Planned Euthanasia

[Cedars]

I'm looking for opinions on which method is best for a planned euthanasia. I have never held a horse before but feel its important for me to hold this one. The facilities allow either and so it really is a personal choice. Horse is not needle nor head shy.

Also, opinions/experiences with disposal options please? We're not interested in keeping ashes or anything so what are the removal and disposal options available to us?

Thanks.

 

[Happy Horse]

My own horse was PTS by injection but if I were to have the decision to make again I would go for the gun purely because it is instant. No so pleasant for the owner but the horse knows absolutely nothing about it.

Either way is totally humane, injection will cost more for the disposal.

You will no doubt hear horror stories from both methods but having worked in a large equine hospital and seen many PTS by both methods I have never seen anything to doubt the use of either.

 

[Cedars]

Do horses fall the same with both methods? I guess more slowly with the injection? My concern with the bullet is that I cannot sit with him afterwards (blood) but I could with the injection?

 

[Happy Horse]

With the bullet the horse goes down instantly, the legs give way and the horse hits the floor. With the injection it is much slower, the head goes down and the legs give way. Some with the injection go down faster but it is generally pretty calm and quiet. Obviously there is blood after the bullet, sometimes more than others and you would probably not want to spend too much time after with the horse. You do have to remember that the horse is not there any more, they will appreciate the time you spend with them before, not after the event. With my boy I said my goodbyes and as soon as he was down I left him to the collection people.

 

[Wagtail]

I've not seen any horse shot but have seen three PTS by injection. They are sedated first, just as they are for many veterinary procedures. You can hold them whilst this happens, but when the vet administers the fatal injection, he/she will usually request that you move to a safe distance away in case the horse falls on you. The horse falls very quickly indeed. Every bit as quick as those I have seen shot (on you tube). Ears are usually pricked and there is some heavy slow breathing for a little while afterwards, but the horse is long unconscious/brain dead by then. They do not twitch at all when PTS by injection, but the heavy last breaths can be unsettling if you do not expect it.

 

[Happy Horse]

Here is a video of a horse being PTS by injection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqyF4E019uI

 

[Happy Horse]

And there is a video on this Facebook page of one being PTS by gun.

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.goatman?fref=ts

 

[Fools Motto]

Here is a video of a horse being PTS by injection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqyF4E019uI

And there is a video on this Facebook page of one being PTS by gun.

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.goatman?fref=ts

Thankyou. More people should see these, they answer lots of questions to those who have asked in the many PTS threads.

 

[Lady La La]

Instead of killing it, why don't you let the vet treat its problems, if it actually even has any...
Don't do what you did to Chloe, Cedars.

 

[Cedars]

That's really helpful, Happy Horse, thank you. Not great videos to watch obviously but good to prepare for whatever is coming in the next days/weeks/months.

Bloody horses, guinea pigs would be much easier!

 

[Wagtail]

What is the matter with the horse?

 

[Cedars]

What is the matter with the horse?

He has kissing spines in three 'spaces' (I don't know what the sciency word is for them). A sliding scale of possible treatments but all ending up and the same result in the relatively near future.

By the way, I have Lady La La on user ignore because she has convinced herself that I'm lying, I haven't taken the horse to the vet, I didn't get a second opinion, my vets are wrong, I'm wrong, I kill my animals when I get bored, we're not giving him a chance.... shall I go on? Please do not quote what she is writing as I am trying to keep my emotions in check whilst dealing with whats obviously quite a tricky time.

 

[Lady La La]

It has KS supposedly.
I can only assume this post was because the one she made on a FB group didn't quite go the way she had planned...
Just shoot it & be done with it eh, Cedars.

 

[JingleTingle]

Oh dear - is the vet saying that any attempts at treatment will end up with euthanasia then? I would urge you to get a 2nd opinion on this, there are many examples on here and other forums of people taking the time and trouble and expense to get their horses treated with this condition.

It would appear that many horses with KS can be treated, and do recover fully and go on to lead a very useful pain free life. I should hate to think that the poor horse (or any animal for that matter)might be PTS unnecessarily for the sake of getting another vet's opinion?

I am sure you know as well as I do how some vets will quite happily agree to put an animal to sleep, where as another one will not be quite so quick to agree to PTS if they feel the animal could be treated with a chance of a good outcome.

