"Please Pass Wide and Slow", admission of liability???

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djlynwood

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Ive been searching various websites for some new Hi Viz stuff and came across a site that advised riders to have plain hi viz tabbards with no writing at all. As asking drivers to pass wide and slow means that you are aware that something could happen.

I have heard that having "Caution, Young Horse" could be admitting liability to a certain extent but asking drivers to be aware of their speed seems different to me.

What do you guys think?
 
It seems like rubbish to me, how can an instruction or request possibly be admitting liability in the event of an accident? I also recently heard that you should not wave cars past as it would be classed as your fault if they then had an accident with a car coming the other way, total rubbish, each driver is responsible for their own actions.
 
The please pass wide and slow tabbard is fine as is the one with the red triangle on it. Caution Young Horse can be admitting liability and isn't recommended. I had a long discussion with the insurance people at the BHS about this after someone drove into us a couple of years ago
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I also recently heard that you should not wave cars past as it would be classed as your fault if they then had an accident with a car coming the other way.

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True. Occasionally I wave people on if they're crawling behind when they can see its totally clear because they're scared of over-taking a horse or the carriage. If the driver can't see I rarely wave them on because sometimes its safe to pass when you wave them on, but they take so long going, by the time they set of there's something coming the other way and then it is largely your fault.
 
This is not true! Each driver is responsible for the position of their car on the road, unless instructed by a police officer they have no obligation to do as invited. Even if waved on by a police officer you MUST still ensure that there is room for you to complete your manouver. No-one else is responsible for where you place your vehicle, therefore they have no liability if you hit another vehicle.
 
This has been discussed on a number of occasions on here and generally it is thought that tabards are not an admission of guilt. Certainly the 'pass wide and slow' is not as it is a request and not a warning.
 
I think please pass wide and slow is fine. You are requesting just that.
Caution young horse means, i might just jump out on you and land on your bonnet, so i probably should not be on the road!!

(It's the same with dog signs, apparantly Beware i live here. Warning guard dogs, and These dogs bite are not good..... But caution dogs running free is ok).

I don't worry about this matter as i cover both safety and humour.
I wear Hi Vis, which asks........
DOES MY BUM LOOK BIG ON THIS
This is fine till you ride past workmen of any description
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I think we can get too hung up on the words - in general WE (that is riders and drivers of horses) have a responsibility to mitigate risk as much as possible which is one of the reasons we wear high vis vests. Certainly 'please pass wide and slow' only reinforces the message of the highway code to drivers.

'caution young horse' - well, what does that mean? I certainly wear the same hi vis gear for every horse and imagine you all do too
 
Well I think that in this day and age where everyone sues for everything and seem to be in it for what they can get out of it...I would not be surprised if it was not possible to sue someone or sway the balance of blame by having such wording on the back of a tabbard. Nothing would surprise me!
I personally don't wear a tabbard anyway as I like the extra high viz area that a light weight jacket gives, but would be reluctant to put a tabbard on with such writing because there are so many shi*ts out there waiting to try it on.
 
I had some hi-viz waistcoats printed up with a slogan I pinched from a web site in the US, they read:

Horses don't dent
They DIE.

Seems to get the message across to those few that can actually be bothered or can see far enough (lots of elderly drivers in our area) to read it, and positive responses from other riders.
 
No definatley not if anything, in my opinion you are taking more responsibility by advising drivers it it safer to pass wide and slower.

If an accident did happen fault would be decided upon the accident circumstances. i.e. if you horse just jumped into the middle of the road into the path of a car then this is your fault as the owner of the horse as it is strict liability under the Animals Act. However, if a driver did something to cause the accident then it's their fault. Hope this helps !
 
[ QUOTE ]
I had some hi-viz waistcoats printed up with a slogan I pinched from a web site in the US, they read:

Horses don't dent
They DIE.

Seems to get the message across to those few that can actually be bothered or can see far enough (lots of elderly drivers in our area) to read it, and positive responses from other riders.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wanted one printed that was similar to that.

Cars dent, horse die.
 
i remember years ago (20 plus) we had to ride down a busy main road to get to any hacks and we used to wear the young horse tabards, the car drivers didnt know that our neddies were all over 10 but it had the desired affect!
 
Signs and slogans on hi-vis are funny things. Years ago my mum reckoned that an L sign on the back of a high vis was universally recognised by all drivers and that they passed wider and slower as a result Nowadays of course I'm sure if a driver hit somebody with an L sign on they would try to have a field day claiming that that person/horse was not experienced enough to be on the road in the first place. Sad really.

I worried about the slogans on high vises and insurance, but check with your individual insurance company. Might also be worth asking the BHS' take on this.
 
I was told the same thing about dogs as missugoopy (by a PC), anything that says 'caution' or 'warning' is an admission that your dog may bite and hence makes you liable but something like 'loose dogs' or 'dogs live here is fine' as it is just information so I think 'pass wide and slow' would fall into that category.
 
Think about it this way, a learner driver has to have L plates on their vehicle, if they are involved in an accident, just because they are wearing L plates, does not mean they are automatically to blame. As I said a above, asking someone to pass wide and slow is asking drivers to avoid an accident where at all possible. I would seriously be disputing anyone who tried to say I was liable for having a tabard saying the above !
 
the only way I can see Wide and Slow as being interpreted as an admission may be (this is only my theory) that you are saying "please pass wide and slow, horses can be unpredictable, so allow plenty of room" this really is my only interpretation but perhaps in today's litigation culture the sensible thing may just be to use plain high viz. In any event the requirements to allow horses plenty of room are clearly set out in the Highway Code. Though how many drivers retain that information after passing their test I wouldn't like to guess at!
 
One of the main reasons I wear a plain Hi-Vis coat/vest.
Clear enough for people to see you, but not giving the drivers a reason to sue.
 
I have a "Please pass wide and Slow" tabard and it works drivers really do take notice of it and I thank them for doing so.
 
There was a piece on this in H&H a couple of weeks ago - with a specialist equine solicitor commenting.

It was stated in the piece that wording on your high viz tabard, such as 'caution young horse' or 'please pass wide and slow' was not an admission of liability in any way.
 
To date there have been no court cases as regards 'Warning Young Horse' although it is better not to use this slogan.

It is better to have long sleeved Hi-Viz so that arm signals can be clearly seen.

If your horse is being ridden by someone else or you employ someone else to ride a horse for you then it is essential that they wear Hi-Viz to the correct standard (BS EN 471) so that in the event of an accident you can be seen to be providing them with the correct protective equipment. If it is just for your own use then (BS EN 1150). Any accessories should be to standard (BS EN 13356). These standards will be marked o the packaging and the product will display the ce mark in it's recognisable form of black lettering on a white background.

However a recent evaluation of the current market situation regarding equestrian Hi-viz garment by trading standards has found that some items on sale are yet to go through the Type Approval process.

It is important that Hi Viz garments used by riders signal their presence from the side as well as the front and back. This will ensure that tractor drivers and shooting parties can see them from a distance.

The basic garments that trading Standards recently found on sale through retailers however, would simply not achieve this and failed to comply with current standard provisions.

In certain situations high visability clothing is regulated by the provisions in the regulations for Personal Protective Equipment Legislation (PPE).

If the garment is designed to make the wearer stand out because of it's colour or reflective qualities, then it is designed to protect the wearer by making him or her more visable to others in which case the regulations would apply.

Such garments have to comply with essential safety requirements and be certified by an independent body called a notifying body and have a CE mark affixed to the product.
 
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