Planning Office again!!!

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traceruk

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"We are clamping down on people with horses", This phase was uttered to me by an enforcement officer from Flintshire county council. We have 10 acres, and on that land we have a few grazing horses. The planners have demanded that we, not only apply for change of use, (from agricultural) but they have picked up on a string of alledged missdermeaners, such as fencing, and sheds. Oh yes.. and a building, that they already said we could build, NOW needs a retrospective planning application.... Is it just me, I wonder? or are these trumped up Hitlers going too far these days. It seems to me, that when you read the government web sites about horses, they are all behind us poor horse lovers, but the councils seem to think that they can ignore government guidelines or manipulate there own guidelines to suit themselves. and note guys, that these people work from "GUIDELINES" and not anything that is set in stone, if you happen to drawer the short straw and get a planning officer who resents horse owners because one frightened him as a child, then kiss your stables goodbye. Oh yes, and on the subject of stables. The planning office believes that a "Stable" is a house for horses, IT IS NOT.. look in the dictionary! It is a dry enclosure for livestock.. and we are all alowed to build those as we need them, SO WHY DO WE NEED PLANNING PERMISSION TO BUILD THEM?

Did you also know that, if you keep a horse in a field, you need to change the use of that field (and pay these people £315 for the privaledge) but you can keep a horse within the curtiledge of your home, and build a stable for it, in other words in your own garden, (so long as it doesn't cause a nusance, but then thats a different law all together.

I want your stories folks as Im sure there are hundreds out there, isn't it time we fought this oppression and victimisation, because that is exactly what this is.
 
I work in advertising, at the installation end and I deal with Planners frequently. They are in general OK, but they do often have their own, quite fixed, ideas and of course they are allowed to 'interpret' those 'guidelines'.

There are a series of PPG (planning policy guidance) notes, which used to be on the Dept. Prime Ministers web site. Find the set of notes that apply to planning permission for stables, and you will have the rule book.

Definitions are very important. We defeated an attempt by our local planning dept. to make us take down a starvation paddock. It all hinged on the word 'structure'. A paddock has it's own definition, as does an enclosure (both pretty much the same thing), but neither are 'structures' as defined in good old Oxford English which we pointed out. After that we heard nothing more from them.

BTW, for the planning officer to come a callin, it is likely that someone will have drawn your situation to their attention. They are far too busy to seek cases out for themselves.
 
Yes, they came up to check on a caravan that was parked here. not used but someone complained about it.. What happened next was a series of letters with different objections and demands for the planners, as we delt with those issues, others were raised, I dont believe that it's personal but I believe her motives are
 
I have to say that my stable yard got through planning without any hitches although the council did cite BHS references ie. one horse per acre therefore one stable per acre of land giving me six stables. We had put in for eight. My planning consultants wrote back to say ok the additional two stables will be used for food storage and a rug room. Went straight through. I also agree that the council only come a callin when someone complains and unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who are busy bodies and don't like to see others get on. It seems to be the case that different councils deal with things differently. I had hard standing and a shed already before the stable yard was built and although my planning consultant said we may have to get retrospective planning permission the council deemed it not worth pursuing as it unlikely they would win if I took it further and approved it. My advice is always to use recognised planning consultants, although they cost thousands it was well worth the hassle free process as I think councils get nervous if people go ahead and just do things they will look at everything in finer detail. If you do things professionally they are generally helpful. Good luck.
 
You just can not buy agricultural land and turn horses out on it I am afraid. The planning laws require you to get change of use from agricultural to equestrian use to enable you to graze horses on the land.

When dealing with Planning Departments you are also far better off appointing a surveyor to do it for you as they know the planners and speak the same language as them.

When it comes to selling the land then the purchasers solicitors will need to to see sight of the planning approval documentation to ensure that the land can be used for equine use.
 
Why is this?

Just curious as to why a cow (4 legged beast that eats grass) and a sheep (smaller 4 legged beast that eats grass) have to be agricultural but a horse (4 legged beast that eats grass) isn't - when all 3 could live in the same field... doesn't really make sense does it?
 
Well if you have 16 legs of sheep for every four legs of horse you remain agricultural - apparently. Which is one of the reasons I got sheep in the first place and probably the only reason I still have them. Wretched animals!
 
I just think that it's so unfair. We have 9 acres and at the moment we're trying to get permission for a 40 x 20 manege in a location that cannot be seen by anyone but us. The hoops you are expected to jump through is just absurd. I know someone who has been refused on the basis that there are a few in her area already, and so she "can use one of those". Can you believe that???? I mean, can you imagine telling that to your neighbour - the PD have told me that you have to let me use your manege. I could hiss and spit, and they hardly encuorage people to play by the rules do they? They are so obstructive. I wouldn't mind, but in this very urbanite era, many of these small holdings and country properties simply wouldn't have a buyer if that buyer didn't want to keep their horses at home.
 
My experience with planners is that, unlike what you might expect given that they are public officers, they are NOT there to help you, they are there to hinder you. They will say anything to stop any kind of development (we were told we couldn't put up post and rail fencing!) and the only way to deal with them is to get a planning consultant involved. At the end of the day all they do is ask the planners to justify their claims and point to the relevant legislation/guidelines and you never hear back from them. You do have to pay the planning consultant fees though...
 
Eeeek ! Don't scare me, my planning application is with the dreadded planners at the moment. We have spent so much money on getting this land and I am terrified I won't be able to keep my horses on it.
 
The trouble with all of this is that it is down to the individual planning officer and NOT law, for every rule or demand they throw at you, there is a counter statement on some government web site that goes against them. For exampl, you can put horses on agricultural land, as long as are there for grazing purposes and you dont get any "Enjoyment" from them, the second you saddle one up, it becomes equestrian... but then what if you saddled one up in order to round up your cattle, or sheep, it is agricultural again because you are now using it for the betterment of the land... the above info is taken from varius web sites devoted to the subject, so what is black and white, and what is grey.... that would appear to be decided by these hitlers
 
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