Planting and Going Backwards!!!

[megb18.02]

Hi everyone! I’m new on here purely because I am in need of some advice! I recently acquired a new ex racehorse (had them before) and I was told to crack on with him and not give him a rest which I did (I know some will disagree but the yard I got him from are far less intense than your average racing yard). He usually does everything I ask of him, pole work, working in the open field, jumping, you name it... apart from hacking! I took him out on his first hack with me through a very quiet wood adjacent to our yard. To start with, he was perfect, just plodding and looking around. We then crossed onto the track that takes us towards home and he was fine, just rather impatient. I put this down to him being used to running home on the gallop he went on. There was no great issue, just throwing his teddy out at standing still. Then we got to a sort of down hill bit and that was it. He planted himself. I gave him a pat and gently asked him to move forward but he was having none of it and decided to start going backwards and trying to spin. We ended up reversing down a slope off the track into the middle of the wood into trees and all sorts. I refused to get off as I did not want to give into him. After a bit of encouragement and with the help of my mum trying to lead him, we finally got going again after about 10 minutes and he got plenty of praise for it. He was then fine all the way home. The next time I took him out was in company and he was perfectly fine (as to be expected). Then again after that we went for a wander down the lane and turned around at the bottom, he was fine again here. The most recent incident was when I took him through the village and as soon as we proceeded to go back on to the track that leads to the yard, he planted again and did the whole reversing thing again. We spent about 10 minutes trying to move him but he just would not have it and kept going backwards into sign posts, walls, nearly oncoming traffic too (that had thankfully stopped). He then did a really violent spin/rear away from home which nearly resulted in me on the tarmac with him on top of me. I decided to get off as with the slippy tarmac, it was getting very dangerous. I lead him down to let the traffic past, then back up to where the incident was, then back down again without stopping. I jumped back on a carried on along the lane. He was ok, on his toes a bit and wouldn’t stand still but nothing major. Then we had to stop for a farm vehicle that decided to go the other way!!! But he wouldn’t move on again and once again, reversed up a grass bank. I had to jump off again (bad I know I maybe shouldn’t but when it’s dangerous for both of us, it’s the only option). He carried on having his paddy and then walked on so I jumped back on and finally got home.
As far as I know, there is not triggers for this behaviour. At first I thought it was going down hill but when he did it for the third time, it was on the flat. All teeth, feet, saddle, etc. Checked. No problems found. Like I said, he works perfect in the school and is such a gentleman temperament wise but hacking seems to cause issues for him.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! Have tried a bit of a whack with a pro-cush stick before, seems to cause more harm than good. When my mums trying to lead him, he just leans against it too. Tried the good old wait it out and be nice, to no prevail. Every time leg pressure is applied, we seem to go backwards faster! Does not want to turn either.
I can only apologise for the great waffle but I always more information can really help! Thank you in advance! Xx

 

[SpeedyPony]

My first thought when I read the title was napping, but it's odd he plants on the way home. Is there anything on the yard he might not be keen on returning to? An ill-tempered field companion, lack of turnout, boredom?
You say he's difficult to turn, but can you get him to back up the way you want to go? Either that or really wait him out, even if it means you stand there for a couple of hours. VERY dull, but sometimes sheer bl**dy-mindedness is the only answer!

ETA could it be a physical issue related to the time spent under saddle? I.e. fine for the first 1/2 hr, then gets sore?

 

[RHM]

Mine does this and the only thing which I found worked was to take all the pressure off with your legs, as that only made mine go backwards faster too. Make sure you have long reins so he can actually move forwards and the a couple of really sharp taps on the top of his arse, not the top of his leg as this just made him buck ?.
All forwards movement gets rewarded. I would however only be looking to ride him through it if all the usual checks have been done, particularly his saddle. Good luck with it, I know how frustrating it can be!!

 

[doodle]

He sounds like soli! Must be the racehorse in them. He would nap so badly he would be pointing towards home, I would say “fine then, go towards home” and he would strop even more because he said he wasn’t moving forward and he WASNT MOVING FORWARD!!!!

 

[Teaboy]

There’s a few things you could do but I suggest getting the help of a knowledgeable trainer that can help you through this either ridden themselves, to show you what they might do, or from the ground if your a capable rider. I would also be inclined to go back to ground work, including long lining him out to get him out of the habit and confident in his new routine. Some can get very stressed and go into panic mode when lacking confidence, which can involve napping anywhere and everywhere including homewards!

