Please help at witts end!

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Songbird

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Some of you may know that i recently posted a thread about my horse napping - assuming it was a glitch i have continued to ride etc - she now does it 2 or 3 times whilst we are out hacking often on a very busy road spinning round!! i have been through so much to find this horse & apart from a very lazy walk she has been golden - i am fast losing my confidence this is my first horse & i'm a novice - i never ride alone & go out with a very experienced rider who has a calm sensible horse in her 20's - my horse is 17 & i'm scared that she has always done it & always will - i just cant get anyone honest enough to answer me - my friend says its no good getting somone else to ride her as it probably wont sort my problem out - her teeth, back, saddle etc is fine - if my hubby knows he'll want me to get rid of her as he says risks are selfish when you have a business & 4 kids!!

i cant keep praying for rain.

Can anyone advise me??

she is an ex 3 day eventer & i get the feeling she's not hacked much although i bought her as a happy hack x

Any advice will be appreciated
 
Hmmm, 17 isn't old for a competition horse these days, so I have to say (sorry) that an ex 3DE isn't exactly a suitable purchase for a novice rider. But you've bought her so you have to make the best of it. The chances are she is just trying you out as I would guess you haven't had her long. Mares can be particularly difficult too because they argue back! My friend's young horse took to spinning round just after leaving the yard. She solved it by having her husband walking, and then cycling behind (as they got going further away) with a lunge whip. Once they got going on their own again, she carried a lungeline looped around his hindquarters that she could give a tug on if he thought about not going forwards - a bit like the one-handed loading method.
 
Hello there songbird :) A horse will take its lead from the rider, and if you are nervous then you won't be riding confidently and letting your horse see you as 'leader' and somebody to trust. I'd really recommend getting a good instructor out to work with you and your horse and work on your relationship with your horse, explaining the difficulties you are having. If the horse is an ex eventer it possibly has never been ridden by a novice rider and feels a bit insecure.

The other option would be to sell your current horse and get something a bit more easy going, you don't want to end up with your confidence in tatters, and a good easy going type that is push button will mean you can enjoy your riding more.

eta:- I think I would also get an experienced rider to hack her out a few times for you too, it might just be that once she is going out happily you can then work towards that with you on board (I'd still get lessons though!)
 
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Well you could try a PeeWee bit to stop her spinning. I got one when my Clydie took off with me (at a trot, lol) when she took fright at some colts in a field alongside the road and the only way I could stop her was by pointing her at the wall at the other side of the T-junction.:eek: It really improved her steering and stopping.
I also have come to use one on my ID mare who can spin at loud traffic. I would also get 2nd opinions on back/tack/teeth. The ID mare had just had all 3 checked when she started to be very spooky when out hacking, eventually she bucked me off twice. I got the vet and she needed treatment on her back. We don't know exactly but think that she picked up an injury in the field, compounded by slipping on the road and as I continued to 'ride her through it' she got more and more uncomfortable. It does seem that your horse is telling you that something is wrong.
 
You need to be super bold and confident or else you will end up in a vicious circle of feeling worse then the horse will try it on more & so the circle goes on ......

Napping (with obvious checks like pain, saddle, teeth etc having been ticked off) is down to lack of confidence in the horse. The best way to deal with it is to sit and ignore, do not fight her! Once she has finished, calmly point her back in the direction you wish to go, use a gentle voice and gentle aids, reassure her, she will go. If you can do this your confidence will grow and the same goes for the mare.

Remember it takes time to build a confident partnership! Be bold from the beginning so your horse sees you as the leader and the one to trust!
 
hi stranger ;)
i think i would get her in the paddock and do some lunging with her,
i think that would help her to get use to your voice signals and help with your bond. ive been lunging freddy everday for 15mins just so he will do as his told from my voice, trot-walk, walk-stand, stand-trot,canter-walk. :confused:
you get the idea.
i want to ride him bitless and need to make sure that when we are together he is listening to me.
dont give up :)
if you want someone to take her out, let me know.
or come out with both of us and you can go in the middle this may help her to feel more secure and you more positive.
 
I feel a trip back to basics would do you both the world of good - find yourself a good trainer and have a few lessons - tell her your problem and she will help.
 
Your friend has seen this napping happening and doesn't think a more experienced rider could sort the problem, is that right? That would have been my advice, to get an experienced rider to work on her a bit but assuming your friend is right, either your friend thinks the horse is beyond help or it is not a difficult horse, it is your riding that is the issue and someone else wouldn't have the same problem.

If its the first one, the horse is a lost cause, you still need a professional to get it on the right track and to get rid of it for you, unless you want to sell the horse yourself for very little money.

