Please be kind

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Kirstd33

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Ok, as some of you know from previous threads I bought coblet last June, as a novice returning adult rider purely to hack alongside my teenage daughter on her loan pony of 18 months. It’s been a rollercoaster as coblet has been far from straightforward at all as he has been quirky and we had a lot to sort out. Then we were kinda getting some traction then he went lame in the spring and was diagnosed with bilateral damage to his annular ligaments for which had surgery. We’ve completed his rehab plan to the letter and the vet has been out at every month to check out progress and move us onto the next stage. Now nearly 6 months post op we’ve been given the green light for trotting and more straight line canters. But coblet is so explosive and unpredictable we have 1 good hack and then 1 where he spooks and spins and I came off on the road, 1 good one and a couple of weeks ago we went into the field for a little canter and he broncked and then bolted and the only way I could stop him was a one rein stop into the hedge, then again 1 gentle hack and then tonight he was dreadful, trotting down a bridle path and then he veered off down a steep slope, dropped a shoulder, fell in a ditch and I honestly thought we were going to end up wrapped round a tree. I ended up on his neck so dismounted and we walked back to the yard as was covered in sweat. I’m at my wits end with him and don’t know what to do for the best as I adore him but he’s not happy. I have been having regular lessons so I’m not the worst rider and I regularly exercise 2 horses for my friend including an OTTB who can be a handful but nothing compared to my hairy little coblet. Then just to complicate things my daughters share pony sadly had to be put to sleep in august due to colic so now daughter has nothing to ride at the yard and although I do hack out with other liveries who I get on we with it’s not the same.
I think I know he needs to be retired at a loan home as I’d never let him fall into the wrong hands but I can’t afford to keep him as a pet as I still really want to ride. Happy to answer any questions as there’s quite a lot to unpack I know .
 
You’ve put everything and more in getting this chap right, and you haven’t even owned him for long.

He’s not happy, you’re not happy. In your shoes I’d certainly consider PTS in both of your interests.

Good loan homes wanting just a companion horse are vanishingly rare. I’m not sure that he’s comfortable enough to be fully retired even if you had your own land.
 
Have you had a bodyworker since his surgery? I only ask because my cob was similar and when I had a chiropractor out (just as a thing to tick off really), she found him very tight pretty much everywhere. She said surgery can do that, because of having to be lifted by their legs. Has he been allowed normal turnout? My boy was mentally affected by box rest and in hand walking and it took a while for him to return to his normal self. I'm not sure he was ever as chilled as he was before it, but time did improve things.
 
I do not think 'retiring as a pet to a loan home' is necessarily the best plan unless you specifically KNOW someone looking. There's too much risk he'd be (mis)sold on, someone would try to ride him, etc., and it puts both his welfare and those who handle him at risk sadly if he's unpredictable and explosive. To be acting the way he is he's unhappy in someway and euthanasia would be safeguarding him against the possibility of an unpleasant future and removing him from his discomfort in the present, though it's undoubtedly a sad decision to have to make from your perspective, assuming you've explored all feasibly options for what could be causing the explosiveness.
 
meleeka said:
Have you had a bodyworker since his surgery? I only ask because my cob was similar and when I had a chiropractor out (just as a thing to tick off really), she found him very tight pretty much everywhere. She said surgery can do that, because of having to be lifted by their legs. Has he been allowed normal turnout? My boy was mentally affected by box rest and in hand walking and it took a while for him to return to his normal self. I'm not sure he was ever as chilled as he was before it, but time did improve things.
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Yes he’s had both physio and a mctimoney chiropractor twice since his surgery and we do regular In hand pile work and carrot stretches daily. He’s now on regular turnout 8-5 every day and in at night as per yard routine .
 
FieldOrnaments said:
I do not think 'retiring as a pet to a loan home' is necessarily the best plan unless you specifically KNOW someone looking. There's too much risk he'd be (mis)sold on, someone would try to ride him, etc., and it puts both his welfare and those who handle him at risk sadly if he's unpredictable and explosive. To be acting the way he is he's unhappy in someway and euthanasia would be safeguarding him against the possibility of an unpleasant future and removing him from his discomfort in the present, though it's undoubtedly a sad decision to have to make from your perspective, assuming you've explored all feasibly options for what could be causing the explosiveness.
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Yes this has crossed my mind although I would be utterly devastated
 
A list of questions, simply because I know from experience it's so easy to overlook something. Please don't take offence if some of them sound basic

Have you discussed this behaviour with your vet and got him to check him over again?

