Please help me find a non-heating feed for condition!

[SkewbyTwo]

My 6yo sports horse is so sensitive to what I feed him. Through trial and error, feed switching, taking off all feed, and analysing ingredients until my head swims, I am now quite sure that both starch, and sugar, put him completely on edge and make him utterly not himself.

I have had him since a yearling and known him all his life, he is naturally a very laid back sort and good doer. But I realised early on that he is very sensitive to what I put in him, feed-wise.

I backed him myself then sent him away last year for breaking. I have no idea what they did to him, but he was going fine, then began to protest. It all went downhill so quickly - as far as I was told. Obviously he was more politely protesting earlier on, but it was missed/ignored.

I have a strong suspicion that the guy I sent him to got sick/scared of being bucked off and got a jockey friend in to "help" him. My lovely youngster was transformed, literally overnight, into a terrified ball of stress and misery. He had also suddenly lost a LOT of weight - previously he'd always been a pretty good doer.

Once I had him home I checked his sheath first and foremost, as he's always been a bit "cloggy" down there, and bingo, it was chock full of hard black stuff. I also got my dentist to him ("pro" had - allegedly - taken care of this for me) and wolf teeth were found and removed. So I'm pretty sure those were his issues and both are of course now fixed.

Since he came back from this guy, his stress levels have been ten times what they ever were, and his condition suffers as a result as I'm pretty sure he simply worries the weight off himself.

I turned him away last summer and recently started working with him again - very gently, very slowly, mainly in-hand walks as the arena now scares him witless. It has taken me until now to be able to get near his left ear, and do simple things like comb his mane out without being slammed against the wall. However, he's an awfully bright horse, and trusts me, so he was making terrific progress. I also have another horse in work so there is literally zero pressure on this young man. I take full responsibility for what happened to him and I will put it right, however long he needs, he has got, and then some.

As soon as I began working with him I decided to remove all hard feed, as he gets terrific quality haylage and I did feel that the hard feed was simply counter-productive. This made a HUGE difference to him and we were doing fantastically well, he was really progressing.

Then the beggar goes and has another grow, he's already 16 1 and his bottom has just rocketed skywards again, the accompanying weight drop-off happened and I realised I had to put him back on something.

Cue all my troubles again. He has been doing so well, but the poor little chap can get so wound up he literally shakes. High alert at all times, and the change is absolutely instant, i.e. coincides entirely with me putting stuff in his bowl. Combine that with the spring grass shooting through, and although he tries terribly hard for me, and is in no way dangerous, I can see little point in doing anything with him again now, as he just fries his poor little mind

Sorry it's so long but I wanted to give all the background, in case there is something I have missed. Worst comes to worst, he can just go back in the field until the grass is less sugary, the weather is warmer, and I can perhaps turn him out 24/7 for a couple of weeks (mine always come in during daytime in summer) as I always find this to have a very calming effect.

I am coming to the end (thank God) of my current sack of D&H Conditioning Cubes, I have looked up their starch content and am horrified that it is well over 20%.

In combination with everything else I am doing - lots of grooming, lots of spending time with him in the field, which he loves, and is the one place he goes back to his original self - does anyone have any suggestions for feeds, and/or calmers (not a believer in them really, although I did have real success with the Wendal's herbs one years ago with a very nervous horse, but I can't seem to find this one any longer), and things I can do with him, to help him relax and get back to the lovely horse he really is?

I'm also doing a worm count for him in case something like that is going on too. Although I highly doubt it, his coat is good, and he's been wormed regularly.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far. Feels good to offload if I'm honest. This was meant to be a quick feeding question!!! xxx

 

[amage]

With the like of him I would adlib forage and pull out hard feed. the lack of muscle from work will not help with his condition and if feed doesn't agree with him then having him a ball of nervous energy will not help him put on weight. You are coming into spring grass and that will help. If he were mine he would be getting a small cup of balancer for vit/minerals, maybe some chaff and thats it. adlib good quality forage and pasture when available. Is it possible to get him living out? If he is happier in the field then maybe work would be more productive if he was living out full time.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Is he short of magnesium, this is fairly easy to add to diet, 10gms of MgO per day or a full dose of Steady up [Feedmark] which has other calming stuff in it, I would try this for a month.
Soak all haylage and feed your bagged feed to the birds. Check all feed for maolsses and alfalfa, no mol licks or treats, obviously.
Use non molassed beet or Fast Fibre to carry his minerals and add 50gms of micronised linseed [more in winter]
25gms of salt every day.
Turnout as much as possible with his friends, and only do stuff he is happy with.
Can you turn him out in the arena and also do some loose schooling in there, I find they liike they love that, esp if he can be in with a pal who will also act as a mentor and be a steadying influence.
Is there any sort of pain issue.
Sounds as though he has been difficult to break and they have used brute force.
I would try long reining to get him out and about, use a helper at his head till he understands it not a big deal.
He is growing so you have to wait till he has levelled out.
If all else fails you can send him to Sarah Fischer or someone specialist in this sort of thing.
If there is someone else, a man even, who can groom, him this might help him get over his fear, which I think is due to abuse, but one can't be certan.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

How is he with farrier?
I would forget about doing much with him riding wise till he has grown in to himself, he does not need bagged feed he needs time.

