PLE & Severe Worm Damage and Prevention of Worm Damage.

[piebaldsparkle]

In the light of Urasio's death (see report - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/311157.html )

A spokesman for Norwich HSE said the cause of the horse’s death was protein-losing entropathy due to severe worm damage.
“The damage was long standing and no reflection on the last owners, who only owned the horse for three months,” he said.

SAID - not alleged, and not hinted and not speculated. SAID.

This is fact. This is on public record.

Anyone else lost one from PLE?

Was the PLE caused by severe worm damage?

Are you confident in your worming routine?

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Whilst I have dealt with horses with high worm burdens (youngsters who had from low end dealers in the main). I have lucky never seen one suffering from PLE (sounds horrific). I do however ensure regular worm counts are done and horses are annual dose for Tape worm and Encysted, combined with poo picking.

 

[FairyLights]

Whilst I have dealt with horses with high worm burdens (youngsters who had from low end dealers in the main). I have lucky never seen one suffering from PLE (sounds horrific). I do however ensure regular worm counts are done and horses are annual dose for Tape worm and Encysted, combined with poo picking.

same here.

 

[lannerch]

What is ple?

Agree with worming any new horse for tapeworm and encysted redworm then regular worm counts with the above least annually. Not so strict on pooh picking as long as the fields are large and not overgrazed.

 

[carthorse15]

I lost my boy a year ago this week to PLE. It was not caused by worm damage (I followed a worm programme) and had him 10 years. PM revealed inflammation in gut - likened to Chrons disease. PLE comes on suddenly and it is very distressing to watch them fade away if steroids do not work.

Poor horse.

 

[lannerch]

(Meant worming with the above at least annually regular worm counts throughout the year)

 

[piebaldsparkle]

What is ple?

protein losing enteropathy

http://www.myhealthyhorses.com/protein-losing-entropathy-ple/

Heavy parasitism is just one cause.

 

[Zebedee]

Mine have worm counts, annual tapeworm etc, but what would worry me is that there is no way of knowing if the worms carried in a new arrival have developed a resistance to worming drugs.
Resistance of redworm to benzimidazole-based wormers (i.e. fenbendazole used in Panacur Equine Guard) is well known and documented, hence the need for a five day course. Alarmingly there are now incidences being reported of worms beginning to show resistance to Ivermectins as well. The main cause of resistance building up is inaccurate dosing - over dosing being as bad as under dosing.
It's also known that the use of a five day wormer can damage the gut lining in the same way that a mass evacuation of encysted redworm could.
Wormers such as Pramox & Equest use Moxidectin as their active ingredient & are milder on the horses intestine, but I know my vet is not alone in having concerns at these wormers being used so frequently. Some vets would prefer that they were only used in extreme cases of worm burden, under veterinary supervision so that there would be far less chance of any worm resistance to the drug occurring, as is already happening in some parts of the world

 

[piebaldsparkle]

I lost my boy a year ago this week to PLE.

Poor you and poor horse, sound horrific xxxx

 

[Zebedee]

I lost my boy a year ago this week to PLE. It was not caused by worm damage (I followed a worm programme) and had him 10 years. PM revealed inflammation in gut - likened to Chrons disease. PLE comes on suddenly and it is very distressing to watch them fade away if steroids do not work.

Poor horse.

I remember that C , it was so sad.x

Interesting to note though that there are other causes than worm damage though.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Interesting to note though that there are other causes than worm damage though.

I was well aware of other causes, however in Urasio's case a PM proved his death was protein-losing entropathy due to severe worm damage.

 

[lannerch]

Now this thread is really interesting thanks for the link piebaldsparkle ple sounds horrific so sorry carthorse15 that must have been devastating.

If we can't routinely worm with moxidectine how can we protect against Undetectable encysted redworm

 

[EstherYoung]

Our yard lost a horse a year ago following an encysted redworm migration, and it was acute protein leakage which killed him. He had severe odema, he colicked, and his skin started to peel off. The yard has some of the best field management of anywhere I've ever been, and the colt had been regularly wormed with moxidectin so clearly he had developed resistance to moxidectin.

Our vet was out to one of ours last week and he said that since the colt died, his practice have lost a further 11 young horses to the same thing. In fact he had just come from another young horse who probably wasn't going to make it. They now treat any swellings in a young horse as an emergency regardless of the worming history as there is just so much resistance about.

Worming just isn't as simple as 'do it regularly and poo pick' any more. None of us are safe.

 

[ester]

there is only reported resistance to fenbendazole and pyrantel for tapes (in this country) so atm this should not be a reason for issues/noone being safe because there are atm, alternatives to the above.

Worming really should be simple, but too much 'old' information/habits tend to exist which really won't help the problem of resistance development.

 

[EstherYoung]

Ester (snap!),

There is reported and documented resistance to moxidectin in other species. There is anecdotal evidence of moxidectin resistance in horses, and the concern is how quickly that resistance is taking hold bearing in mind that it is relatively new as a licensed equine wormer. I can assure you that the colt on our yard was experiencing moxidectin resistance. If he wasn't, he'd still be alive. As soon as he got sick, we did all his fieldmates who had been under the same worming regime with a 5 day fenbendazole course and on day two, three of them expelled a lot of immature redworm. The whole field were allegedly still within the 'live' period for their last dose of moxidectin.