Have you asked the vet about bute to see if that makes a difference? If it does that suggests pain somewhere.

How often is he getting ridden?

Are there other common factors to bad rides, eg certain company, routes or weather?

What's he being fed?

What time of day do you ride? Does he need a leg stretch after a night in or is he anticipating dinner not a ride?

What happens if you get a good (maybe your instructor?) confident rider to hack him every day for a week?

Have you had tack and teeth checked? After surgery, time off, and now maybe moving differently it could be his saddle needs altering.


I wonder if rather than being in pain he feels better than he has in a while and you're reaping the "benefit" of this. Not all cobs are quiet and ones that aren't can pack quite a punch physically and mentally.
 
Try not riding him, take him for short inhand walks, gradually lengthen these inhand walks when he gets used to it. I think your asking a lot of your cob. He's come back from injury and is no doubt excited at being out and it sounds like he needs more experience. I spent about a year just leading my cob out after he had time off. Then it was ride for five minutes and lead for ten on and off. We can now hack ridden. I certainly wouldn't be PTS. Theres a good FB page called the non ridden equine,it non judgemental and theres so much to do, going inland walkies,long reining,horse agility.
 
Nari said:
A list of questions, simply because I know from experience it's so easy to overlook something. Please don't take offence if some of them sound basic

Have you discussed this behaviour with your vet and got him to check him over again?

Have you asked the vet about bute to see if that makes a difference? If it does that suggests pain somewhere.

How often is he getting ridden?

Are there other common factors to bad rides, eg certain company, routes or weather?

What's he being fed?

What time of day do you ride? Does he need a leg stretch after a night in or is he anticipating dinner not a ride?

What happens if you get a good (maybe your instructor?) confident rider to hack him every day for a week?

Have you had tack and teeth checked? After surgery, time off, and now maybe moving differently it could be his saddle needs altering.


I wonder if rather than being in pain he feels better than he has in a while and you're reaping the "benefit" of this. Not all cobs are quiet and ones that aren't can pack quite a punch physically and mentally.
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I welcome questions as need to know that I’m not missing anything, so yea I’ve discussed his behaviour with the vet who feels it’s NOT now pain related but just to cover ourselves he is still on 1 Bute/day split am and pm.
He’s ridden 3-5 times/week just 345-1.5 hr hacks either with company or solo. Mainly walk, 3-5 mins trot and the odd canter where the ground is good enough. Usual routes, times vary and there is no real correlation. He’s out on goodish grass, has ad-lib hay overnight and a handful of soothe and gain am and pm for his bute and supplements.
His saddle has been refitted twice since surgery, he’s seen the dentist and I ride him Bitless as he puts his tongue over every bit I’ve tried (another complication)
My last resort is I’m trying by to find a sympathetic freelance rider to come out and help me
 
The grass is still growing well in my area at the moment, in fact it's better than in the spring, so if he's on goodish grazing that may be supplying more energy than he needs for his current workload. Can you put him on some poorer grass and see if that helps?
 
Is it worth if he’s had all the checks, back, teeth, ulcers, yada yada, to see if there is someone on the yard or local you can pay to give him a two week boot camp? IF you think it’s something a pro could ride through? If he can hold up to it at this stage just some good hard work? It’s hard when they are coming back from injury but you’ve got to weigh the pros and cons. Maybe they can do a lot on long reins and straight lines to minimise risk, but get him good and tired, and reset the expectations? I think some horses (and a lot of cobs) really respect hard graft if they are feeling well…

If that isn’t an option or doesn’t work I don’t think anyone would blame you for PTS. Naughty horses rarely land on their feet, and sometimes are also not the risk to yourself or others. I’d be reluctant to loan as there is always the horror stories of ponies being sold from underneath the owner, drugged, or worst. It’s a heartbreaking choice to make but sometimes for the best. There is a huge welfare issue in this country and the need for companions is a lot smaller then the amount needing a good home imho. Horses are an expensive way to make yourself miserable if they are beyond fixing. Big hugs as it’s not a nice position to find yourself in.
 
