Planting Pony Progress...

spookypony

spookypony

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Posting this here although not strictly CR, because this is where I got lots of advice (thanks! :) ), so I thought you might like to hear how it's going...

Quick recap: pony has developed tendency to plant when asked to go along a track he doesn't want to follow, and when asked to do anything useful (i.e. trot, at all) in the school. Physical causes have been ruled out, checked, etc. etc. He's perfectly fine and forward when we're going somewhere he wants to go. When I pick a fight, I get ears back, walking backwards, and bucking.

I haven't had as much time as I'd like to sort this, since combination of work and weather made it hard to ride more than about 2X/week before Christmas, but I was addressing the in-school issue when I could. Strategy: pick a fight, ignore all backwards-walking-bucking shenanigans, and keep nagging until he trots. As soon as he's trotted around the school and seems inclined to continue, stop, and go home. First time took about 1/2 hour (yes, 1/2 hour to get a 14.1 pony to trot around a school), second time took maybe 15 mins, third time about 5 mins...we're still not back to doing canter work, let alone a decent dressage test, but we may be on the right track. :)

Out hacking has been a different matter: there's a limit to how big a fight I want to pick, say, in the middle of the road (i.e. none), or in a place where, if he chucks me off, he may well end up in the middle of the road. Today was my first time on him in a month (I was away for 3 weeks, and then the tracks were too icy). Plan was to do a shortish slow hack around the woods, just to get back into things.

First planting: in the middle of the road, just outside the yard. I had no choice but to dismount and lead him the rest of the way into the woods. :mad:

Second planting: at the track that leads to the riding school. I decided to wait him out this time! We were there for over 1/2 hour, backed into numerous trees, had some hefty bucks, but he wasn't allowed to turn from the path he was meant to be on, or to scratch his nose. Just as I was starting to worry at the increasing size of his strops, he suddenly gave up and walked purposefully onwards. A small victory! :D

On the way home, on the other hand, he was highly wired, the sausage... :mad:

So I think we'll keep on with the "wait him out" strategy for now...those who have successfully used this strategy, at what intervals did you keep asking the planted horses to walk on? I think I waited about 5 minutes between each attempt, but was unsure what I should be doing in the meantime...just sitting there, keeping him faced in the right direction?? :confused:

And to top it all off, when I got back to the yard, someone phoned me to ask if I'd be interested in loaning an 8yo dressage WB... for which I won't have time, because I need to sort out this #@$$&% pony... :mad:

Sorry for the epic, everyone, had to get it off my chest! :o
 
LOL well.. ok seriousley you need to have somebody behind you, and if able a decent water gun that has a long shot, then generally horses wont associate the person being with them.

Ive used this method on nappers before and it does work well, it normally creates a shot forward reaction with bum under them so be prepared for the shoot forward andbe aware not to pull on the mouth!

I have had somebody follow me in car on hack with a mare i had that was a known napper, in the form of planting, rearing, leaping etc, and she was a mare that you really couldnt hit (done that once and learnt my lesson.)

she stopped she got shot up the butt.. just under the tail! it got the cow bag going forward! and we did get over our hacking issues .. god knows what switched in her mind as she wasnt a spooky sort . it was more of a Thanks but I dont want to turn left today..
 
I have used the "sit there and ignore" method in which I just sat on my mare talking cod$hit and randomly asking her to walk on, took up to 45 mins in some sessions but she will now hack out on her own quite happily. I think it took about a month.
 
You can't argue with my mare if you want your buttocks to remain attached to the saddle :o She is such a sensistive wee soul... We have found taking leg of, loose rein and just sitting it out for a few moment then asking her again helps if she does it again repeat this time she gets a very obvious half halt :o then let her settle again then ask her to walk on... She has learned to walk on when I lift the rein to give the half halt now though as she doesn't like it when you give her a firm reminder that you are asking her to do something xx

But you can squeee, kick and smack till you are blue in the face with Holly and she only digs her feet in further :O
 
Very comforting to know I'm not the only one! :) The frustrating thing is that this behaviour pretty much developed out of the blue late last summer, when I was worried about his feet (barely headed off a lami episode), and about my injured shoulder. He used to be a joy to hack---about the one thing he did really really well! The schooling problems are also mega-irritating, because he'd just finally started to get what I was after, before everything was put on hold thanks to the injury. Oh well. :)

Sanolly and Hollysmum, thanks for the advice!

jhoward, I may try your method...am pretty used to sudden leaps in random directions from this little guy! And I just got a new hat, too, in case... :p
 
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spookypony said:
Very comforting to know I'm not the only one! :) The frustrating thing is that this behaviour pretty much developed out of the blue late last summer, when I was worried about his feet (barely headed off a lami episode), and about my injured shoulder. He used to be a joy to hack---about the one thing he did really really well! The schooling problems are also mega-irritating, because he'd just finally started to get what I was after, before everything was put on hold thanks to the injury. Oh well. :)

Sanolly and Hollysmum, thanks for the advice!

jhoward, I may try your method...am pretty used to sudden leaps in random directions from this little guy! And I just got a new hat, too, in case... :p
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would you mind terribley videoing it? PMSL.. to be fair to you .. ive just gone from BIG horses 2 a 14.2 cob that has the quickest spin on him, i forgot how quick these ponies were, on the big horses i used to have various thoughts when something happened (last big episode was a rear leap buck and spin in one go) i had the time to think im going to kill said horse then s*** get foot out of stirrup! on the cob i have now its like were wandering along then varoom hes spun and were heading the other way! not a milli second of a thought of anything!
 