 

[Zuzan]

............................
It's also known that the use of a five day wormer can damage the gut lining in the same way that a mass evacuation of encysted redworm could.
Wormers such as Pramox & Equest use Moxidectin as their active ingredient & are milder on the horses intestine, .................... (

I thought panacur 5 day guard was used by rescue centres as it's less aggressive so less likely to cause colic ?? in my experience Pramox is very very aggressive and the one time I used (had to as that's what the then yard demanded.. partly why I'm not there any longer.. ) I saw resultant event lines and other signs of gut disturbance.. (this wasn't caused by worms as had had 2 years of low worm counts and had veterinary supervised worming programme.

Moxidectin is used in Pramox along with Praziquantel and Moxidectin is according to my vets stronger than Ivermectin.

 

[ester]

iirc there is triple resistance in on a horse farm in mexico to everything.. the same has happened with sheep over here I think so basically they cannot keep the host animal on that land for a number of years due to the possibility of reinfection with resistant larvae.

Your story is therefore rather concerning, as that would mean that your yard might have resistance larvae the worm guy on site would like to advise that all new horses are isolated and wormed with ivermectin, and if you count any afterwards you get rid before they contaminate your ground.

eta zuzan yes, despite the poss resistance issues panacur is advised, this should be followed up sometime later with moxidectin though for full coverage.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Mine have worm counts, annual tapeworm etc, but what would worry me is that there is no way of knowing if the worms carried in a new arrival have developed a resistance to worming drugs.
Resistance of redworm to benzimidazole-based wormers (i.e. fenbendazole used in Panacur Equine Guard) is well known and documented, hence the need for a five day course. Alarmingly there are now incidences being reported of worms beginning to show resistance to Ivermectins as well. The main cause of resistance building up is inaccurate dosing - over dosing being as bad as under dosing.
It's also known that the use of a five day wormer can damage the gut lining in the same way that a mass evacuation of encysted redworm could.
Wormers such as Pramox & Equest use Moxidectin as their active ingredient & are milder on the horses intestine, but I know my vet is not alone in having concerns at these wormers being used so frequently. Some vets would prefer that they were only used in extreme cases of worm burden, under veterinary supervision so that there would be far less chance of any worm resistance to the drug occurring, as is already happening in some parts of the world

Mine too have counts done and are wormed according to their count, but do have the tapeworm worming for sure. I also weight tape my horses before any wormer is given as well.
I have used both Ivermectin and Moxidectin on my horses and as far as I am aware I don't know of any resistance to worms in any of them, judging by counts.
However my own speculation as to why we are seeing increased resistance to wormers is because yards either don't follow worming programmes or are too strict with them.
I have been on a yard where I was asked to poo pick my own paddocks but yard owner didn't do their's or at least not very often and then it was scattered in all weathers and not removed from the fields. There was also no communication about worming and horses that were frequently moving on and off the yard.
One of my horses developed summer sores whilst there which are caused by stomach worm larvae and flies. I have never seen this in 6 years of owning horses and nearly 30 of being around them. My other horses all lost weight at this yard, and I don't believe it was just the lack of grass that was causing it either as they were being supplemented daily hay as well as odd feeds. The mare in particular suffered the worse of the lot and I am convinced she became riddled with worms. She was wormed twice in pretty quick succession ( one to treat the summer sores) and again after moving onto another paddock. The paddocks were simply not being given a break and horses were swapped and changed around them. Mine stayed on the same until they had another paddock to use but those ones were not fresh ones either as there had been up to 11/12 horses kept on that field before mine were allowed on. The amount of poo I had to clean up before mine went on the paddocks was horrendous, and yet why were these people not poo picking like I was asked to?
I actually went past the place again the other week and nothing has changed. Someone else has moved on with horses by the looks of it but all the taped up paddocks are in use, every single one. I was told the paddocks would be given breaks but obviously not. Judging by how my horses deteriorated when there I believe they are what you would describe as horse sick. I would hope that any of the horses that leave the yard are wormed correctly by the buyer as this person deals in horses!
Another yard I have been on had a worming programme in which all the horses on the yard were wormed at the same time. I don't think they were strict with the product but just the active ingredient which I think from memory they would rotate. I don't know if they do the same now or if they allow worm counts. No poo picking except if owner decided to.
Another place had no worming programme in place although they did have a calendar when horses were due for worming. However it was based on individual horse and not by fields which it should have done to stop cross infection. Again no worm counts were done, and neither any poo picking.
One yard had no worming programme and no communication between owners when horses were wormed and what with, so again a failed system, no poo picking either.
Another yard had no programme or worm count system and owners were left to monitor worming themselves. Which would work so long as your horse was kept as an individual or with people who were well informed about why the need to worm. No poo picking, owners would do it themselves or yard owners would but not very often and not enough to have any effect.
One yard had a worming programme as such and yard owner actively encouraged worm counts and would even buy wormers in, a sensible solution. They were also well informed and knew about the ivermectin resistance. Did not have to poo pick though, it was by choice.
A yard that I know of follows a very strict programme, however it is too strict and imo I cannot see how it would work. The horses are not worm counted. THEY have to be wormed, with exactly the same product that the yard owner says each time ( except for dual worming in winter but again it was the same manufacturer, just with the tapeworm wormer). You could not even worm your horse with the same active ingredient it had to be the same wormer. They would not rotate the wormers either between ivermectin, moxidectin and others. I cannot remember though if it was the ivermectin one they used, I think it was? So therefore every horse on that yard will eventually build up a resistance as the active ingredient is the same year in year out. They did poo pick though.