Please help me put my future horse purchase in perspective.

S

SAL66

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 June 2007
Messages
814
Visit site
I 'm sure your all aware that I am looking to purchase a new horse mainly for dressage and hacking. I am wondering if I'm getting too wraped up in the extravagent movements of a horse rather than looking at the overall picture.

TBH I would be happy to compete up to Elementary level out and maybe medium at home, I compete for fun rather than take it too seriously. I also enjoy hacking out and I want a horse that will be sane on the roads rather than buy a hot head who can only be ridden in the school, (we have a few like that on our yard).

So I seem to be leaning towards a warmblood probably for their paces for dressage, but are they generally a handful, I know you can't generalise a breed, but in the main are they hardwork.

Do for the level of dressage I am aiming for really need a extravagent paced horse, would a straight and correct way of going horse do just as well.

I don't want to buy a horse that needs riding everyday to be kept sane, I want that choice to be mine, nor do I want to over horse myself and loose confidence.

I have a picture in my mind of a lovely floating horse that has the wow factor, but I need to be more realistic in what is practical.

I really would appreciate your comments on my rambling post and help me put things into reality.
 
Maybe a wb cross might be more suitable as again I know it is a generalisation but the wb I know have to be ridden most days and are a bit spooky but this maybe down to the handlers rather than the horses. A friend has a lovely tbx connie who is fab (wish they could clone horses!!!) she works up to medium level and is always placed, brilliant jump and team chases as well so is a true all rounder. Maybe anothe route to go down as natives often have fab paces as well. Good luck with your search.
 
You are no different from a lot of people. In our minds we can visualise ourselves on a mega horse, but in reality we probably can't cope with it.

I have a TB. She is sensible and a good all-rounder. We compete at Novice and are not far off competing Elementary. The fact is, that pretty much any horse can get to that level with the correct training. There is no doubt that a WB will beat me with their flashy movement, so we have to be more correct and accurate than them.

My (German) vet says the WB is the best for Dressage even though they suffer with OCD problems. She thinks all TB's are insane.

At the end of the day, your horse will be sensible if he is fed properly and given the right amount of work. Lock any horse in a box for 23 hours a day and stuff it with food and it will misbehave.
 
Before I got my new chap, my opinion of WB's were the same as yours. I couldn't have been more wrong! Whatever the breed, each horse is an individual.
Rudy is predominantly a SJ'er, but will do a lovely test, and I am sure he will go to Ele if I wanted him to. Its horses for courses.
We have a lovely irish mare on the yard who was working at Adv Medium, and because she was straight and correct, she didn't really need all the extravagant paces. Again, its down to preference.
Go into this with an open mind. Don't set your parametres too rigidly. I went out not too sure what I was looking for, just wanted something to do a bit of everything, and I ended up with a SJ'er, that has now been taught he can hack out on a long rein, or we can go do a dressage test!

Good luck in your quest!

P x
 
My super WB is a doddle to hack, hunt, fun ride, etc. If you only ride her once a week she doesn't care. She is VERY well bred too. Partoow (our resident dressage guru on here) has ridden her and taught me on her and will tell you how far she would go dressage wise with a good jockey (I SJ, I am no Anky). She is for sale to the right home...
 
You don't need a horse with extravagent paces to do dressage but you do need a horse with correct paces. Extravagent paces are often harder to contain if you aren't used to them gradually so they can actually hurt rather than help.

In terms of warmbloods there are different breeds and bloodlines and some are sharper than others as is the case with most breeds so go by the actual horse rather than the breed. I would say is don't overhorse yourself as some warmbloods are very large and at that size they can be even harder to contain without shutting down.

I have a 2 year old warmblood (hanoverian) who doesn't care about traffic from the limited exposure he's had so far and has quite a steady head on his shoulders, though he does have his quirks as is the case with most horses. He lived out 24/7 all through winter and will be again from today, he was on company duty for another one on box rest for the last week or so, so they can be very hardy.

Good luck with the search.
 
I wouldnt rule out all WB's!! The one I share is the most laid back creature on the planet, safe, sane, and would do a nice test if he could be bothered on the day, but also fun aswell! Lives out in the summer, good doer, uncomplicated!

When I worked on a top dressage judges yard we found it was actually the TB's that caused us more problems than the WB. A majority of the WB's were happy just to do whatever, whenever......... most were out competeing medium and above but didnt have hissy fits if they had to have a week off.

I would pigeon hole yourself into one breed, lots of other breeds have flashy extravagent paces ......... its just finding the right one for you!
grin.gif
 
Any horse can be trained up to elementary/medium level. It's beyond that level where expression comes into play!

My RI's daughter rides a welsh cob and is doing very well at medium level, as well as having lots of fun with her in other disciplines.

My own horse is CB x welsh x ??? and my RI is very confident that we'll eventually get her working at elem level. As long as you train them correctly, and pick up accuracy points then you've every chance of doing well.
In fact I took my mum's happy hack (shire x clyde) to a RC dressage prelim test, and she won the class. She also beat her stablemates - a very pretty warmblood whose rider didn't do much schooling, and a shire x tb whose rider 'trained' a lot. They weren't too happy at being beaten by a heavy plod!