 

[Bellaboo18]

It's a big thing for an exracer to hack out alone. So I build it up slowly.
Hack out with another horse following, then leading then increasing your lead eventually 'losing' the other horse.
Then follow a person on a bike
Then a person on foot
Then on their own.
He's planting due to a lack of confidence and you don't want to make it a habit. The slower you do things and have positive hacks the more his confidence will grow.

 

[megb18.02]

My first thought when I read the title was napping, but it's odd he plants on the way home. Is there anything on the yard he might not be keen on returning to? An ill-tempered field companion, lack of turnout, boredom?
You say he's difficult to turn, but can you get him to back up the way you want to go? Either that or really wait him out, even if it means you stand there for a couple of hours. VERY dull, but sometimes sheer bl**dy-mindedness is the only answer!

ETA could it be a physical issue related to the time spent under saddle? I.e. fine for the first 1/2 hr, then gets sore?

He seems to love being at home, he’s best friends with his field mate and has lots of boredom toys and always seems happy. He’s also on full turnout and sometimes comes in for a break from the field! I’ve actually just popped a new bit in his mouth tonight which supports turning so making him reverse where we want to go may now be easier! But as for time under saddle, you maybe could have a point however he works perfectly in the school and has also hacked this route in company before. Unless it is a very recently developed thing, I’ll definitely bring this up as he has a routine physio appointment this week. Thank you ! Xx

 

[megb18.02]

Mine does this and the only thing which I found worked was to take all the pressure off with your legs, as that only made mine go backwards faster too. Make sure you have long reins so he can actually move forwards and the a couple of really sharp taps on the top of his arse, not the top of his leg as this just made him buck ?.
All forwards movement gets rewarded. I would however only be looking to ride him through it if all the usual checks have been done, particularly his saddle. Good luck with it, I know how frustrating it can be!!

I usually do ride him through his tantrums but these last couple of times were just getting a little out of hand and it was dangerous to stay on as I didn’t want him to flip over! I might have a go at the sharp taps, could be interesting ? thank you ! Xx

 

[megb18.02]

He sounds like soli! Must be the racehorse in them. He would nap so badly he would be pointing towards home, I would say “fine then, go towards home” and he would strop even more because he said he wasn’t moving forward and he WASNT MOVING FORWARD!!!!

I think it must be! He’s usually perfect but once he’s got something in his head, he sticks to it and even contradicts himself in the process! ? There’s not moving them when they’ve had enough!

 

[megb18.02]

There’s a few things you could do but I suggest getting the help of a knowledgeable trainer that can help you through this either ridden themselves, to show you what they might do, or from the ground if your a capable rider. I would also be inclined to go back to ground work, including long lining him out to get him out of the habit and confident in his new routine. Some can get very stressed and go into panic mode when lacking confidence, which can involve napping anywhere and everywhere including homewards!

I’ve been training horses for 14 years so have had a run of the mill! ? I’ve been in touch with a trainer I sometimes use and she’s suggested what I’ve already tried. But like you say, it’s panic mode just turned on in a flash. Sometimes I don’t think he realises where he is, panics, then naps since he doesn’t realise we are going home! Thank you !

 

[megb18.02]

I’ve been training horses for 14 years so have had a run of the mill! ? I’ve been in touch with a trainer I sometimes use and she’s suggested what I’ve already tried. But like you say, it’s panic mode just turned on in a flash. Sometimes I don’t think he realises where he is, panics, then naps since he doesn’t realise we are going home! Thank you !

There’s a few things you could do but I suggest getting the help of a knowledgeable trainer that can help you through this either ridden themselves, to show you what they might do, or from the ground if your a capable rider. I would also be inclined to go back to ground work, including long lining him out to get him out of the habit and confident in his new routine. Some can get very stressed and go into panic mode when lacking confidence, which can involve napping anywhere and everywhere including homewards!

Sorry I forgot to mention as well, he used to go hacking on the yard he was on as they do a lot of one to one work with the horses and has been out with me a few times before and been fine. It’s just out of the blue he does this rather than every time we go out.

 

[megb18.02]

It's a big thing for an exracer to hack out alone. So I build it up slowly.
Hack out with another horse following, then leading then increasing your lead eventually 'losing' the other horse.
Then follow a person on a bike
Then a person on foot
Then on their own.
He's planting due to a lack of confidence and you don't want to make it a habit. The slower you do things and have positive hacks the more his confidence will grow.

I fully understand where your coming from, he has been out in company a few times and was fine as you’d expect. However I’ve had him out a few times by himself and he’s usually very confident in himself. The yard he’s from used to do one to one work with the horses too so he used to go out alone then too. He also usually has someone walking next to us as well. I’ll definitely try some more work in company though, hopefully see an improvement! Thank you ! Xx

 

[AmyMay]

Is he actually used to hacking out on his own?