 

[JillA]

It's always worth trying him on Magnesium Oxide for a few weeks - if Mg deficiency is the problem it will show a difference in that time. My horse was a bit like that, no reason, home bred and just unable to cope with stuff he should have coped with, a nightmare to back, he just freaked at nothing. MagOx changed him in 10 days, and it isn't expensive. If it hasn't helped in a month, that isn't the problem but it could well be, especially as he has reacted so much to spring grass (fast growing grass contains even less Mg than normal if there is a soil deficiency which is the case in most of the UK as I understand it)

 

[SkewbyTwo]

What a wonderful bunch of replies, and hugely helpful advice.

I will happily ditch the hard feed, he instantly improved when I did this. I was concerned that it wasn't a good idea as he is obviously in another growth spurt. But I have fed haylage from a certain supplier for years, and it really is terrific stuff. It has never heated up anything, and also, never had a bad effect on him at all, prior to his being sent away.

This is great news. Bonkers2 thank you so much for your detailed response on what to give him, I shall try this. Wonderful advice re turning out in school, he gets on famously with my other gelding who is wonderfully calm and simply doesn't react to any histrionics from him. (Thankfully, or I'd be in a right mess! )

He is absolutely fine with the farrier. Oddly enough, he had his first shoeing when away (fronts). They claimed he was horrendous. First farrier visit when he was home (with the same farrier he has had all his life) and he hot shod him in front, in minutes, with literally no fuss whatsoever.

Amage, do you have a balancer you can recommend?

I shall most definitely try the magnesium. Come to think of it, I have had him at a few different yards, and the only yard I noticed no skittish behaviour whatsoever, and he was on hard feed there, was the place with the best, non-horse sick grazing (first residents at a dairy farm-turned livery).

In a few weeks he can go out full time.

He was exceptionally easy to break, the "trainer" was over the moon with him. I had done a lot of in-hand showing with him as a youngster, and he was the type I could take to huge showgrounds and he simply never reacted badly to a thing. He was so trusting and relaxed, and he is naturally very bold. He would go back to his stabling after his class and lie down and fall asleep amidst any sort of commotion. His backing was a total non-event, he was happy to be led around the yard in a headcollar, with me on his back. He was the epitome of easy. Now he is anything but.

I really think that he was in pain from his teeth and sheath, and I hope that was all. I do wonder about pain somewhere now though. It concerns me. But I have plenty of great advice now to try, with more confidence, and if I still get nowhere I shall get him checked out thoroughly.

He oscillates between his old adorable self, but there seem to be "triggers" for him. If I change anything routine-wise, he goes to pieces. I spent an hour the other morning, grooming him outside his stable, as I put up new tie-ups. It was the end of the world for him, he simply couldn't handle it at first. I stuck with it and by the end he was calm, head down in feed.

Once, I walked into his stable with a friend. Which when I think about it, never ever happens to him, as it's only ever me who handles and sees to him. It completely freaked him out, to the point he literally darted around the box in panic, in front of us.

JillA the grass has definitely affected him. He calmed right down, now he has fizzed up again. I shall try and get hold of some MagOx this afternoon.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I shall follow your suggestions, and back off once again. He was loving his walks out, now he's not. I'll look to avoid any battles with him, and try to make life as easy as possible for him, see if supplements/removing hard feed/turn out helps him. Very grateful xxx

 

[JillA]

And read my other thread about calcium, leads on to more up to date info on magnesium. Good luck with it.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Agree about the magnesium my mare is a stress head in the summer and this really does calm her down.

I also have two Arabs that are loopy on high sugar and starch diets I only feed the graze on grass, unmolassed sugar beet and micronised linseed and one has cool stance copra and they both look well they have energy but not silly on it.

 

[eggs]

Micronised linseed it good at putting weight on without sending them loopy.

 

[PolarSkye]

Coming late to this, but Copra and linseed are fab at putting on condition slowly and without fizz.

I could have written your first post (up there) - Kali acts like a kid needing a massive dose of ritalin if he gets so much as a sniff of molasses - and I have learned (the hard way) to restrict his starch and sugar. Honestly, it's like he's trying to crawl out of his own skin he's so unhappy. He is a poor doer in the winter, so gets unmolassed chaff (because he won't eat his hard feed without some form of chop in it), micronised linseed, Copra and D&H ERS Pellets (specially formulated for horses with ERS/prone to tying up, so very low in starch and sugar and approved by the BF peeps) and (when it's really cold) some warm speedibeet. He gets ad lib hay and haylage - only hay in the summer - and once there is good grass in the pasture, I cut his hard feed right back to just chaff, nuts and a tiny bit of linseed for his coat/feet/joints (and I mean quarter scoops of all three).