Rehab can be a slog so I do sympathise. Could you get some sedalin off your vets and see how he is to hack on 1-2ml of that? I had one mare who was on 1.5/2ml for the first 2 months of rehab - she was explosive and very athletic so it was the only option really. It’s not always pain, particularly if they’ve had a stint of box rest and time off, the adrenaline of going out/doing something different is just too much to cope with.
Otherwise I think you should be able to find a freelancer willing to work with him - he doesn’t sound dangerous, just very fresh!
I’d also aim for physio every 6 weeks if you can. Part of rehab is getting their muscles working in different ways to previously so physio will help keep things going in the right direction. And they’re often the first to flag up compensatory pain before the horse is actually showing lame.
 
Sometimes cobs can appear quiet at first sight but under stress they are anything but.
This can sometimes be due to the way they were first trained in their youth and they have no solid early training and schooling behind them, just got on and ridden or stuck in a cart. I've seen it quite a few times when the cob ends up in a home with a more novice owner/rider and everything starts falling apart.
I'm not saying this is definitely the case here but if it might be the case it is worth someone taking him back to first principles and filling in the missing steps in his education.
Putting his tongue over the bit is another sign of less than ideal early training. Cobs often have fat tongues and a Myler ported snaffle or Bomber tongue relief bit may be worth trying.
 
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Gloi said:
Sometimes cobs can appear quiet at first sight but under stress they are anything but.y
This can sometimes be due to the way they were first trained in their youth and they have no solid early training and schooling behind them, just got on and ridden or stuck in a cart. I've seen it quite a few times when the cob ends up in a home with a more novice owner/rider and everything starts falling apart.
I'm not saying this is definitely the case here but if it might be the case it is worth someone taking him back to first principles and filling in the missing steps in his education.
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Agree with this. Cob does not always mean quiet. Very often there are big gaps in their early education and as they are strong in the neck and short in the body they can use this against their rider. I think I have heard of more riding problems with cobs than with most other sorts.

But coming back from injury is a worrying time. I have related this before of when my "dope on a rope" horse turned into a raving maniac after a few weeks of box rest. I really thought he was going to kill both of us. Sedalin didn't work. I was lucky enough to have a livery yard close and the YO there knew him well. She was shocked at his appalling behaviour. So much that she contacted the vet who prescribed a short acting sedative for daily use and said it is often given to TB colts when they are being broken in as it just calms them down enough to be ridden sensibly. But the vet knew the YO well and it might be the sort of thing that they are wary of handing out.

But you need the pony quiet enough to be ridden and given enough work but you don't want to do too much as it is still recovering.

I would discuss with the vet and if in the clear for physical problems, then a couple of weeks - or even a month - of regular work at a professional yard might put him back on the right road.
 
Two things:

1) soundness. Turn the horse out for 3 mths to complete the healing. Having just had the aha moment myself after a serious ski-ing accident requiring surgery, despite being declared sound by surgeon/Physio after 6mths, I was advised to give it another 3 months before resuming normal activities.

Magic advice and had made me think in the past I’ve returned my horses to work as soon as vet has declared them sound only for them to display what were then considered training or behavioural issues. No evidence but I now feel they could have benefited from another 3mths in field and some hand walking/ground work during that period.

2) The Fearless Horse by Joanna Day - get yourself a copy. I’m a visual learner and this book in simplistic visual form takes you through a series of training exercises for success. My hubby is a trainer specialising in problem horses. We argue if we are in the arena together, so he got me a copy of this book and said “if you won’t listen to me, read this instead and let me know if you have any questions”. Nailed it - it’s laid out in a way that works for my brain and helped me understand what my poor husband has been trying to teach me over the years.

I think both you and your coblet will enjoy it and get some results.
 
Thanks everyone, for all your suggestions and things to think about. I got him from a small, novice teenager who had become frightened of him due to his well established line in dropped shoulders and bucking so they were overjoyed to sell him to a small adult. This should have put me off but I naively thought he would suit as a happy hacker along my daughter and once I’d sorted out his bolshy ground behaviour he’s actually a nice pony to deal with if a bit grumpy. And we were going better, having lessons and taking part in low level clinics until he became lame. I do think his early education was poor with massive gaps ans now at 17 he’s set in his ways? I’m going to find a good freelance rider to give me another ridden opinion and see if they think the situation can be improved as o honestly think it’s only a matter of time before we get hurt and at 46 with metal in my back I can’t really risk that.
 
