Please help me - horse is forgetting his manners and its getting worse

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Natassia

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I got my first horse 3 months ago, he's a 7 year old 15.3hh gelding, I'd shared a horse 7 days a week before him but he's my 1st horse really. My main problem is that I've always been a soft touch with horses, particularly with this one as he has been treated roughly in the past, I wouldn't say mistreated but the when I had the vet out for his teeth I asked her about his headshy-ness etc as I was worried that he had tension in his poll/neck/back but she just said that he's probably been treated a bit roughly in the past and that he would get better with time - and he has but he's not 100% yet.
So I am soft with him, I love him to pieces and he has his quirks (pulling back mainly) but although I do raise my voice sometimes I'm never agressive at all with him, as I don't want to upset him. But now I think my sensitivity is backfiring, he decided he didn't want to come in the other week and I was trying for 1 1/2 hours until he eventually gave up (now he wears a fieldsafe headcollar and is fine), but sometimes he doesn't want his headcollar put on in the stable and backs away from it, he backs off when I put the reins over his head to put his bridle on, and he pulls back. He's fine once I've got the bridle on and enjoys being ridden, and this behaviour has never stopped me from riding him.
I am honestly gentle when I do anything with him, his tack is comfortable and I praise him when he has been good, people at the yard say he's just being naughty and that I need to be firmer with him, but I can't bring myself to do it which makes me feel so pathetic. Me being agressive will not work, as he is a timid horse but he is so sweet, I just want to improve his manners so that doing things with him and enjoying him is more straightforward.
Thanks for reading, sorry its so long but I'm getting worried about this now and want to improve things before he completely loses respect for me.
 
Maybe just a slightly differnt mindset will be all you need.

The horse is testing the boundries... you have to let him know where they are or ultimately he will (probably literaly) walk all over you.... and you have nearly a tonne of horse there that could quite inadvertantly kill you.

Horses take comfort from firm fair consistant handling. Knowing their place in the order of things makes them happy because they feel secure. Being firm and fair is the loving thing to do.

Pay attention to your body language... some horses don't half notice if you take a step back because they take a step towards you. Go for confident rather than submissive.

Headshyness doesn't mean cruelty or savage handling. He could have simply taken exception to having his woolf teeth pulled, or someone might have quite innocently caught erupting teeth on the bitwhilst unbridling him as a youngster.

As your bond grows, and he trusts you more these things will get better. I got round headshyness when bridling by putting a small blob of mint toothpaste on the bit. The horse soon worked out that the bridle meant instant lovely mintyness and now puts his head down to accept the bit.
 
I agree with YL, have you thought about your body language?

If a horse respects your space he may step back if you step towards him facing him (eye to eye so to speak), whereas stepping in from the side will have a different response.

He will have been used to a certain approach, if yours isn't consistent to what's familiar he may be reacting with uncertainty and backing away.
 
I think horse are most comfortable when they have clear boundaries, if you have been a bit gentle with him he is now unsure as to where the boundaries are, and is pushing and trying to find them

He is confused and continuing to be nice with him won't help him or you - time to get tough before it is too late
 
You sound like me 2 years ago! When I first got Ty he took the complete pee out of me. I hadn't had horses for 15 years and complete forgot what pee taking little sods they could be.

I couldn't pick out his feet, brush him or get on him as he wouldn't stand at the mounting block. I remember going home one day and having a good cry. Then the realisation hit me - I was not going to be dictated to by a bloody horse!

for me it was probably nerves after spending so long away from horses but you really have to change the way you are - if you're dithering and hesitant it really does make them more nervous and in some cases naughty.

Just be more straightfoward in what you're asking and try not to faff (if that makes sense!)
 