P

 

[wench]

I wouldn't be feeding anything at all (apart from hay/haylage and grass!), but if you feel you need to feed something a lo-cal balancer will probably do the trick. Naf optimum is only fed in very small quantities, it may do the trick.

It does sound like he may be in pain though. Has he had a physio/chiro out to him at all?

 

[two troubles]

How old is he? If he's still a youngster and growing fast (which it sounds like he is) I would be feeding something, even just to get protein vits and mins in.

Have a look at St. Hippolyt Equigard. It is seriously low in both sugar and starch but does have the protein, vits and mins or maybe one of their vit/min supplements/cubes if your haylage has enough good protein in it.

Magnesium is definitely a possibility at this time of year. Please don't do calcium (unless you know your soil to be low in it) all it did with my boy was cause magnesium deficiency and make him brain dead and a bit dangerous.

 

[SkewbyTwo]

Thank you all for more great replies! two troubles he is approaching 6th birthday, and these were my thoughts exactly, I do need him to get more weight on and his growth spurts are alarming, he has always done it, he changes literally overnight. Absolutely shoots up.

Anyway, after following all your great advice, I have popped on to report that I already have a FAR calmer horse - and also, that he is now wolfing his feed which he has NEVER done in his life before. He's not only calm enough to keep his head firmly glued in the bucket (standard procedure is mouthful, back to look out over door, over the course of a night he will finish a feed, but a bit at a time) but also, such gusto indicates to me that it is not just more palatable to him, but that it hopefully does contain something he really does need (although the two are probably the same thing!).

I have been all over Gloucestershire to source everything I needed and of course, in future, I can order online. But I wanted to get him started pronto and I'm awfully glad I did. Just over 24 hours from posting, and he's already so much more himself.

Early days yet but great initial signs. Very pleased. Thank you all SO much!!! xxxx

 

[SkewbyTwo]

Has he had a physio/chiro out to him at all?

Personally I don't do "back people" but "trainer" did do this and all was pronounced well. So yes.

 

[SkewbyTwo]

Kali acts like a kid needing a massive dose of ritalin if he gets so much as a sniff of molasses - and I have learned (the hard way) to restrict his starch and sugar. Honestly, it's like he's trying to crawl out of his own skin he's so unhappy.

So well put, sums it up completely. I love the bones of this horse, he is the most adorable person, and I just cannot bear to see him like this any longer.

 

[Westfield]

Hi Skewby Two

Lots of clam well planned schooling with good stable management and time at grass. On the feed front it will not be the sugar as there is plenty in grass and the horse has spent 100,000 of years evolving to eat and digest it.

I would feed a high fibre diet Hay/Alfalfa, Sugar beet and a top of the range multi Vit and Min supplement or low starch balancer with digestive aid in it.

But please keep away of any non balanced feeds or calmers/ Supplements that are not BETA-NOPS or complies with the VMD as there is a lot of muck and magic out on the Internet.

Give one of the better hores feed helplines or a vet with an intrest in feed and nutrition a call. If you do call one of the feed company's always ask to talk to the senior nutritionist she/ He shoud give you good feeding advice.

 

[wench]

Trust me... physios work!

 

[SkewbyTwo]

Just had to pop back to update you, and say THANK YOU, you are LEGENDS.

Switched horse to fast fibre, with micronised linseed, spillers lo-cal balancer (so wb can have it too ), coolstance copra, and of course magnesium and salt, all as advised here.

He began to put his weight back on literally overnight, and is already looking pleasantly rounder, and much shinier.

But the best thing is - he's sooooo happy again! He is bouncy and lively, but clearly from feeling well. As opposed to the skittish nervousness and downright misery we had before. It was like he was permanently expecting something really bad to happen.

I've also switched them over to in during the day, out at night. The grass definitely affects him - I can tell a difference in him immediately, if he's out on it for too long. I had also stopped feeding haylage in the field, as so much grass was coming through. However I started again - and to my delight, he chooses the haylage over the grass. My warmblood picks at it, but sticks to grass in the main. This shows me too, that each is clearly choosing what suits him best.

I also had the revelation, that it was at this time last year that his breaking went dreadfully wrong! He had been doing brilliantly, was walking, trotting and cantering and popping a few small jumps under saddle. Then he suddenly began to panic and say "no".

So I will leave him a while longer, then perhaps start some gentle in hand work with him in a month or so's time. Here's hoping that I can erase whatever it was they did to him, now he's back to his wonderful happy self.

So very grateful to you all for the great advice, just wanted you to know that you've made a lovely young horse and his mum very, very happy. Thank you all xxxx

 

[JillA]

Great update, nice to hear.