Please help! Schooling problems - resisting the leg

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chestnuttyy

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Hoping someone might be able to offer some advice...

I've had my horse for about a year and prior to owning him he had done no schooling. He has come a long way compared to how he used to be but I'm having huge problems with him now going forward from the leg into the hand.

I've tried keeping my hand quiet with not a great deal of contact then legging him on, but he just starts having a huge strop (jogging, bouncing, rearing - ever since I've had him, he's had a bit of an 'attitude' where if he finds something difficult he fights). Schooling whip makes it worse as he's scared of it and spends the whole time trying to get away from it.

The odd thing is that he's pretty responsive to the leg for lateral work - leg yields, increasing/decreasing circles, it's jut going forward where he seems to go 'dead'.

Any ideas?!

Note: he had his saddle done a few months ago and is having his back checked next month but doesn't seem to be in any discomfort.
 
My current horse has exactly this problem! Super responsive to sideways-bendy-anything-but-forward aids but as soon as you want him to engage and work forwards he collects and almost goes up the way instead of forwards. I had a really good lesson today that really helped.

Try riding in spurs, and keeping your leg right off him. As in dont touch him at all unless you are giving an aid. Then, when you want him to go forwards give a really sharp hard kick. If he tries to evade kick again and again (always one sharp quick aid) until he goes forwards then lift your leg right off and reward him. Do this in walk until he almost starts jogging with a light touch then move up to trot and do the same thing. Eventually he should start thinking more forward. It is really important to barely touch him with your legs the rest of the time - this is something I am really struggling with and it definitely affects how forward the horse is going!

Hope this helps a bit - not sure if you will have tried similar already :P
 
Just a thought, but I think that when going sideways a horse doesn't move his shoulder as much "forwards" as when going "forwards". Could it be that he's not liking the saddle too much on his shoulders? As in it could be impeeding his movement very slightly and him not liking it?

Another idea, maybe it is coming from the mouth? Teeth checked I assume? A 4yo I had started really avoiding working into a contact, and when I started riding her more into the bridle she stopped going forward as much so could avoid the bridle - turns out she had a tooth growing in a bit oddly.

Do you mean that you can't take up a contact and get him to go forward into it? Or does he do this when you have no contact at all?
 
Zeb93 said:
My current horse has exactly this problem! Super responsive to sideways-bendy-anything-but-forward aids but as soon as you want him to engage and work forwards he collects and almost goes up the way instead of forwards. I had a really good lesson today that really helped.

Try riding in spurs, and keeping your leg right off him. As in dont touch him at all unless you are giving an aid. Then, when you want him to go forwards give a really sharp hard kick. If he tries to evade kick again and again (always one sharp quick aid) until he goes forwards then lift your leg right off and reward him. Do this in walk until he almost starts jogging with a light touch then move up to trot and do the same thing. Eventually he should start thinking more forward. It is really important to barely touch him with your legs the rest of the time - this is something I am really struggling with and it definitely affects how forward the horse is going!

Hope this helps a bit - not sure if you will have tried similar already :P
Click to expand...

Ah, now I've not tried this. We've been having a fair few lessons and I've been told to keep my leg on.. ahhhh so confusing! Admittedly I'm not the best at schooling but I'm tryin so so hard to learn more, I just hope we can crack this.

So Going with this method, do you keep a fair amount of contact or not?
 
undertheweather said:
Just a thought, but I think that when going sideways a horse doesn't move his shoulder as much "forwards" as when going "forwards". Could it be that he's not liking the saddle too much on his shoulders? As in it could be impeeding his movement very slightly and him not liking it?

Another idea, maybe it is coming from the mouth? Teeth checked I assume? A 4yo I had started really avoiding working into a contact, and when I started riding her more into the bridle she stopped going forward as much so could avoid the bridle - turns out she had a tooth growing in a bit oddly.

Do you mean that you can't take up a contact and get him to go forward into it? Or does he do this when you have no contact at all?
Click to expand...

He has got quite big shoulders, but the saddle doesn't seem to be restrictive. I had a nightmare finding a saddle to fit him and this one was fitted by a master saddler, but may be worth having it checked again.

Mouth - entirely possible. His teeth were checked a couple of months ago, but he's ridiculously sensitive in the mouth. I think his previous owner was quite heavy handed. Problem is, with him evading the leg I end up trying to encourage an outline with little tweaks on the rein, thus more pressure on the mouth.
 
chestnuttyy said:
Ah, now I've not tried this. We've been having a fair few lessons and I've been told to keep my leg on.. ahhhh so confusing! Admittedly I'm not the best at schooling but I'm tryin so so hard to learn more, I just hope we can crack this.

So Going with this method, do you keep a fair amount of contact or not?
Click to expand...

Keep a contact...if he starts to go backwards or spin about relax until he goes forwards then ask again. To begin with he won't want to go forwards into your hands but if you keep asking and rewarding when he does it by being soft you should start to get somewhere.

I have always been taught that keeping your leg on deadens them to it. So by making it a short sharp aid they learn that this means forwards and you can then apply your leg in different ways to ask for different things (half pass etc). My instructor said today that unless I stop nagging so much with my leg I will struggle to get my horse up to medium and beyond because he wont listen to my leg for anything else.

However not having seen your horse I don't know if what I am saying is correct! This technique has definitely worked with my horse though and I can really feel a difference.
 
chestnuttyy said:
He has got quite big shoulders, but the saddle doesn't seem to be restrictive. I had a nightmare finding a saddle to fit him and this one was fitted by a master saddler, but may be worth having it checked again.