Sorry no advice, but it sounds like you are doing all the right things and they are working. Try to be patient and wait him out, unless of course you're stuck in the middle of the road! It might also help if he gets as much reward for moving as possible, e.g. pats, 'good boy' and polos right after you finish riding?
 
:D jhoward! I've a friend that's willing to help if the waiting-it-out method doesn't seem to be bearing fruit; I'm sure she'll happily carry my phone alongside the Super-Soaker.

I'm another one that usually gets put on the tall horses---and their spooks really feel like slo-mo after this pony. Observers tend to assume I'm a big wimp, until they actually witness one of his "episodes"... :o
 
Booboos, good advice! Instructor suggested today to give him treats at destination. I was just thinking, maybe if I plan my rides better, I can drop off his blue bucket at the furthest point before we set out! That would be good practice for stops on endurance rides, too...hmm.
 
spookypony said:
Booboos, good advice! Instructor suggested today to give him treats at destination. I was just thinking, maybe if I plan my rides better, I can drop off his blue bucket at the furthest point before we set out! That would be good practice for stops on endurance rides, too...hmm.
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ah but then he will start stopping at acossiated place expecting a treat/bucket
 
spookypony said:
:D jhoward! I've a friend that's willing to help if the waiting-it-out method doesn't seem to be bearing fruit; I'm sure she'll happily carry my phone alongside the Super-Soaker.

I'm another one that usually gets put on the tall horses---and their spooks really feel like slo-mo after this pony. Observers tend to assume I'm a big wimp, until they actually witness one of his "episodes"... :o
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oh fabby thanks!

and .. *wants big horsies back!* ive gone from an 18.2 and 16.2 to a shortbacked 14.2 cob honestley I feel your pain. and constantly think oh actully my seat is quiet good.
 
My first ever pony was a planter. I sat it out for however long it took. She would plant at the side of the road, so I just had to wave the traffic past.

I also discovered that if a used a schooling whip right next to her tail (you do have to lean back), that she went forwards. i think it took about 2 months to really get over it, but she never returned to the habit.

Shame, cos Spookypony was going so well last summer.
 
jhoward, the trick would be that the bucket would be at a different location each time! We have a lot of possible hacking routes around here...it would be a royal pain to get it there, though, so definitely something either to do with help, or to use a pocketable treat that's really really memorable to him.

Britestar, you're giving me hope, thanks! :)

One thing I've finally understood is that I need to take the pressure off myself. It'll take as long as it takes. And if in the meantime, we don't get out to much stuff, that's just how it is. I've taken a close look at my teaching schedule for this term, to make sure I can find blocks of time big enough so that I don't feel rushed when dealing with him. I think that's a biggie.
 
I wouldnt get off horse when planting tbh - then they learn that because of the trick, they don't have to work anymore ;)

I would get a day when you have no plans, go out for a ride and wait for the plant. When he plants, do absolutely nothing.

If he tries to turn, stop him. If he starts to go back, stop him. Do not make or let him move an inch.
Important thing is to not let him move AT ALL - cannot turn his neck, stamp, move backwards.

Then, after a suitable while (maybe 10mins?) and he is visibly bored, ask him to move forwards.

If he does not, then make him stand for a while. The he soon learns that the decision to stop or move is your choice :)
 
Have had similar issues with the idiot madam... total stubborn, trying-to-get-away-with-murder witchyness at random, as and when the mood so takes her.

Tried various things but seemed to have a breakthrough a few weeks ago... She stops I say calm and nicely as to walk on. She is not allowed to turn and try to avoid backwards but that is slightly trickier. When there is no response or a backward one I ask again by applying my spur and gradually increase pressure, slowly turning my toes out and verbally reinforcing the command (I also stay completely calm and do not fight - just make it increasingly unpleasent for her to not give me what I want in a unflappy, unfussy way) until I get ANY forward response (this can be one foot or sometimes just her neck and head moving in the right direction). As soon as she does this she gets verbal praise, a rub with one hand on the neck/wither and I instantly remove the spur but keep my leg on. The more forward she goes the more praise she gets and I then just keep my leg gently on. If she stops/doesn't make any further progress (i.e. moves her neck but not her legs) I start the process again. She's fairly smart and it didn't take long to work out forward=nice praise and softness from leg/spur; not forwards=spur of increasing pressure in not very pleasant manner that doesn't get removed until I get forwards.