 

[Cedars]

I'll PM you grumpyoldmare

 

[Lady La La]

I highly doubt thats what the vet is saying, Cedars is just dead set on killing her horse, just like she was with her dog.
I wonder if she has all the other posters on UI that were disagreeing with her quite obviously fabricated vets reports

 

[Happy Horse]

I think unless you personally know the horse and the owner then it is inadvisable to criticise. Kissing Spines can be treated but generally surgery is needed. It is invasive and expensive.

 

[Wagtail]

My horse has KS in ten places. He had five spines removed. He is now able to use himself very well and canter on a circle (he couldn't do this before). Unfortunately his saddling problem is not resloved. I have now found that this is nothing to do with the KS. He has another unknown problem that is either psychological or pain related in the sternum area. Had his only problem been KS he would be fine now. It is certainly not a death sentence. But had I known about all my horses other problems, I would have probably just retired him and not put him through the op. However, having said that, there is no doubt that he is far more comfortable in the field now. His only problem is with the girth.

 

[Lady La La]

Aparently neither surgery nor injections, nor any other method of treatment could possible save this horse
Inadvisable it may be, but criticise I shall

 

[Archiepoo]

i dont think the point of this thread is to trash cedars. you can ring a hunt and have any horse shot from the day its born til the day its on its knees and past any help.
owners personal choice to do what they wish with their property.
cedars asked a very simple question and it should resonate with every horse owner.
i was told as a child "if you have livestock-you will have deadstock" this may seem harsh or cold but as many of you know ive been through this only days ago.
its a very important decision to make as a horse owner. make your wishes known and find out if that is possible.
make a note of the local huntsman and think carefully what you want. dont be pressured by anyone to hold your horse if you cant -it doesnt mean you loved that horse any less.
either injection or shot the horse wont know anything about it and will be at peace.

 

[Fools Motto]

I know that if ever any of my horses had KS, to the point of needing surgery and lots of further treatment, I couldn't do it... I couldn't do it financially nor for the sake of the horse. So, I would only be sadly looking at this route. My personal input. OP can do as she pleases, whether or not we agree with it. Ho hum.

 

[Jools1234]

Aparently neither surgery nor injections, nor any other method of treatment could possible save this horse
Inadvisable it may be, but criticise I shall

i dont think this is the place though!

personally I would not treat KS and neither would my vet on one of his own horses (it is a topic we have discussed, nor would either of us do colic surgery) due to the huge risk of arthritis.

at the end of the day any animal is better dead than neglegted or ill treated and it is the owners dicision not yours or mine.

i would also always have them shot and again it is my vets preferred method as itis so quick as the videos show

 

[Cedars]

Thanks Archiepoo. Unfortunately Lady La La seems to feel I need to provide her with my vet's report and a copy of the xrays before she believes me!

Unless I copied them as well *gets out colouring pencils*.

I'm not sure the holding is so much for him as me... I stayed with my dog til the end and found it was really important in my closure and grieving. That's different though, she was already down in my arms by the time they injected.

 

[Lady La La]

Basing it on previous experiences Cedars, remember you did kill your dog simply because it had a skin allergy...
The fact is, had you said on FB that your horse had KS but you were chosing not to treat it for personal reasons, I would have ignored your post & carried on about my day, but since you felt the need to try and fabricate a BS vets report & give a million reasons why you can't treat your KS horse despite the fact that you want to save him more than anything - I felt the need to comment

This probably isn't the place, but since you blocked me and several others on FB, I thought I'd add my bit

The fact is, I suspect your horse doesn't even have KS. You saw that my lad was PTS a few days ago & wanted in on the sympathy - you're more than welcome to it.

 

[Clodagh]

The horse doesn't fret about being PTS, it is the owners decision. We have, rightly or wrongly, the God like powers to make the choice. I wouldn't operate for KS either, nor colic as a matter of interest, I would PTS.
Cedars, to stick to the point the local hunt would be my recommendation. It is quick, they are usually very efficient and they take the body away with them.

 

[Littlelegs]

I personally prefer shooting. And by hunt or knackerman, most modern vets use the injection so imo aren't as experienced at shooting anymore. I prefer it because they are gone when they start to fall. It is far more messy for the owner, but I have sat with a horse after it was shot, & when my oldie goes I intend to do the same again. Blood & mess doesn't bother me, but I do think I'm in the minority. Disposal varies, ring round locally. Whether the body is used or cremated depends on what drugs etc its had, so best to ask about your options.