Mouth - entirely possible. His teeth were checked a couple of months ago, but he's ridiculously sensitive in the mouth. I think his previous owner was quite heavy handed. Problem is, with him evading the leg I end up trying to encourage an outline with little tweaks on the rein, thus more pressure on the mouth.
Click to expand...

From this, I'd say he was evading the contact, not your leg by refusing to go forwards. Sideways, he's not going directly into it so in his brain he might think sideways isn't too bad.

I've seen this in horses who are booted forwards, and hoiked in the mouth at the same time, so have no clue where they are really supposed to go, and in the end it's all rather uncomfortable, so they would rather not go forward at all.

There are two ways I would go about it, if this was the problem, the first one (and the one I'd be most likely to use if he is as sensitive as you say) is to take a contact and never fiddle again. No tweaking the reins, no nothing. He has to learn to trust your hands/contact/bit/bridle, and that he's not going to experience discomfort. Hold the reins so that you are "there", so you have a light contact and the reins are not slack, and keep this contact. Just persevere, as with the above post. I would tight a slightly stronger contact than normal (only very slightly) and ask him to go forwards, and when he does go forwards, reward with taking a little pressure off. So he learns that going forwards = nice safe bit rather than forwards = socked in teeth until outline (not saying this is you at all, it's probably remembered from his last owner). Does that make sense? By slightly stronger contact, I mean about the strength that you can hold an empty can of coke without crushing the can, if you can imagine that?
 
Thanks both :). It seems as though my instructor might be suggesting the wrong method as I've literally been told to keep the leg on all the time to 'get him moving off the leg'.

I'm very conscious of his mouth and try not to be heavy handed, however this can become v difficult when he starts chucking his nose in the air or trying to rear (though we've mostly got over the rearing). I'm going to get a dentist out as it was just the vet that checked them last time, then when he's had the all clear I know he's not uncomfortable. In terms of bits he's ridden in a happy mouth snaffle due to being so sensitive, does this sound right or should I try something else?

Thanks for all your help guys, I'm desperate to improve both my own riding and the horse!!

Xx
 
Hi this a really common problem with youngsters and novice ggs.
I will try to explain as best i can in writing, so forgive me if it sounds confusing.
I would first have very little contact and get your horse listening and you in control of him totally, with your seat and lower leg.

In all three gates use your lower leg and body to change his rhythm and speed.
Dont worry about his head carrage. Once you have mastered going forwards and coming back like that, you can then work on getting him flexible.

If he is not flexable and not got the right muscle for it he will find it hard.
For getting him flexing go on to a 20m circle.
Using your outside leg on ( you can use spurs if he is unresponsive) and move your outside hand into your belly. (rains should be the same length) The object is to get him to flex his neck head and spine around your leg. So if he does it correctly he should step into the circle with his outside front leg. Both of these techniques will really help in the future as well for other things.

Make sure you do it on both rains, and when he does it, give him a good pat and let him relax a bit, going back maybe to the the rythems and speed.

Then using the same technique for the rhythm take a bit more contact, dont just suddenly take contact, gradually push him into the bridle with your seat and lower leg whist you do it. As soon as he does it give him lots of loving and let him relax. Then try again. But dont do it for too long like i said he will have very little stamina to sustain it

Hope this helps its really hard to expalin with out the props :-)
Let me know how you get on! X
 
My now 6 yr old was idle! Have you got any hacking? I still hack her as often as I can, incorporating school work into it! She is great now and literally just 2 months ago finally "got" the schooling whip. Do you carry a short whip? That's what I used to carry and would just slap her shoulder or possibly behind my leg....... I never bothered where her head was as long as she was going FORWARDS and now she is mostly forwards and when she is she also has a cracking outline but the forward comes first.
I did try spurs but this seemed to make her anxious and I found she was better with "less" props if that makes sense......I tend to make a Shhhing noise which doesn't "worry" her but having used the same noise whilst lunging she knows I want more within the pace.
Also hacking with an active horse in front may encourage him then lots of praise when he goes..
Good Luck!
 
He can go in a very nice outline when he wants to. The other night he did some beautiful work in an outline for about 20 mins (with little stretch breaks!). We just often seem to have 'argyments' before he's willing to really give in and give it a go.

I will try the method of using just seat and legs, but want to try and get out of the habit of 'nagging' as he's already pretty dead to the leg when he wants to be.

I hack out at least twice a week and try to do bits of schooling whilst we're out. The issue here is he's very excitable and stressy and although he'll be mega responsive to the leg, he shoves his nose in the air!!

I've got the dentist coming to look at him in a couple of weeks too so that may help :).
 
Just wanted to give a quick update. Schooled last night and we had a little breakthrough! Kept contact and went with Single kicks when appropriate and he telly started to click. Bit of an argument at first but then a huge improvement!

Also for our cool down did lots of work on a long rein in walk riding only off the seat and legs... And he listened! Had him walking 20m circles, changing direction as halting :) a huge achievement for us!

Thanks for your advice everyone xxx
 
Right back to the basics of going off your leg aid. If he doesnt go from a little leg aid, then a big boot and blast around arena. Has to respond straight away, until you can use smaller aid and he is going forwards. You must not nag! Goes of one aid or gets blasted around arena. Trust me, you wont need to do it many times before he gets the message, but you have to be consistent. :)
 
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