Please humour me - feeding bran...

martlin

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Can you list benefits of feeding horses bran? Without any additional questions about said horse :D What I want to know is, in what circumstances would YOU decide to feed it.
Just humour me :) I would like it here in black and white, or more precisely in black on sort of beigy brown ;)
Thanks in advance, happy to share a Redbull :D
 

YorksG

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My understanding is that modern bran has very little nutritional benefit, because all the 'food' is milled out of it. We will use it as a warm mash, with a lot of molasses, for a straight forward colic, or pretty dry to firm up the stools of a loose horse. We keep some in, but use it very rarely. Having said that I use it to make a very easy bran loaf for people :D
 

Spring Feather

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Bran is a higher energy provider than some other feeds and would increase protein levels in the horse. If you were feeding a supplemental increase of calcium and trace elements then if could be done. There are no circumstances where I would decide to feed bran as there are far more nutritious feed compositions available. Have you been offered a large (or cheap) supply of bran and are trying to figure out ways to make it work for you?
 

sbloom

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I would feed a tiny amount for palatability. I'd not feed it occasionally (every other feedstuff is changed very slowly, why do we feed bran occasionally?). I think bran affects the gut for all the wrong reasons - loosening stools is basically mild scouring, drying them up is just giving something to absorb the water that is naturally ending up in the gut. It's basically an irritant. So many other ways to achieve these outcomes which are much healthier for the horse.
 

martlin

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Have you been offered a large (or cheap) supply of bran and are trying to figure out ways to make it work for you?

No, no, nothing like that I'm afraid - nobody seems to be offering me anything cheap these days :D
It's just I need some ammunition for an, ahem, tricky discussion with one of my liveries, that's all :)
my opinion? absolutely pointless exercise that is not doing the horse in question any favours at all. The energy levels are rubbish, it's a bugger to feed as you need to mess about with watering etc, the horse's condition is POOR and it needs a high calorie feed that can be given in small quantities as it is a poor eater and gets rather overfaced with too big a portion, so gives up.
Financial implications are unimportant as feed is included in the livery fee.
 

Cortez

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As someone else has said, any laxative effect is obtained by irritating the gut, it buggers up the calcium / phosphorous ratios and it has little or no nutritional benefit. Very old fashioned feedstuff, IMO. Why does said delicate livery want to feed it?
 

sbloom

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Small appetite - high octane balancer. Then I'd feed a huge trug of forage and possibly oil based feed alongside a hay net. There is no problem with large feeds per se, just large cereal feeds, or any large feed where the horse doesn't have lots of time to eat it at leisure, or the horse is out 24/7. Much healthier to be trickling the feed into them, than even several small feeds.
 

Oberon

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I feed bran.

It is a 'safe' filler to use opposite Speedibeet.

My forage is high in calcium and phosphorous. So feeding Speedibeet (high in calcium), I feed bran (for taste, they go mad for it) for the phosphorous to balance the ratio.

Yes I could do without it, but I would choose bran over alfalfa any day;)
 

Oberon

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As someone else has said, any laxative effect is obtained by irritating the gut, it buggers up the calcium / phosphorous ratios and it has little or no nutritional benefit. Very old fashioned feedstuff, IMO. Why does said delicate livery want to feed it?

But alfalfa and beet also bugger up the calcium/phosphorous ratio - no one seems to mind that?
 

Brownmare

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I feed it to correct the huge amount of calcium in my forage but my horse is a good doer and I agree in the situation you describe I would not be feeding it unless as an appetiser i.e. A handful mixed into a higher energy feed
 

sbloom

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But alfalfa and beet also bugger up the calcium/phosphorous ratio - no one seems to mind that?

Beet has such low amounts of both that it doesn't do much to affect ratios. Alfalfa and bran have much higher levels so are much more important. I think it is slightly disputed, but a slight excess of calcium can be excreted and is not harmful. Enteroliths are the problem (and thumps I think?) caused by too much clacium and they are only seen in horses fed on alfalfa hay. The amounts we feed as hard feed do not approach overfeeding of calcium.
 

martlin

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As someone else has said, any laxative effect is obtained by irritating the gut, it buggers up the calcium / phosphorous ratios and it has little or no nutritional benefit. Very old fashioned feedstuff, IMO. Why does said delicate livery want to feed it?
The horse had a colic once, several years ago... :rolleyes:
it came to me couple of weeks ago, together with its countless bins of feed:
leisure mix
some sort of barn floor sweepings smothered in molasses called veteran chaff
bran
it windsucks badly, is in poor condition with stark coat to boot, poor quality horn on hooves and is in obvious digestive discomfort
I suggested diet of grass chaff, balancer, outshine and sugar beet
the owner agreed (sort of) but wouldn't let go of the bran - I suggested coligone instead.
Now, if you have a look at that, I'm actually increasing MY expense to feed the horse appropriately, so argument of me being ''tight'' and not supplying the bran is nonsense.
It's been 2 weeks and already windsucking has reduced (although still bad) and the bed does not get kicked about to smithereens... the coat is getting a bit of shine to it, too.
 