 

[Mule]

Mine used to be an expert at this! He could walk backwards for miles
He's 99% cured of it now. Basically what did it was patience. Leg pressure would make mine go backwards even faster. A whip freaked him out. I just had to wait out the plant and when he took a step forward, give lots of praise.

What helps a lot was for me to relax and let him get on with it. When mine goes backwards, if I tense up it makes it worse. If I relax and laugh at him, he stops going backwards, has a think about it and walks on.

Mine used to enjoy walking backwards towards cars in the middle of the road too and it's not safe to wait it out in that situation. What I would do is keep him out of traffic where possible until you have the backwards movement under control.

 

[Teaboy]

I’ve been training horses for 14 years so have had a run of the mill! ? I’ve been in touch with a trainer I sometimes use and she’s suggested what I’ve already tried. But like you say, it’s panic mode just turned on in a flash. Sometimes I don’t think he realises where he is, panics, then naps since he doesn’t realise we are going home! Thank you !

Oops sorry about that, hard to know how much experience people have from a post. If you don’t catch it before the planting, ie you haven’t been able to turn his hind feet before he totally plants I’d definitely go for the sit quiet wait it out approach with a loose contact and be prepared for the surge in a random direction moment and attempt to steer in the direction you are wanting without restricting him in front. If he goes backwards attempt to turn him, likewise if you feel he actually wants to move but is planting (So a bit twitchy) do the turn. If he won’t turn but insists on going backwards quietly try riding the rein back, play a little bit of a mind game while remaining completely calm. Most off all don’t limit his forward motion with the hand.
It’s not something I would normally suggest on a forum as it’s mostly about timing which comes through experience, hence before knowing your experience I suggested the trainer route. So I hope you don’t take offence to my first post.
Having said all that the long lining might work nicely.

 

[megb18.02]

Is he actually used to hacking out on his own?

As far as I know, yes. I’m good friends with the yard he came from and have done some work there so therefore seen it. He has also been out alone with me before, he doesn’t do this all the time

 

[megb18.02]

Mine used to be an expert at this! He could walk backwards for miles
He's 99% cured of it now. Basically what did it was patience. Leg pressure would make mine go backwards even faster. A whip freaked him out. I just had to wait out the plant and when he took a step forward, give lots of praise.

What helps a lot was for me to relax and let him get on with it. When mine goes backwards, if I tense up it makes it worse. If I relax and laugh at him, he stops going backwards, has a think about it and walks on.

Mine used to enjoy walking backwards towards cars in the middle of the road too and it's not safe to wait it out in that situation. What I would do is keep him out of traffic where possible until you have the backwards movement under control.

It surprises me how he can walk further backwards than forwards!! ? But yes I usually do have the usual “What are you trying to achieve with this” conversation while he’s in the act but sometimes waiting aggravates him more, it’s as if he’s desperate to move, just not forward! But I will try and focus on keeping every aid as relaxed as possible next time. Thank you ! Xx

 

[megb18.02]

Oops sorry about that, hard to know how much experience people have from a post. If you don’t catch it before the planting, ie you haven’t been able to turn his hind feet before he totally plants I’d definitely go for the sit quiet wait it out approach with a loose contact and be prepared for the surge in a random direction moment and attempt to steer in the direction you are wanting without restricting him in front. If he goes backwards attempt to turn him, likewise if you feel he actually wants to move but is planting (So a bit twitchy) do the turn. If he won’t turn but insists on going backwards quietly try riding the rein back, play a little bit of a mind game while remaining completely calm. Most off all don’t limit his forward motion with the hand.
It’s not something I would normally suggest on a forum as it’s mostly about timing which comes through experience, hence before knowing your experience I suggested the trainer route. So I hope you don’t take offence to my first post.
Having said all that the long lining might work nicely.

No need to apologise, I’d probably suggest the same! But I usually sit waiting for his next move with loose contact anyway but he gets sort of agitated at waiting and tries to reverse again. I’m in the process of teaching him to rein back in the school so when he’s out, instead of him choosing to go back, I can make him keep going until he gets bored or until I ask him to stop. He does get twitchy but as soon as you try to turn, he swings his head round and then goes back in the new direction we’re facing (if that makes sense). It’s such a tricky one, I’ve had horses that flew back a lot before and teaching them to rein back on my accord usually nearly solved the issue. But defiantly worth a try, thank you !

 

[SEL]

Ah mine got into a nasty habit of doing this as a youngster. No self preservation at what she was running into either. Taking us both backwards into a huge drainage ditch was the last straw. She was no different with another horse.