First time I did this I had a 5 min battle then forward with no fuss (and if she wants to trot/canter, even on the road, then I let her until I am happy she is nolonger backing off then I'll bring her back down a gear). Second time she was being a sod coupled with a massive fire on the side of the road just ahead. 3 mins and she went straight past. Big improvement on having to get off after 15mins and lead her (unless I'm in company, which is rarely an issue). oddly enough she has since been a million times more responsive and actually wants to canter/medium trot everywhere if I so much as hint at forwards, lol!!
 
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only_me said:
I wouldnt get off horse when planting tbh - then they learn that because of the trick, they don't have to work anymore ;)
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Yeah, I only get off when there's no choice...such as in the middle of the road, where I can't wait him out, because of, er, traffic and such...and if I do get off, I lead him where I need him to be, get back on, and keep going. I hope that will work out, because the middle of the road really isn't a place to argue with a horse! :)

I would get a day when you have no plans, go out for a ride and wait for the plant. When he plants, do absolutely nothing.
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That's the plan! We'll see what he does tomorrow. Will keep updating! At the very least, we'll be useful for entertainment value! :D
 
Thanks, Ginn. A good reminder not to start flapping---I found keeping my temper the hardest thing today. And staying warm while staying put! Will put on an extra layer tomorrow, and try to be unflappable.
 
With T I would find myself getting quite wound up - she is very sharp and can buck for England when p*ssed off. However I found this worked really well for me as there were no sudden movements, I had the control and I could hold the pressure at a constant at any point. A sudden boot with spurs would quite possibly end up with me in orbit but this way she's only had a small bronc (and it was forwards!!) and that was it - I simply did not remove the pressure and kept my leg on without the classic pony club kick. I think the fact it is so subtle helps as there is nothing sudden to pick a fight with, just the more you make me wait, the more this is going to feel very uncomfortable. Provided you remove the spur the instant there is a positive reaction (but not the leg) I'd have thought he'd get the idea fairly quickly. It just means waiting it out is not only boring but as I said above it gets increasingly more uncomfortable. I know with T a water pistol would have either no effect or she would just double barrel it and probably desposit me with disgust in the process!! (We have had tarpaulin, wooden (jumping) poles and coats slapped against her back end in the past with no effect!)
 
my mare was a witch when I brought her, luckly I was at a yard with a really quiet rd, she was stop spin and run backwards. I found I could tell when she was thinking about it, and prepared myself, if she spun I made her go back the way she came from however hard it was. she would also run at ditches and back into them, so I picked my fights near small ditches, she went down a few then gave up. I did sit and wait but as some of the others have said I ask every few mins really quietly and with my voice but if she didnt move forward she didnt move!!! I did crack it so there is hope and now she is amazing
 
I've found this post very interesting as having a similar planting issue plus various others! He's a 16.3hh shirexcob and although he hasn't got a nasty bone in him, by god is he stubborn! He is ex riding school and therefore thinks he knows all the tricks!!!

This is what I've been doing in the hope I can get him out solo hacking (at the moment we're only hacking in company) so in field where he tries all his evasions we are -:

Planting - waiting it out but he has to stay straight and not do rubbing legs etc etc - he does soon get bored and will walk on.

Napping - I turn him in a circle until he is back the way I want him and then carry on.

Spooking - ignore the spook and come back round again and again till he stops spooking at whatever!

Trying to rush back to the stable end of field - we walk to halt transitions or trot to halt and he has to stand for 5 secs quietly before giving the aid to walk on.

Oh and rescue remedy for me - amazing stuff!! Does this sound about right, it does seem to be working.
 
I think you are quite right to get off if you are going down the road - they are dangerous and if he throws you off into the road, not only will it hurt, but could cause a nasty accident
 
Thanks again everyone with your supportive tales of similar woes...

Planting Progress Report, Day 2:

Decided to stay dismounted until we were in the woods, so that planting on the road wouldn't even come up. Mounted in the woods. Two very brief attempts to plant, each lasting only a second or so, but walked on under protest when I got emphatic. When we got to the problematic junction from yesterday, he walked straight through, no urging necessary! :) We got to the riding school, he got a carrot and a short wait, and then we went home. He was pony-on-a-mission again, but felt less explosive than yesterday. :D

I've decided to put schooling (in arenas) on hold entirely until the napping-outside problem is sorted, because I need to use a different strategy in the school, I think. Tomorrow he's off, but will go out again Friday and see how he is.
 
And a third report (don't worry, won't post any more reports on this topic for at least a few weeks):

Two plantings today at usual spots, both fairly short, and overcome with persistent gentle nagging. The rest of the time we got a very forward, free-swinging walk. I think we're on the right track! We'll start adding further loops into our hacks tomorrow. Today, we started adding trots back into the proceedings: the ice is mostly gone, and he appears less of a pony-grenade after a few days out and about. :)

Two lovely rides on other nice, sane, forward-going horses have made me feel much better about things, too. :)
 
I find two schooling whips really useful as you can flick equally from behind just to send them forwards and you can also react quickly when you feel them begin to slow down. They soon get the message and its not as confrontational.
 
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