I've had sharper horses in the past, and it's so nice having an 'easy one'. I wanted one to hack in busy traffic, and do a bit of everything with, and one that I can leave when busy with work or whatever. Plus I can still ride her whilst I'm pregnant as she's so safe and I can trust her not to do anything silly
smile.gif
 
Thanks , I have been offered a connie X tb, i did post a conformation shot on last night, he is still in ireland at the moment, but looked a nice chap.

I know what you say about keeping an open mind, its just so difficult.
 
Discussing it with the other liveries as you do, i get comments like "you don't want a warmblood, you'll over horse yourself," or look at so and so WB, they can't take it out of the yard, you don't want that"

Generalisation again and I know its wrong, this is from someone who in their younger days had arabs!.

I just need to look generally what's out there and not get hung up on I suppose the "fashion " of today.

My current horse of breeding unknown , certainly not a WB, before he broke we got him schooling fantastically and doing great dressage tests so I should know that flash doesn't always mean getting placed.
 
Well said Rocky01, a horse with good confirmation can only have good paces, you need a horse with a good attitude to work, be it dressage, jumping or what ever your chosen discipline. Warmbloods, TB's, ID...whatever the breeding or mixing of the breeds it really doesn't matter, you could spend thousands and thousands on a well breed horse, doesn't mean to say its going to make a good dressage horse there are much more important factors than the breed I personally think.

I too was told that WB's are awkward, moody, stubborn etc etc, either good under saddle but have a difficult attitude or vice versa and was warned not to go there.....again people think all TB's are hot headed, its absolute rubbish, its how the horse is handled, trained and providing a correct environment to suite the individual horse and there individual personality.
smile.gif
 
Flowerlady- the breed of my horse currently is unknown, I would say he has possible a bit of welsh in him, I really don't know.
confused.gif

We had been competing Elementary and doing the odd medium test in my lesson, and if I could progress further fine, if not that's fine to. I want to enjoy competing rather than it becoming a chore.I know my limitations as a rider and I don;t think it will improve that much with a "good " horse. I have a terrible problem keeping weight in my heels, god it drives me mad.
mad.gif


Jetset -I'm a sucker for a pretty face,
blush.gif
hmm well horse wise that is!
grin.gif
 
i think you'd be just fine with a none warmblood , i have recently sold one of mine, an IDx who did everything you describe , competing novice & elem BD , consistent scores , a pleasure to take out , well placed(even a couple of wins) & consistent 7's for paces , just correct & rhythmic , hacks nicely , lovely temperament ,safe & sane confidence giver, good to do , can have a holiday & not come back silly , he was jsut so easy , an ideal competition leisure horse you could just rely on , i was very sad to see him go

i'm sure if he were a WB i could have sold him for a few thousand extra!
blush.gif


my WB on the other hand has the flash paces but is much more tricky & fussy & needs alot more consistency

so, in my opinion the 'average' horses can have some very real merits & personally even though i have a WB i would not give them preference over other breeds if the others fitted my remit
 
You are right, you can't generalise.:)

The advantage of the warmblood breeds is that knowing about the lines can give you a place to start when picking (or breeding) horses for particular jobs but it is still the individual that matters most. Just based on breeding alone there are horses I'd go to see for specific jobs and - more likely, to be honest - horses I'd be suspicious of for certain jobs even if they looked okay on the day. I'm not saying I'd turn a horse down just because of it's breeding but if I saw a horse presented by very knowledgeable people doing one job it's breeding might suggest it wouldn't do another job or cope with different circumstances. (There are other horses I'd look at just on how they're bred because I've loved everything by a certain stallion, say, but if the individual didn't fit I'd still walk away.)

I know this is too much information but one of the things people seem to miss, particularly looking at dressage-bred horses is how and why they are bred as they are. Even if they do look at "temperament" or "ridability" scores there is often the misunderstanding about what that means - it doesn't mean a nice, quiet horse it means a good competitor! Not the same thing at all. Many of the dressage lines are bred to be hot because that's what succeeds at the job they are bred for. Some are okay within very specific parameters but some are extremely tricky and, quite frankly, not bred to be amateur horses. They are big moving, big thinking horses bred to power forward and leap in the air because that's what they are FOR. You often never see these horses out at lower levels because they take ages to be reliable and even then, it comes down to their schooling. They aren't hacks and horses to learn on (not saying you want that, just making the point), not because they're "bad" but because that's not what they're FOR. They are bred to be super reactive - that's part of what gives them the "zip".

Other lines tend to be a bit more circumspect and suitable for "all round" jobs - they tend to be mechanically good but lack the extreme drive of some of the hotter lines and take to a slower lifestyle and more varied jobs. Even then they've been custom bred for decades, even centuries to do specific tasks so it's really no surprise they often do those things well and other things not so much. It's my personal belief horses do best - and make people the happiest - in the job they are suited for: Never teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

To some extent it's like dogs - you don't buy a border collie to sit on your sofa or a Husky to do obedience or a Cavalier King Charles to herd your sheep.