Kirstd33 said:
Haven’t checked that tbh
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do it now, type 1 test is about 35quid, 100 percent accurate and could explain the behaviour. When mine was symptomatic, she nearly went up and over into a water filled ditch with me, she scared the living daylights out of me, yet non symptomatic, she was the safest but still fun pony ever.
 
Bonnie Allie said:
Two things:

1) soundness. Turn the horse out for 3 mths to complete the healing. Having just had the aha moment myself after a serious ski-ing accident requiring surgery, despite being declared sound by surgeon/Physio after 6mths, I was advised to give it another 3 months before resuming normal activities.

Magic advice and had made me think in the past I’ve returned my horses to work as soon as vet has declared them sound only for them to display what were then considered training or behavioural issues. No evidence but I now feel they could have benefited from another 3mths in field and some hand walking/ground work during that period.

2) The Fearless Horse by Joanna Day - get yourself a copy. I’m a visual learner and this book in simplistic visual form takes you through a series of training exercises for success. My hubby is a trainer specialising in problem horses. We argue if we are in the arena together, so he got me a copy of this book and said “if you won’t listen to me, read this instead and let me know if you have any questions”. Nailed it - it’s laid out in a way that works for my brain and helped me understand what my poor husband has been trying to teach me over the years.

I think both you and your coblet will enjoy it and get some results.
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Agree with this. It's almost impossible to rule out pain sadly, and this sort of behaviour is usually pain even if everyone's struggling to find it. And disheartening when you've been through all this already.

Some gentle connection type work would be a really good idea, I've seen good press about Connie Colfox (hope that's right), and that book sounds good.

Sometimes polework is just too much, though it's given out by loads of bodyworkers and trainers. If the horse is still moving dysfunctionally then polework often simply places extra load on the dysfunction.

Have a look at Annie Dillons FB page, her course is amazing but not dirt cheap, but you'll get an idea of functional movement just from her page.
 
I would definitely check for pssm, but bitless could be your issue I'm afraid.

A good bit fitter with a variety of brands might be helpful. I ride one of mine bitless because of an issue in her mouth but she's generally well schooled. My younger cob can be very sharp and would need a lot more education for me to go bitless with him.
 
If vet is sure nothing hurts then…

Could he just be being bored and full of autumn spooks? Autumn grass is rich - I’ve got four in the winter field with more grass, and everyone under the age of 16 is being a bit fun to be around right now! Spooking, shooting off, on edge.

What bitless bridle do you have?
 
SEL said:
I would definitely check for pssm, but bitless could be your issue I'm afraid.

A good bit fitter with a variety of brands might be helpful. I ride one of mine bitless because of an issue in her mouth but she's generally well schooled. My younger cob can be very sharp and would need a lot more education for me to go bitless with him.
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I am going to test for PSSM for sure, as I have heard its rife in cobs and Cob x's. I should say I have had a bit specialist out and despite an hour and an hour and another follow up appointment she did not find a single bit he didn't get his tongue over so it was on her recommendation that we try bitless. We even tried a specialist bit with Spoons on either side "guaranteed" not to get his tongue over, he did, one of the sides got lodged on the roof of his mouth and he nearly couldn't breathe until I jumped off and extracated it. So since his ridden rehab started i have been riding him ina flower hackamore.
 
maya2008 said:
If vet is sure nothing hurts then…

Could he just be being bored and full of autumn spooks? Autumn grass is rich - I’ve got four in the winter field with more grass, and everyone under the age of 16 is being a bit fun to be around right now! Spooking, shooting off, on edge.

What bitless bridle do you have?
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Hand on heart - I'm not convinced nothing hurts to be honest, I just wish he could talk. And I'm reluctant to pop this down to rich autumn grass as he displayed milder behaviour of the same ilk even before his lameness was picked up and it was that unpredictability that led him to be sold to me by his previous family. This is just so sad as I do'nt believe any of this is from a place of out and out badness or maliciousness just poor initial training, circumstance and I believe undiscovered pain?
 