 

[JingleTingle]

Of course it is the OPs legal right to kill the horse if she chooses, but I cant see where people find it odd that some people might question this decision? Surely it is very often seen on similar threads that other forum members offer suggestions that might help the horse and avoid a death sentence?

It is a scary fact that any one of us can take ownership of a dog or horse tomorrow morning and have it shot tomorrow afternoon if we so choose.

OP - may I ask is this the same horse that you posted about recently, the big ID who has really muscled up and found his feet but can be difficult in the warm up ring? But apparently fine once you got him going etc.?

 

[milesjess]

From my experience...

I held my boy and it was the first time I've seen it and I'll say now its not nice.

You need a soft surface and lots of space.

Vet will inject sedative into horses neck. Then takes a few mins for that to kick in. They'll then inject the pink lethal fluid slowly, once it's through they'll try to hold the horses head down to encourage the fall without going everywhere. Horse will then fall down, it looks more brutal then it is, as the vet said the horse is unconscious before hitting the ground.

It then takes around 5 mins for the body to wind down, horse will keep eyes open and mouth. You can be there by their side and talk to them whilst the vet checks heart, gums etc... Vet will then confirm when horse has passed.

It's not nice at all, I found it extremely hard but had to stay with my boy til the end. Just ensure the area is clean, soft and out of other horses view. Also easy vehicle access to remove the body.

Sorry your in this situation x

 

[milesjess]

Also to add, I don't know whether I'd prefer to shoot as its instant. Injection is a slow process and can be distressing to watch.

 

[indie999]

The horse doesn't fret about being PTS, it is the owners decision. We have, rightly or wrongly, the God like powers to make the choice. I wouldn't operate for KS either, nor colic as a matter of interest, I would PTS.
Cedars, to stick to the point the local hunt would be my recommendation. It is quick, they are usually very efficient and they take the body away with them.

Ok I am not judging anyone here I agree with above,but 2 weeks ago a vet came to PTS my old boy who was arthritic etc increased to 2 bute a day which wasnt working. Diagnosed Arthritis both hinds 2005 on xray new bone growth in both hinds. Anyway knew PTS was imminent. On day I decided my horse had enough was limping etc(he was quite happy by the way). I was quite shocked at the vets attitude as he wanted to treat my horse and thought if he was down and couldnt get up then I could consider PTS even though he agreed horse was lame in back end! Now I know my horse and personally couldnt put him through loading/injections pointless tests etc etcHe doesnt load well and broke 3 head collars in 2005 at vets. So I went for PTS with Injection. Personally quality of life is important to me and being utterly realistic, my horse wasnt getting better and slowly deteriorating. I got other opinions from experienced owners to confirm I was making right decision.
This is what happened on the day:

Caught my horse, vet drew up the 1. sedative first...gave him slowly into neck directly via needle(not cannula), my horse didnt bat an eyelid. I fed him one apple then he started to doze off on second apple, the bites became nibbles and then no more. It was sad as he was just so fast asleep as if it was a normal sleep standing up!
STEP 2. Vet now casually drew up final injection which is apparently an overdose of anaesthetic. This was quite quick. My horse flinched when he put the needle in only momentarily, and dozed back off as the drug was administered, its quite a lot of fluid ie about 80-100mls ? Once this had been administered the vet took the lead rope from me and asked me to stand back, he informed me that there will be a couple of grunts andmy horse just went over. It honestly was so peaceful, reading the horror stories of it all going wrong it was fine for old boy. I dont know yet the cost I rang today to get the bill(off top head I think about £196+vat poss a bit for sedative..my vet isnt the cheapest). Collection service approx £275 for cremation etc.

If it was an emergency or a needle shy horse I probably would have got the hunt out to put out a distressed animal instantly ie in case getting a needle into a thrashing horse etc.

But this is just my experience, I found booking the deed worse than doing it. I stayed throughout I wanted to hold my horse as he was my responsibility and no one elses.

I think either method is what you want to suit you and your horse and the hunt comes very highly recommended for being kind/experienced/efficient. I think £150 all in.

I dont envy your decision. Do what you think is right.