rhino

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The only time I will feed bran is post surgery if the horse is not willing to eat its normal feed. Either bran or handpicked grass will usually get them eating again :)
 

martlin

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Small appetite - high octane balancer. Then I'd feed a huge trug of forage and possibly oil based feed alongside a hay net. There is no problem with large feeds per se, just large cereal feeds, or any large feed where the horse doesn't have lots of time to eat it at leisure, or the horse is out 24/7. Much healthier to be trickling the feed into them, than even several small feeds.
Pretty much what I'm doing, apart from high octane balancer - poor creature came up in lumps, so got swapped to lo-cal.
The problem with large feeds is that when horse sees full manger, it just decides it can't cope and gives up eating alltogether.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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If you've had improvement in condition & also in temperament already, then you are doing the right thing.
its so difficult when (some!) owners think they understand better but are unable to stand back objectively.

Used to keep bran in but haven't fed it for over 10 yrs now, prob since I stopped boiling barley etc.
Mostly was useful for emergency poultice or bulking out tubbies feeds etc, but a right pain in the depths of winter to use when water supplies were off :rolleyes: (mind you - I did love the waft of a good bran mash with boiled barley & linseed in :D )

Keep at it, 5 or 6 small feeds a day - photo's of before, in between & after would be good :)
 

Dancing Queen

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TBH i dont think anyone has the right to tell a person what to feed their horse, she is obv hanging onto the bran because of the colic attack.

Bran is pretty useless but i feed it when they look a little uncomfortable due to its laxative effect.

I love running my fingers through the bran - such a lovely feeling!
 

martlin

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If you've had improvement in condition & also in temperament already, then you are doing the right thing.
its so difficult when (some!) owners think they understand better but are unable to stand back objectively.

Used to keep bran in but haven't fed it for over 10 yrs now, prob since I stopped boiling barley etc.
Mostly was useful for emergency poultice or bulking out tubbies feeds etc, but a right pain in the depths of winter to use when water supplies were off :rolleyes: (mind you - I did love the waft of a good bran mash with boiled barley & linseed in :D )

Keep at it, 5 or 6 small feeds a day - photo's of before, in between & after would be good :)

Thanks :)
I don't think posting photos of someone else's horse would be terribly professional of me, though :eek:
 

martlin

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TBH i dont think anyone has the right to tell a person what to feed their horse, she is obv hanging onto the bran because of the colic attack.

Bran is pretty useless but i feed it when they look a little uncomfortable due to its laxative effect.

I love running my fingers through the bran - such a lovely feeling!
No, I don't claim the right to tell the owner what to feed their horse. I just do not offer bran, so they have a choice of either picking from the range of feeds I do offer or buy the bran themselves.
The horse is on 7 day part livery (full care apart from riding), owner visits once or twice a month, horse is not in any work.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Thanks :)
I don't think posting photos of someone else's horse would be terribly professional of me, though :eek:

oops! :eek: Totally understand - I meant for yours & owners purposes.

I used to do this on a fortnightly basis with youngsters that came in for schooling & breaking/producing or edumuctating;) as well as the rehab cases.

Meant we took 4 pics on photo day of each one (front, rear & sides) & these were compared to the previous ones.

Very interesting to do as sometimes when you are working with them on a daily basis you can miss subtle changes.

If owners were a long way away, then this also helped them to see the changes or progression of their animals :)
 

Mike007

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Considering the dry matter weight of bran added to a feed, the phosphorous content is irrelevant.Most horses get more than enough Calcium .I think the real problem with so many modern feeds is that they are high fibre. Now a high fibre diet is good ,but the problem is that if ,as is often the case ,you are feeding good hay and have good grazing.The horse eats enough fibre and is simply not hungry. They eat a set level of fibre a day. Once that is achieved ,not interested! Offer a high fibre feed on top and you can expect it to be left. Also there are a lot of feeds now which have a LOWER energy content than good hay. Feed these instead of hay and the horse looses weight.
I have always considered damp bran to be a good way of padding out Oats and preventing choking. But then I am in a minority ,still believing that Horses do need some starch if they are being worked. I have seen many fads in feeding come and go , I do believe the starch issue has a lot more distance to run. There has been some interesting research on EPSM but I dont believe the work regime of the horses has been adequately taken into account. Increasing the energy level by adding oil is also pretty unnatural and certainly doesnt encourage appetite.
I think a lot of people have lost track of what hard feed is all about. If you are feeding good hay then most horses only need a bit of ballancer. If the horse needs more energy then it is pointless feeding high fibre cubes and chaff. That is just an expensive hay substitute.
Sorry if this has turned into a feeding rant rather than an answer. The healthiest horses I have seen lived on top quality hay a couple of scoups of oats and a bit of damp bran .
 