All that said, there is no "warmblood" temperament, any more than there is a "tb" one. Within the breeds people have bred for different goals and lines have lent themselves one way or the other. Knowing how a horse is bred can narrow down what to look at/for (or avoid!) but it won't tell you what the individual horse is. There are also horse of distinctly "non-dressage" breeding that can go far - they have the conformation and the minds to allow for it, even if they are "freaks" within their own breed. Again, the individual counts for the most.

Horses with huge, brilliant movement (of any breed) tend to have the minds that go with it. There are a few that manage to have the super competitive hardware with the user friendly hardware but people definitely know what they've got and how rare that is so they tend to be priced accordingly. Look at some of the insane prices paid for top quality dressage horses now, particularly for amateur riders.

As to being able to make any horse behave the way you want it to just by management, I don't think I'd fully agree, or at least it hasn't been what I've seen and experienced. I would agree it's possible to make huge adjustments - good and bad - but the horse is still what it is and will to some extent react the way it is "programmed". You can make the horse a different version of what he is, but you can't make him different. I've met lots of horses that didn't really do "sensible" - from a recreational rider's point of view anyway - and in fact there are whole families of horses prone that way. Some learn to cope better, some stay super reactive.

Often the things that scare/hurt people the most are actually the horse doing what it is "supposed" to do either through enthusiasm or misunderstanding. (I know someone who used to own what is now one of the top dressage horses in the world. She's a great rider who has produced many horses up to GP, competed internationally etc. and she had to pass the horse on because he was just too much.)

I'm sure I'll be slaughtered for saying this but one common side effect of making a hot horse more "manageable" is to take away some of its movement and athleticism. It's not uncommon for horses that look like superstars when they're young to end up looking pretty average later on. There are lots of reasons for this but it's something to keep in mind when imagining a horse's future. Yes, horses hopefully get better trained and more settled with time but they also get stronger and more mature in their approach to life, which doesn't necessarily translate into "easier".

As to whether you "need" a horse with huge movement, that depends a lot on your goals. There are so many good moving horses now it's hard to be competitive without one (regardless of breeding - I had a TB that won at "straight" dressage) but as you go on trainability and your ability to ride the horse counts for more and more. The cliche is someone buying a horse for a huge expressive trot and then realising that's the only trot the horse has and getting variations in pace are a nightmare! I learned from experience!

Btw, if you're going to "buy" a gait pick a canter and a walk (they usually come together). Decent trots are usually quite easy to improve with work, canters and walks much less so.

I know, waaaaaay too much information.
smile.gif
It's a pet area, mostly from years of sorting out horses whose only "crime" was they were doing the wrong jobs. Forgive my evangelism!

What you really need is the horse that suits YOU. You need to find the one with the balance of the competitive attributes you want but on which you feel safe and in control. It's no fun having a horse that's great to look at and makes your friends go "oooh!" if you don't actually enjoy riding it!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Jetset -I'm a sucker for a pretty face,
blush.gif
hmm well horse wise that is!
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

AND she is a cover star this month
wink.gif


Let me know if you are interested, though I think you are looking for something that is already competing at Elementary/medium?
 
Each horse is an individual. My TB x show hunter pony has competed up to Elementary and had the talent to go further had he not injured himself. He is also very chilled and is only ridden three or four times a week. I wouldn't rule out specific breeds as all are different. It's hard not to become fixated though I know - I refused to look at mares when searching because I thought they were all horrifically moody but that's not true. You need something that suits you height and build wise and ability wise. Breeding is not everything. Basic paces are more than enough to get you good marks - accurate riding will win you a test.
 
Warmbloods have super temperaments generally, as do TBs, they're just very clever horses!

I think they are just more sensitive & you have to take things slowly.

Most Belgian Warmbloods I've met have had incredible paces & lovely attitudes - maybe a nice choice?

Also, workmanlike warmbloods are often less expensive than "safe" (spooky) cobs with mouths of steel & hides of leather...

Just judge on the personality of the horse rather than the flashy looks.
 
TarrSteps - Thank you for your detailed reply, yes your right I don't need a competition horse I need a good amatuer horse that can have and give me a life outside of the ring one that I will enjoy riding.

Buying the right horse for the right job, how easy it seems but in all reality probably the hardest thing to do.
 
I have been to a riding school and had lessons on ex-elementary dressage horse, that was also used for RDA, and he was a 15.2 lw cob!!!

My current horse is pure TB, and always gets excellent marks for his paces, althou we are only doing prelim stuff, I am sure with a better rider than me he would do well in higher stuff to
 
I know WBs are popular for dressage but there are other breeds competing at Elementary and above. I've seen a section D, Connie x, TBs and IDs
smile.gif
My instructor says that any horse with reasonable paces and a trainable temperament can get to medium - not sure if dressage people would totally agree with that?
smile.gif
 
I've had a TB who consistently got 8s and 9s for his paces at Novice and Elementary and have a Hannoverian youngster (Donnerhal lines) who nannies the others out on hacks, so I don't think you should limit yourself to any one breed. Personally I think that if the horse gives me a good ride that's enough for me regardless of looks, breed, sex, etc. I can then enjoy him even when the dressage judge disagrees about the quality of our performance!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top