Slightly randomly someone asked me how well she yielded her hindquarters. Hmmm - well I hadn't really focused on that. So back we went in hand to the school and i worked on getting her to yield properly at the touch of a long schooling whip. Then I did the same on board.

I next took her to a safe place outside the yard (no ditches) & we worked there. Then I led her in hand up the bridle path, got on and tried to ride away. Usual planting but this time I took the long whip and flicked her legs to get her to yield. Go forwards = relax, no pressure. Plant = work hindquarters.

I still don't think of her as the most reliable hack (but she's had a tonne of physical issues), but that exercise for her thinking forward

 

[megb18.02]

Ah mine got into a nasty habit of doing this as a youngster. No self preservation at what she was running into either. Taking us both backwards into a huge drainage ditch was the last straw. She was no different with another horse.

Slightly randomly someone asked me how well she yielded her hindquarters. Hmmm - well I hadn't really focused on that. So back we went in hand to the school and i worked on getting her to yield properly at the touch of a long schooling whip. Then I did the same on board.

I next took her to a safe place outside the yard (no ditches) & we worked there. Then I led her in hand up the bridle path, got on and tried to ride away. Usual planting but this time I took the long whip and flicked her legs to get her to yield. Go forwards = relax, no pressure. Plant = work hindquarters.

I still don't think of her as the most reliable hack (but she's had a tonne of physical issues), but that exercise for her thinking forward

It’s not a nice experience, especially when it’s putting you both in danger. But I quite like the idea of this though, definitely worth a try! Thank you! Xx

 

[Carlosmum]

Its not just TBs ! My NFP gave me a good run for my money yesterday, we were out for 3 hours on a ride that should take about 45 minutes!

 

[megb18.02]

Its not just TBs ! My NFP gave me a good run for my money yesterday, we were out for 3 hours on a ride that should take about 45 minutes!

Oh no! It is quite a difficult one when you have to explain to people back at the yard that you took longer because you did the ride forwards, then did it backwards again! ? Hope yours settles soon!

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I just wanted to add OP, there is nothing wrong in getting off and leading, you describe it as “giving in to him” and “I know I shouldn’t do it”.

You need to set him up to succeed not fail, if it gets difficult then get off and lead and give him confidence.

You need professional help, as despite saying you have trained horses for 14 years, you are obviously young and with youth can come braveness that can put you (and the horse) at risk, thinking you can handle it alone.

No shame in asking for help and it will put you on the right start.

 

[ycbm]

No need to apologise, I’d probably suggest the same! But I usually sit waiting for his next move with loose contact anyway but he gets sort of agitated at waiting and tries to reverse again. I’m in the process of teaching him to rein back in the school so when he’s out, instead of him choosing to go back, I can make him keep going until he gets bored or until I ask him to stop. He does get twitchy but as soon as you try to turn, he swings his head round and then goes back in the new direction we’re facing (if that makes sense). It’s such a tricky one, I’ve had horses that flew back a lot before and teaching them to rein back on my accord usually nearly solved the issue. But defiantly worth a try, thank you !

Will he reverse in the direction you want to go? If it's safe and he will, I would reverse him until he sick of going backwards.

Planters are frustrating enough, but planters who don't just stand and wait are a real pain!

If all else fails I would get off. I had a terrible planter a few years back and I couldn't cure him without getting off. He got it eventually, but he was never a happy solo hack.

.

 

[MiniMilton]

I had one that did this. He basically cantered backwards into cars, barbed wire, ditches.... Extremely dangerous and the more I kicked and hit he would just go faster. He would do it out hacking, hunting and at competitions. He looked as safe as houses at home in the school. It was his panic mode. The only way I could minimise it was to never slow down enough to give him a chance to plant. Waiting to go showjumping for example I couldn't stand at the gate for my turn, I needed to trot around the collecting ring then trot on strong into the showjumping ring. I couldn't go on big hunts as queueing for jumps would give him opportunity to do it. You will learn to see it happening before it happens and trot on really strong before the horse even thinks about it. If I missed the opportunity and he started going backwards I eventually realised that getting off and leading him was safer than him clambering over the bonnet of a car or over a cliff edge. So the key was to not let it get to that point of the inital plant.

This was a vice not disclosed to me when I bought the horse, and unfortunately pre social media days it was only months later when people saw me zooming backwards at shows that people approached me and said they knew the horse and the previous owner because they had seen him do this many many times before. It happened less often as the years went by and as I got better at avoiding triggers. It never completely went and I still have feckker 25 years later, I couldn't be passing that off onto someone else.

 

[megb18.02]

I just wanted to add OP, there is nothing wrong in getting off and leading, you describe it as “giving in to him” and “I know I shouldn’t do it”.