If the issue is your riding, how much riding have you done? Novice has a lot of definitions on here, are you a real beginner without an established seat? Have you been around horses long enough to anticipate the things they are going to do before they do them, like can you feel your horse backing off before she spins or does it seem to you just to happen out of no where? Are you just a nervous rider who has been riding for years? If you are just a bit of a timid rider, this can be beaten if you get some help and are determined to toughen up a bit. If you aren't yet at the stage where you can feel when your horse needs extra leg, or your seat isn't yet secure enough to ride the horse forward when it lacks confidence or plays up, you either need to do lots more work in the school and fields, and maybe have some lessons before taking this horse on the roads, or accept that this mare is not really suitable for you at this stage and go back to point one, lol.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. :)
 
Thank you so much for all your answers!! Its such a help - i am lucky enough to have suportive knowledgeable people on the yard & Kiteman is going to take her out for me & i have an instructor coming on Sunday. She's not sensing i'm nervous i dont think, cos i'm not ..... well not before the event!! but i think i might be giving her the wrong signals etc.

The people i bought her off said she was novice hack (had her for 9 months!!) the people previous said she's never hacked she's a competition horse - i didnt know that until this week tracing her old owners!!

i'll keep you posted & again thank you so much it really gives me loads to think about


i just want happy horse who likes her work!! (i just hope that doesnt mean i have to start jumping!!!)

xxxxx


Sam x
 
Competition horse = competition brain, however old. What I mean by this is she is probably trying it on with you.

Have you had anyone (professional) down to ride her out?
 
how long have you owned her? have you changed her saddle, bit etc from what she was in before? If she's uncomfortable, this could be her way of letting you know...
I think you should see a more experienced rider on her, see if she does it with them.
being very firm and definite, being prepared to put your legs on, say "WALK ON" as sternly as you can as soon as she wavers, will get most horses out of a jibbing fit IF they are just trying it on a bit. Does she always do it in the same places? It's odd that she does it with another horse out with her... is she better with the other horse in front all the time (some horses happily follow another one, switch their brain off a bit kind of thing.)
I find it a bit strange that an ex 3-day eventer hadn't hacked out... they have to be fittened somehow, and most event riders fitten them up by hacking them, and do at least a few hacks a week with them. Also, if she's 17, she'd probably have done long format eventing, and had to do Roads and Tracks, which is a glorified hack and has to be done alone. So, I doubt she's never been out on her own!
hope things go well this weekend and you get her sorted out and can resume some nice hacking with her.
 
Hi R2R

I've booked an RI for Sunday & asked him to try her too, he's a young guy so will be up to date on the modern way etc - i agree with you though & the last people to own her were very well known on the show scene etc - she acts like a donkey though, its not like i have this pulsating raring to go full of energy horse far from it, having said that i'm not the dancer i was at 21 but i still think i can teach others how lol - perhaps we are perfect for each other in a never go out on the roads kind of way!! lol x

I have loads to learn too, but we dont stay novices forever do we ??....... just feels like it xx
 
kerrilli

It never crossed my mind as to her history in terms of training etc - she would have had to do some hours under saddle i would think & that would have to be hacking as well as schooling etc...

I've had her for 4 months, the other horse is always in front although we have tried to swap it round my legs arent strong enough to get her to walk on to even catch up & if the other horse tries to go behind she doesnt like it.....
 
I would personally try to get one of the intelligent horsemanship instructors that work using Monty Roberts techniques out, there are quite a few over the country.
They will help you establish a relationship with the horse and will give you an honest answer as to whether you have over horsed yourself.
Failing that go and look on youtube at some videos of groundwork games etc to build relationships between horse and owner, once she respects you from the ground you are likely to get more respect on board, plus its fun to do something different with your horse.
 
hmm, if she's quite lacklustre (not wanting to walk out properly, for example) as well as the jibbing/napping moments, I think I would probably get a blood test done. It could be physical, she might not be feeling good. I would be a bit surprised if a former event horse was bone idle walking up the road, 17 is not that old...
have you tried a different saddle on her? if that one's not comfortable (and the horse is the expert on this, not the Master Saddler or whoever) then that could be the reason too... I'd be looking for WHY she's doing it even more than how to stop her doing it.
Hope you have a good weekend with her.
 
Good luck with the R.I
Be aware, as a competition horse, she may never have "hacked" out, its not unusual.
Training for roads and trackes can means hard fast work, probably alone, usually in fields etc, not hacking, as we know it.

Have you considered that if your leg isnt quite strong enough, your friend could lead you from her horse.
That way your mare might not get the chance to spin/nap.