Totally agree with all of you, I need to be clearer with how I want him to behave. He does respect my personal space I think, he steps back when I go in his stable and he isn't bolshy at all.
The toothpaste on the bit trick sounds good I might try that one, but do you think he could be being naughty because he doesn't want to be ridden, even though he is lovely to ride and we only hack out really anyway as I'm bringing him back into work (he was an eventer before he had an injury), so its not as if I'm asking too much of him.
I think I'll just have to consistently expect him to stand still and always expect good behavious from him, otherwise he will walk all over me.
 
have you thought about parelli?
my horse had little respect for me and i had 1 parelli lesson and he is loads better. he has stopped bitting, threats have stopped and he doesn't come into my space unless i ask him to.
 
You have very good advice. May i add ill treated horses still need firm boundaries. I am a huge softie but there is a clear black line that is not to be crossed. I am the boss and they respect that. I do not hit etc but use body language/voice. The worst of offenders are very well mannered now. It is best for you and your horse, honestly, and no you are not being horrible. Makes for a good partnership if the horse knows the boundaries.
 
My horse can be funny with his head. He hates any pressure, like pulling on the lead rope for example, if he is tied up and something startles him and he feels sudden pressure on the rope then he will snap the string. He hates his head being approached from the side and will turn his head away if someone he doesnt know tries to reach for his head.

I have had him 2 years and although he has not got any better he does trust me and I know how to encourage him as he feels safe with me.

I put his down to the fact that he was not treated quite so nicely in the past as he also has confidence issues.
 
Vicm your horse sounds exactly like mine in the way that he is with his head, I was told about this when I got him so it isn't a new problem. I don't think mine will ever be 100% with his head like yours, but I would like to be able to put a bridle/headcollar on without too much hassle. I think he's playing games more than anything, he has never been at all agressive towards me and when he pulls back or does anything his ears are always forwards, he is a happy horse and I want it to stay that way, but with him knowing that I am the boss.
But something else thats been worrying me is that recently when i've gone into his stable he's gone straight to the back, most of the time. I've been taking the time to go into his stable just to spend time with him without actually doing anything, so I'll go in there to drink my coffee or whatever, and he does come to see me pretty soon after, so I think I'm getting there and it'll just take time. But do you think he is scared of me or what I might do?
 
He sounds like he may have poll problems - have you had a physio look at him? Some horses get quite tense through the poll, but the physio should be able to sort that out. If that is the problem he might also like an Elevator style bridle (the actual elevator one is very expenssive, but there are quite a few imitations out there that relieve the tension on the poll).
 
Thanks for replying Booboos, I thought that he could have tension in his poll, others on the yard thought that as well so when I had the vet out for his teeth about 3 weeks after I got him I asked her about that and she did some physio exercises on him and said that physically he was fine, so no worries there, she said herself that it was something that would just take time.
I was thinking of getting a bridle like that but he has a Sabre Cordoba comfort bridle and the headpiece is one padded piece rather than having 2 straps together if that makes sense, so there is less pressure on the poll, it looks like a very padded and comfortable bridle, I inherited that when I got him. But are there any similar headcollars on the market?
 
Well I'm going to take the horses side here! If the horse is backing away (for whatever reason) how can you be firmer? Why not try NOT putting things over the head, ie unbuckling reins then doing up round neck, unbuckling then sliding the headpiece up the side of the face (not pushing over ears) etc. He may have no physical problems in the poll at this present time but he will have a long memory and won't forget if he's had one in the past.
 
That sounds like he is fine with his poll which is great news!

Then it might just be behavioural with remembered pain. I would suggest you go the other way and rather than force things try positive re-inforcement. Show the headcollar to him and if he is willing to let you touch him with it (on the shoulder perhaps? just find any place he is happy to be touched with the headcollar and start from there) give him a treat, then try touching him again perhaps closer to the head and treating everytime he lets you, until he allows you to do more with him (I should say I am a big fan of clicker training and I find operant conditioning works really well for fear reactions as you associate what was scary (headcollar) with what is nice (food)). It may take a couple of tries, or a couple of days or a couple of weeks (all depending on how scared he is and how much he likes food) but it can help for many horses.

Good luck!
 
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