You've had loads of really good advice BUT I wuld add that there is no end to what you could check with any horse. And what you could try ranging from more investigations, to bodywork, to types of exercise, to 2nd opinions to supplements to 101 diffferent alternative type treatments.

I had that with my daughter's pony and it was utterly overwhelming.

At some point you (anyone) has to decide enough is enough and draw the line. Your pony has had extensive appropriate input over a long period of time, and a vet managed rehab plan. This then shrinks your choices to what next which is still tricky, but a reduced set of options can be helpful.

So if I were you I'd think: Do I want to carry on investigating/trying new treatment approaches. If so, do I need to limit the time-frame and costs of further investgation/treatment. Be guided by your vet here.

If not (and no-one would blame you for saying you've come to the end of the road from that point of view) then the next question is what is best longer term for BOTH of you. You matter too in this relationship.

Keep with a view to riding again, sell, keep and retire, loan home, PTS.....

Sounds like you don't want to ride ( and I wouldn't - sounds like this is a well established behaviour. All horses have a 'go to' when things aren't going well. And I would not want to be on him, given his history).
Would be irresponsible to sell on in my view.
Loan homes with horses with issues are very hard to find. And is he happy anyway? How could you work out if he's full if himself because he's feeling GREAT, or is in pain. My money is on the latter but I don;t know the pony. Loan homes CAN be found - I found one via HHO - but the pony was healthy and happy as long as you did not get on him. And was only 8.
PTS is not a welfare issue for an older horse with possible pain and behavioural problems. Safeguards against far worse fates.

I feel for you - it's an awful situaiton but your welfare also matters.
 
Ambers Echo said:
You've had loads of really good advice BUT I wuld add that there is no end to what you could check with any horse. And what you could try ranging from more investigations, to bodywork, to types of exercise, to 2nd opinions to supplements to 101 diffferent alternative type treatments.

I had that with my daughter's pony and it was utterly overwhelming.

At some point you (anyone) has to decide enough is enough and draw the line. Your pony has had extensive appropriate input over a long period of time, and a vet managed rehab plan. This then shrinks your choices to what next which is still tricky, but a reduced set of options can be helpful.

So if I were you I'd think: Do I want to carry on investigating/trying new treatment approaches. If so, do I need to limit the time-frame and costs of further investgation/treatment. Be guided by your vet here.

If not (and no-one would blame you for saying you've come to the end of the road from that point of view) then the next question is what is best longer term for BOTH of you. You matter too in this relationship.

Keep with a view to riding again, sell, keep and retire, loan home, PTS.....

Sounds like you don't want to ride ( and I wouldn't - sounds like this is a well established behaviour. All horses have a 'go to' when things aren't going well. And I would not want to be on him, given his history).
Would be irresponsible to sell on in my view.
Loan homes with horses with issues are very hard to find. And is he happy anyway? How could you work out if he's full if himself because he's feeling GREAT, or is in pain. My money is on the latter but I don;t know the pony. Loan homes CAN be found - I found one via HHO - but the pony was healthy and happy as long as you did not get on him. And was only 8.
PTS is not a welfare issue for an older horse with possible pain and behavioural problems. Safeguards against far worse fates.

I feel for you - it's an awful situaiton but your welfare also matters.
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Thanks and I think you've summed the situation up with more more eloquency than my ramblings have. I ADORE this pony and I honestly believed that I could sort out his problems, understand him, forge a relationship and have a happy hacking future, but his issues seem just too unsurmountable and as you say where do I draw the line financially and time-wise as this could go on forever.

I've been forcing myself to ride him regularly now for about 8 weeks as understood that we needed to increase his fitness and strength but honestly every time I feel like I'm taking my life in my hands. And when working FT and with 3 kids riding is supposed to be my relaxation time and also I regularly ride a friends 2 amazing horses and and they just serve to make me more upset when I get back on coblet who is so tense and unpredictable.
It's all I witter about to non-horsey husband and he cant understand it upsetting me so much?

I'm going to arrange a freelance rider to come out and ride him (no-one at my livery yard wants to!) not to push him through anything but to give me a more professional opinion and then am going to start looking for a loan home as a companion, if that cant be found then I guess I'm looking at the alternative :(
 
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