Anyway, sounds like you are doing all the right things. Good luck
 
:mad:


Just had a very long e mail off 2 of my horses previous owners - both said should never have been sold as a hack, one of them said she only ever went on the road once with an RI & she spun round & ran home when she'd had enough!! so she always used her in the arena. Both said (one of them owned her for 7 years) that she has always napped on the road!!

these are experienced horse people so what chance do i stand now :( on top of all this she's lame too - in a way i'm relieved its not just me ( i can definitely improve my riding with lessons) but my mare hs had these probs with everyone.

Gutted x
 
Songbird I feel very sorry for you because I think you have been sold an unsuitable horse. I believe that horses, in general, are either prone to being nappy or not. With a stronger rider some nappy ones will be ok. However yours has a history of napping so I don't think you are likely to completely solve the problem. H+H had an article recently about Burghley winner Lenamore and I am sure it said he couldn't be hacked out alone and the roads and tracks used to be the previous rider's biggest worry at an event. I have two horses, one nappy to hack, and one not at all. The nappy one really shook my confidence and I stuck to arena work with him. He hacked out fine though with quiet company so if your mare naps even with company then I have no suggestions. I hope her lameness resolves so that you can get the instructor to look at her. Good luck.
 
If she was sold to you as a "happy hacker"..yet was known to nap badly beforehand when on her rare hacks out..not "fit for purpose" money refund Simplez.

Very surprised that she was a competition event mare if she is so non forward going.It`s no fun if your horse drags it`s heels and naps on hacks,tough,but not the horse for you it seems.Would`nt waste any more of your pennies on her,though.
 
Songbird said:
these are experienced horse people so what chance do i stand now :( on top of all this she's lame too - in a way i'm relieved its not just me ( i can definitely improve my riding with lessons) but my mare hs had these probs with everyone.

Gutted x
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I'm really sorry to hear this. Has she just gone lame and you don't yet know why or has one of her old owners told you she has a permanent unsoundness?
 
Sorry to hear your bad news. My boy naps from time to time but it is a "I'm trying it on" if he hasn't been hacked out much and been out to shows or schooling so it can be just the horses being pains at times. In my case I will hack out in draw reins which puts paid to his acrobatics but I do know there is nothing else behind it.

I think your first port of call has to be contacting the previous owner BUT I would take advice first, even if just from the CAB so you can quote your legal position. I am not qualified so won't comment but think legally you have a point, but how easy it would be to sort out with a private seller is more difficult. Ask CAB about the small claims court -just so you are armed before you have the conversation with the previous vendor. Good luck...
 
unless it was brought from a dealer i dont think theres alot you can do about it:mad:
unless, ;)
have you got a reciept with the word hacking on it or even the advert then you might have a chance but i think it comes down to buyer be aware.
im sorry it doesnt look good, but if she is sound tomorrow i'll take her out and see how we get on.
you might need to go back to basics and start like you would with a youngster. it might work it might not, its worth a try:)
 
I think they would get away with buyer beware, as someone said.

Is she good in the school? When sound, could she be sold onto a riding school. If she has done 3DEs she may be a schoolmaster for a more experienced rider/pupil. Perhaps a college would buy her? We had ex badminton schoolmasters when I did my AI (years and years ago) that taught us loads. They never hacked out, so this wouldn't have been a problem.

Shame on whoever sold her to you as a novice hack! Big hugs. xx
 
I'm so relieved in a way to know that my yardie (Kiteman) also found her to be a Madam, as he didnt let her spin round she decided to try & run backwards instead!! he rode her for me yesterday & found her to be a challenge & he's an experienced stro rider so you cn imagine what its like for a novice!!


Thanx Kitey i owe you!
 
ok i agree she was a handfull :rolleyes:
but i enjoyed the challenge:cool:,
it took me back to when i was younger and use to take out our young horses on the road for the first time.:D
i dont know what to say:confused:
i think she will come right and i will be taking her out tomorrow again,
last night was the first time that she has been off the yard on her own since sb has owned her and she obviuosly was scared and worried about it,
some hard riding though and really pushing her forward she came not good but ive ridden worse.
ive advised her that she needs that horse going out on her own every other day to get her use to it, know the problem:rolleyes:
sb isnt exsperianced enough to ride her the way she needs riding to get her to the point where the horse is forward and as good as 100% safe.
ive offered to do as much as possible but i wonder and you guys might know the answer,
if i get her horse going forward and hacking as hacking should be with in a month or so,
when sb gets back on, is the mare going to take the mik because she's a novice and not as a strong rider as me :confused:
i really dont know the answer:confused:
 
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