an arguement for it, in some cases just because a treatment appears to be barbaric doesn't always mean that it will not work - kind of takes us back to the injection or bullet arguement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can totally see your connection to the bullet injection arguement and this topic "watcher". It's a personal view as the b/i question is.

I have a 22yr old ex racer who was bar fired in Ireland before he was 9 (when I got him) and brought to the UK. He's rarely had any lameness problems and then it's been connected to something other than his tendons. But I am not saying I agree or disagree with it. I was not his owner when he was fired so cannot comment on any part of the process.

I have been lead to believe that the process of firing is intended to a) increase the healing process due to the exaggerated "injury" caused by the firing as it is an invasion of the tissue instead of being solely the tendon pulled and b) the additional "injury" caused means that the healing creates a thicker than normal layer of new tissue which adds more support to the injured tendon. (not a professional opinion just info I have gathered over the years) Believe now the process of firing is illegal, certainly in this country.

It would have been interesting if research had been carried out on fired and none fired horses to see if the "it's the rest that's healed them" agruement stood true or if there was any "support" for firing.
 

wilder

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definately bar fired, my boy has been pin fired and it is exactley what it says it looks like white dots going down the leg , definately barbaric it is the rest not the firing what heals the leg and it is illegal in this country usually the horse are sent to ireland where it isn,t illegal, they also do it to strengthen tendons otter didn,t have any tendon problem but he is pacer and it was done to strengthen his tendons for trotting on the roads which to me is even more barbaric
 

puddicat

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Quote: It would have been interesting if research had been carried out on fired and none fired horses to see if the "it's the rest that's healed them" agruement stood true or if there was any "support" for firing.

It has been, in the 1970s, and it showed firing doesn't have any beneficial effect - it was the research that resulted in the practice being outlawed by the veterinary profession in the UK.
 

runaway

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Just found Lucy_Spring's post mentioning the same as what I've just put whoops I'm so slow with these things


Think we must be getting watched!!


An article on firing has been published in H&H this last thursday. Contradictory to what I believed it has not been banned. It's worth a read.
 
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