martlin

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Considering the dry matter weight of bran added to a feed, the phosphorous content is irrelevant.Most horses get more than enough Calcium .I think the real problem with so many modern feeds is that they are high fibre. Now a high fibre diet is good ,but the problem is that if ,as is often the case ,you are feeding good hay and have good grazing.The horse eats enough fibre and is simply not hungry. They eat a set level of fibre a day. Once that is achieved ,not interested! Offer a high fibre feed on top and you can expect it to be left. Also there are a lot of feeds now which have a LOWER energy content than good hay. Feed these instead of hay and the horse looses weight.
I have always considered damp bran to be a good way of padding out Oats and preventing choking. But then I am in a minority ,still believing that Horses do need some starch if they are being worked. I have seen many fads in feeding come and go , I do believe the starch issue has a lot more distance to run. There has been some interesting research on EPSM but I dont believe the work regime of the horses has been adequately taken into account. Increasing the energy level by adding oil is also pretty unnatural and certainly doesnt encourage appetite.
I think a lot of people have lost track of what hard feed is all about. If you are feeding good hay then most horses only need a bit of ballancer. If the horse needs more energy then it is pointless feeding high fibre cubes and chaff. That is just an expensive hay substitute.
Sorry if this has turned into a feeding rant rather than an answer. The healthiest horses I have seen lived on top quality hay a couple of scoups of oats and a bit of damp bran .

But the bottom line is, bran doesn't actually do anything for said horse, does it? So, bearing in mind that it is very light and fluffy and the size of feed scares the living daylights out of the poor thing... why would I feed it?
 

JenHunt

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Can you list benefits of feeding horses bran? Without any additional questions about said horse :D What I want to know is, in what circumstances would YOU decide to feed it.

personally, Never.

modern bran contains next to nothing of any particular value to the horse. The little fibre it provides is digested in the stomach and not in the hind gut, and if fed in too high a proportion would actually impose constipation rather than relieve it as intended.

if you're after condition - increase the fibre and oil content
if you're after relief of constipation then feed more fibre
if you're after hiding medicines then create a paste with apple sauce and syringe it into the horse's mouth
 

JenHunt

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But then I am in a minority ,still believing that Horses do need some starch if they are being worked. I have seen many fads in feeding come and go , I do believe the starch issue has a lot more distance to run.

I agree some horses need some starch - but if ours can hunt happily and easily on alfa oil and speedibeet with a balancer, then they clearly don't need much.

But my main point in response to this is that you should be clear that modern bran provides next to no starch. the digestible bit is actually a medium chain fibre - longer chain than what is normally considered as starch. It is digested almost as quickly as starch is, but with very little energy derived from it.

This means, to me at least, that bran is not providing starch to the stomach, or fibre to the hindgut.
 

Mike007

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Quite clear!the starch is in the oats I feed with the bran as bulk.Not clear how you get the idea that not much energy is available from the breakdown of the complex carbohydrates in bran. Certainly as much if not more than most fibre sources.But since it is so feindishly difficult to calculate ,I dont really believe we have an accurate answer. ( In otherwords feed companys tell you what they want you to believe)
 
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RutlandH2O

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I agree with JenHunt completely. Except for a bit of niacin, thiamin and riboflavin, bran is worthless. It isn't just high in phosphorous, it is extremely high in phosphorous. Fed more than occasionally to youngstock it can cause skeletal problems. It does not produce energy for the horse, nor is it high in protein. Any laxative effect one might want to produce in the horse is created by feeding forage and plenty of water. I've had this discussion with many horse people over the years and it tends to be the older generation who refuse to accept the fact that bran isn't the desirable feed stuff they have fed over the years. I won't have it on the farm.
 

Mike007

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I agree with JenHunt completely. Except for a bit of niacin, thiamin and riboflavin, bran is worthless. It isn't just high in phosphorous, it is extremely high in phosphorous. Fed more than occasionally to youngstock it can cause skeletal problems. It does not produce energy for the horse, nor is it high in protein. Any laxative effect one might want to produce in the horse is created by feeding forage and plenty of water. I've had this discussion with many horse people over the years and it tends to be the older generation who refuse to accept the fact that bran isn't the desirable feed stuff they have fed over the years. I won't have it on the farm.

Phytic phosphorous 75% unavailable to the horse, Millers disease, a historic legacy that keeps being touted as relevant.Low in protein ,but most horses get too much anyway. Does produce energy ,at a critical point in the digestion of fibre when energy is required by the bacteria (rebated later). Older generation have seen a bit more and are not so easily convinced by the next slick feedsalesman along!
 
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