Pissy 4 Year Old Mare - Training Tips?

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Steph&Zafira

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Hi There,

I have a 4 year old Arab/Mustang Mix. I've had her since she was a year and a half. She came from an abusive home-not beaten but not handled or cared for properly (ring worm, overgrown toes, no hay, in rough shape, etc). She was very mean when I got her but with desensitizing techniques and lots of stern yet positive reinforcements her groundwork was completed (although always continueing). I've been riding her for a year and a few months. She is content to w/t/c on the trail, happy as can be although sometimes doesnt listen but still ears up moving forward, but when in the arena and asked to work it is a completely different story-she is constantly ear pinning, tail swishing and letting out little bucks of disapproval.

First things first-I have had 2 different vets, 2 different farriers and a chiro out-The horse is fine-no pain-nothing uneven-nothing needing to be adjusted. They all conclude-in different words of course-that shes just got a hell of an attitude.

So I hired a coach. He gives me lessons on how to work with her and he rides her every 2 months to see if any progression is being made. He told me shes spoiled. He is old cowboy style. It seems to be working but she still has that pissy face and tail going, although now she moves out and slows down when asked-most of the time.

I was out riding in the ring when another coach was in the other day, and she basically told me to do everything but what I have been being taught.

Cowboy Coaches theory-dont talk to your horse, talk with your body, your horse gets pissy-get pissy right back- flex her until she lowers and submits then let it go like nothing happened-circle work etc etc. He is a bit aggressive but she is a very Smart, stubborn mare (smart being the key word-she knows what we are asking for-just gets pissy about it-on the trial-no issue) His methods are-slowly but surely-working.

Other Coaches theory-talk to her constantly, don't ask her to bend at all wait until she offers and praise, dont reprimand pissy faces or poor attitude, just gently nudge her forward..Needless to say using this method-my horse wouldn't even trot, just swish her tail and give me dirty looks when asked.


What I'd like to know is if anyone else out there has any ideas to help us out? I know its not her problem if we have a grumpy ride, its mine-but I cant figure out how to make her happy-I switch things up but regardless of what is being asked she is a pissy pants! so all advise is appreciated! If shes good Ill work her for 15 min and stop if shes bad we continue until she gives in and perks her ears up.Also she is grumpy when other horses go near her in the ring as well-she is not in with the herd at all. No horse friends where she is boarded-big herd-they do not pick on her either-but she will rush them away if they get near her.

I tried to give as much of her history as possible. My history-riding for roughly 10 years-only trail riding-never lessons. First time training a horse-I am realizing that it probably wasnt the best idea but whats done is done and we click very well. I have been complemented on how good she is for her age-outside the ring numerous times. When I bump into issues I get a trainer/coach. I am not a nervous rider and my horse knows this. We just battle for the Alpha spot. Current coach is in his 60's and trained numerous reiners, competes and judges shows locally.
Any questions-just ask :)
 
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Is the mare 4 now, as in you have been riding her constantly since she was 3?

If she was mine I would be giving her a bit of a break, as sometimes they have just had enough, and often come back much better.
 
must admit i agree with Dotilas.
i have no experience at all with Arabs or Mustangs, but i have experience with quite a few other breeds, and hopefully a horse is just a horse (she shouldn't be that unlike the horses i've dealt with ?!), and i've lost count of the times that i've given a horse time off (a few months) and it has come back much much better - more balanced under saddle, etc. so, i'd give her a few months off to grow up mentally and physically, if she were mine.
of the two trainers, my instinct would be the latter attitude, not confrontational, lots of praise, especially with a smart dominant mare. (never forget that a mare is like a stallion in that you have the whole horse, nothing taken away!) obviously there must be boundaries, there's a point where you say 'come ON, i'm not asking for the moon on a stick here, play the game, honey" and she must know that, but a bit of kid-ology goes a long way with this sort of horse. it needs to be 'let's do this' not 'you WILL do that', i think.
sometimes asking nicely and waiting for the right response (and being content to WAIT) really is the key to them.
good luck with her, she sounds quite a character but those are the really rewarding ones once they play the game with you...
 
Hi, Thanks for your quick reply. My mare is going on 5 in May. When she was just over 2-1/2 yrs I started her on light riding at the walk in a round pen twice a week for 10 minutes. Then progressed eventually to 2 rides every week and 3 every second ranging from 15-30 min at the walk and trot-sometimes I missed rides here and there. Then started on trails-Up until she turned 4. She has not been ridden excessively or hard. In the summer she was off for 2 months due to a small rope burn and I like to be over precautious to make sure things heal correctly-she is fine-had a vet check done before and after healing. Her attitude was the same as it was before and giving her that time off made her harder to bring back so I was back to 1-2 hell rides a week. She is just starting to be consistently worked over the past 2 months-and its only 4 days a week for 30-45 min-which for her age is not much-and its all been walk, trot and bending work. I take her on a trail ride as a treat once a week instead of working her-it does not make a difference if I trail ride for months-(I did some arena work at another barn but it was always crammed so not very often-did all my work on the trails) as soon as im in the arena im met with the pissy attitude. Any other advice out there on how to get a more cooperative horse in the arena?
 
Thanks for your reply Kerelli, I understand where you are coming from as that as always been my approach up until this horse and Coach came into my life. His methods work and she perks her ears up once he gets the pissiness out of her by working her hard-she settles right down-almost as if shes thinking "if I just do what he asks everything will be easy". I however do not want to have to use his methods all the time to get a willing horse. I'd prefer to be nice, ask nicely, be patient and get at least 2 steps of a trot without a pinned ear-doesnt happen though which is why I hired him. She does know her cues and listens to them on the trail and she has recently had 2 months off with no change in the arena "attitude".

Any ground work or flatwork anyone can recommend to get her to move forward without being pissy? Any bonding excersises to work on a more willing attitude?
Thank you!
 
Have you tried any polework or jumps? It might just get her thinking about something other than that she's in the arena and working. If she has to concentrate on what her feet are doing it might get her a bit more foccused in general?
 
I've done a lot of pole work in the outdoor-which she rides fine in. But haven't tried any in the indoor as there are usually a few people in it at a time and with her attitude I try and stear clear. I never thought to try jumps as I ride mostly western but everytime I've ever freelunged her-she goes for them. I will try setting up a few poles and a small, small jump tomorrow and see if her attitude changes. Thx for the advice! :)
 
yes, i have a mare with a similar attitude and if there are small jumps, or even just a few poles on the floor, it's as if she can see a point to being in the arena and working... i think the thing is that for some smart horses, they think 'i've been round this circle twice, why should i do it again?' whereas a small jump gives them a purpose.
you could try clicker training, it gets the horse thinking 'what does she want me to do to get the praise click and food?', problem-solving, rather than 'she wants me to do x'.
 
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