You need to set him up to succeed not fail, if it gets difficult then get off and lead and give him confidence.

You need professional help, as despite saying you have trained horses for 14 years, you are obviously young and with youth can come braveness that can put you (and the horse) at risk, thinking you can handle it alone.

No shame in asking for help and it will put you on the right start.

I know you are trying to help but please don’t tell me I need “professional help” when I work with so called “professionals” daily who have all suggested the exact same things of what I’ve been trying. I may be a brave rider (since I work with and ride racers as well as my own) but I know my horses limits and certainly know my own better. I have enough experience to know when situations are getting dangerous and where we are both at risk, and how to prevent these risks from escalating (example being getting off to let him relax, the getting back on again). I am not afraid to ask for help, and never have been in my 14 years or owning, riding and training horses. If I was, I wouldn’t be on here asking for opinions. I am here to see if anyone suggests anything different to what me and the “professionals” have come up with. Like I said, I understand that you are trying to help and am very grateful but sometimes it comes across as a bit obnoxious when someone is trying say you don’t know what you’re doing. I assure you my horses health and comfort is a best interest here.

 

[megb18.02]

Will he reverse in the direction you want to go? If it's safe and he will, I would reverse him until he sick of going backwards.

Planters are frustrating enough, but planters who don't just stand and wait are a real pain!

If all else fails I would get off. I had a terrible planter a few years back and I couldn't cure him without getting off. He got it eventually, but he was never a happy solo hack.

.

This is my next plan for when it happens, to try and turn him and reverse in the direction we want to go. I agree, it is frustrating though! The poor thing knows he wants to move, just not forward! I don’t think he’s ever going to be the soundest solo hack, like yours. Thank you for your advice!

 

[oldie48]

This is my next plan for when it happens, to try and turn him and reverse in the direction we want to go. I agree, it is frustrating though! The poor thing knows he wants to move, just not forward! I don’t think he’s ever going to be the soundest solo hack, like yours. Thank you for your advice!

My daughter used to do this with one of her youngsters. It eventually sorted the problem but her aim was always to keep him moving in the direction she wanted to go, even if it was backwards. She said she used to get some very funny looks!

 

[megb18.02]

I had one that did this. He basically cantered backwards into cars, barbed wire, ditches.... Extremely dangerous and the more I kicked and hit he would just go faster. He would do it out hacking, hunting and at competitions. He looked as safe as houses at home in the school. It was his panic mode. The only way I could minimise it was to never slow down enough to give him a chance to plant. Waiting to go showjumping for example I couldn't stand at the gate for my turn, I needed to trot around the collecting ring then trot on strong into the showjumping ring. I couldn't go on big hunts as queueing for jumps would give him opportunity to do it. You will learn to see it happening before it happens and trot on really strong before the horse even thinks about it. If I missed the opportunity and he started going backwards I eventually realised that getting off and leading him was safer than him clambering over the bonnet of a car or over a cliff edge. So the key was to not let it get to that point of the inital plant.

This was a vice not disclosed to me when I bought the horse, and unfortunately pre social media days it was only months later when people saw me zooming backwards at shows that people approached me and said they knew the horse and the previous owner because they had seen him do this many many times before. It happened less often as the years went by and as I got better at avoiding triggers. It never completely went and I still have feckker 25 years later, I couldn't be passing that off onto someone else.

I completely agree, I’m working on recognising his triggers then trying to avoid them as much as possible, like you said by trotting etc. so it doesn’t get to the point where we’re crashing into objects around us. A lot of people have said to me before “don’t get off” but it is so much safer than them doing damage to themselves or like you said, “clambering over a cliff edge”. This is why I’m wanting to get the issue somewhat nipped in the bud before we start to go out competing as I wouldn’t want him doing it there and having a bad experience of the places. I’m lucky that he doesn’t do it all the time and will stand to open gates etc. but when he’s having a bad time, he won’t! I did have one before exactly like yours where no one told me about this vice until the previous owner came to see him and said “Oh look he doesn’t rear and go backwards when you’re getting on anymore” Safe to say I had to hold my tongue on that one. Thank you for your advice, greatly appreciated!

 

[megb18.02]

My daughter used to do this with one of her youngsters. It eventually sorted the problem but her aim was always to keep him moving in the direction she wanted to go, even if it was backwards. She said she used to get some very funny looks!

Definitely going to give it a try since everyone is suggesting it. Mind you, I sometimes find the funny looks people give can be quite entertaining! Can only imagine what’s going through their head when they see horses reversing everywhere! Thank you for your input, greatly appreciated!