Blizzard
Well-Known Member
ok the question, can you use a Pelham without a curb chain?
ie just the bit?
ie just the bit?
Please help solve a Pelham debate!
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
rrose
Well-Known Member
i think so but it wont have the same effect
nomini
Well-Known Member
Not sure, have always ridden with a curb chain when riding in a Pelham
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
Yep. Or you could use an elastic curb (then you still get a little curb action).
EllieBeast
Well-Known Member
If you remove the curb, then it just removes one action. and means that the major action of the bit becomes the poll action.
vicm2509
Well-Known Member
Ditto Live_Wire.
JustKickOn
Well-Known Member
yep you can use just the bit, though most ponios i know who are ridden in a Pelham have the curb chain too
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Love the cute guinea pigs!
Love the cute guinea pigs!
puddicat
Well-Known Member
Yes you can, you can do pretty much anything you want with any bit becaue when you pull the reins the bit will have some sort of action on the head which will increase in proportion to the amount you pull on the reins.
If you accept this, the question then is... does the action (say without the curb chain) allow you to aid the horse, and/or it is as effective as the 'prescribed' way of using the bit (say with the curb chain? This is a difficult to question to answer and people tend to fall into two camps (1) "NO you can't use the bit without the curb chain because it only works properly with the curb chain" and (2) "YES you can" and they usually add "I've used the bit without the curb chain and it works well for me!"
Both are true, there are almost no blacks and whites in bitting because you're dealing with a complex interaction between (1) what the rider does, (2) how the bit transfers the riders actions onto *several* places on the horses head and (3) how the percieves the combined action of the bit/bridle (4) how it responds.
But it would be as big a cop-out to say "its all too complicated and it depends on the horse" as it would be to answer a straight yes or no so I thnk what is important is to have some of idea of where the arguments for and against come from.
In this case the argument against the necessity of a curb chain comes from common sense and collective experience; Pelhams without curb chains are used successfully. This can be satisfactorily explained simply by acknowledging that all that is necessary for a bit to work is for it to have some sort of action on the horses head when you use the reins, and whatever you do to a bit it will always have some sort of action. So a Pelham without a curb chain and with/without rounding (the other great Pelham issue) will be perfectly good for some horses in some situations. Moreover, some animals do not like the effect of a curb chain so adding a curb chain could make a Pelham effectively less useful.
The argument that a curb chain must be used comes from the idea that bits work in a certain way to have a certain effect. So the purist view is "no curb bit should be used without a curb chain". I think this is a pretty good rule to follow but like everything in bitting its not absolute, so I'll give the basic argument and you can decide for yourself. The curb chain prevents the mouthpiece from moving along the mouth, increases pressure from the mouthpiece and acts on the curb groove. A mechanical analysis suggests that the net effect is to shift the net action of the bit towards lowering the head ie doing what a curb bit is 'supposed' to do. Without the curb chain the mouthpiece can apply force to the corners of the mouth (depending on head position) which would suggest to the horse to raise its head hence contradicting the lowering effect from poll pressure. However even though these actions contradict each other, the lower effect is dominant in most head positions and for most bit dimensions so the head is still lowered even without the curb chain. So perhaps a good answer is that a curb bit (or Pelham) is both strongest and most effective at lowering the head with a curb chain but a curb chain is not essential to obtain the effect.
If you accept this, the question then is... does the action (say without the curb chain) allow you to aid the horse, and/or it is as effective as the 'prescribed' way of using the bit (say with the curb chain? This is a difficult to question to answer and people tend to fall into two camps (1) "NO you can't use the bit without the curb chain because it only works properly with the curb chain" and (2) "YES you can" and they usually add "I've used the bit without the curb chain and it works well for me!"
Both are true, there are almost no blacks and whites in bitting because you're dealing with a complex interaction between (1) what the rider does, (2) how the bit transfers the riders actions onto *several* places on the horses head and (3) how the percieves the combined action of the bit/bridle (4) how it responds.
But it would be as big a cop-out to say "its all too complicated and it depends on the horse" as it would be to answer a straight yes or no so I thnk what is important is to have some of idea of where the arguments for and against come from.
In this case the argument against the necessity of a curb chain comes from common sense and collective experience; Pelhams without curb chains are used successfully. This can be satisfactorily explained simply by acknowledging that all that is necessary for a bit to work is for it to have some sort of action on the horses head when you use the reins, and whatever you do to a bit it will always have some sort of action. So a Pelham without a curb chain and with/without rounding (the other great Pelham issue) will be perfectly good for some horses in some situations. Moreover, some animals do not like the effect of a curb chain so adding a curb chain could make a Pelham effectively less useful.
The argument that a curb chain must be used comes from the idea that bits work in a certain way to have a certain effect. So the purist view is "no curb bit should be used without a curb chain". I think this is a pretty good rule to follow but like everything in bitting its not absolute, so I'll give the basic argument and you can decide for yourself. The curb chain prevents the mouthpiece from moving along the mouth, increases pressure from the mouthpiece and acts on the curb groove. A mechanical analysis suggests that the net effect is to shift the net action of the bit towards lowering the head ie doing what a curb bit is 'supposed' to do. Without the curb chain the mouthpiece can apply force to the corners of the mouth (depending on head position) which would suggest to the horse to raise its head hence contradicting the lowering effect from poll pressure. However even though these actions contradict each other, the lower effect is dominant in most head positions and for most bit dimensions so the head is still lowered even without the curb chain. So perhaps a good answer is that a curb bit (or Pelham) is both strongest and most effective at lowering the head with a curb chain but a curb chain is not essential to obtain the effect.
flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
Yes of course you can
However I would suggest removing the curb hooks with a pair of pliers to stop it rattling or getting caught up (or if experimenting tape them to the bit)
Alternatively you could try a UK tom thumb or jumper bit - this has a similar action.
However I would suggest removing the curb hooks with a pair of pliers to stop it rattling or getting caught up (or if experimenting tape them to the bit)
Alternatively you could try a UK tom thumb or jumper bit - this has a similar action.
JustKickOn
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks!
Love the cute guinea pigs!
[/ QUOTE ]
your welcome, and thankies
their rather fat little piggys!
Thanks!
Love the cute guinea pigs!
[/ QUOTE ]
your welcome, and thankies