Please reassure me..PTS?

[tamsinkb]

Please bear with me, this is going to be a long and rambling one!
I have 3 horses that are kept at home. They are all very bonded and act as a happy little unit. My eldest has been retired 12 years due to PSD in both hinds, I never thought he'd take to being a field ornament, but he has been very happy. Earlier this year he developed a sarcoid on his ear, further investigation showed that they were throughout the ear and down his face....due to location they were not suitable for removal or medical treatment( 2nd & 3rd opinions concur). Recently the sarcoids have grown and now cover the ear. He wears a fly mask to stop the flies irritating them, but now the mask itself is rubbing and TBH he looks like he has the mother of all headaches.....so the time is looming for 'that' decision. I have always believed in 'better a week too early than a day too late', but when I last had a horse PTS, 16 years ago I copped so much flack ...thankfully, those frenimies are no longer in my life. Anyhow, I will be speaking to the vet for advice tomorrow regarding the way forward, but I have other factors to consider.

One of the other horses is a total stress head, poor doer. If he was human I would describe him as ASD/hypochondriac/anorexic/ anxiety issues. I fear he will not cope with the loss of his bestie and that he may go into a decline.....if that happened, I could be left with 1 horse, who would not cope being alone. In an ideal world I would find another youngster to bring on, but circumstances are not ideal and I do not have the right amount of time to do that for the next 2 years.

So....what do I do? I know Bert will probably be leaving us soon( which breaks my heart?), I fear I will lose Bill as well (breaks my heart even more?)...and I can't have Pooh on his own, but I'm not in the position to buy a permanent replacement ( being sensible)

Any suggestions?

 

[Sandstone1]

Could you consider taking on a rescue companion pony before you have to say Goodbye? So sorry you may have to lose any of your little herd.

 

[HashRouge]

My suggestion would be not to get ahead of yourself. I would take it one step at a time and have the first horse PTS as and when you decide the decision is right. You can then see how the stressy horse does - he may cope better than you think. IF he doesn't, there are lots of options for your third horse - you could loan a companion horse, or look at taking a rescue horse from a sanctuary.

I'm very sorry that you're going through this by the way, you sound like an incredibly caring owner and your horses are lucky to have you. But do try not to overthink it just yet. Deal with horse number 1 first, and then go from there.

 

[cauda equina]

So sorry about all this
As HR says, sometimes horses cope with the loss of a friend better than we think they will

 

[teddypops]

Sorry to hear this, it’s always sad and stressful to lose one. I have had 2 that have lost their best friend. I didn’t think either would cope, but they both did.

 

[Shilasdair]

I'd advise that if/when you have to say goodbye to Bert, that you leave his body in the field for his friends to see/smell. Leave him there for a few hours and they should understand and accept his death more easily - they won't be looking for him.
And you may be surprised how well Bill and Pooh cope.

Congratulations on being such a lovely owner - who was prepared to give your horses a long and happy retirement, and do the final kindness for them, too.

 

[Baywonder]

I am so sorry you are in this situation.

Don't try and deal with everything at once. Have a good honest chat with your vet to determine the best way forward with Bert. If you are in a definite PTS situation, then maybe you could look at a rescue / companion as others have suggested.

Bill may well cope better than anticipated - no-one knows until that situation happens. If you do lose Bert, at least Pooh will be there for Bill, even though they are not besties.

You sound like a caring, sensible owner, and my heart goes out to you. It is blatantly obvious you are doing everything in your power to make the right choices for your horses, so please be kind to yourself.

<<Hugs>>

 

[paddy555]

when there is one horse less the whole dynamic of the small herd may well change. The pecking order will be different and you may find Bill copes perfectly well.
Don't overthink it, deal with what actually happens not what you think might happen.

I had 2 who were bonded as a pair. Well, at least I thought they were. One got horrendous colic and was throwing himself around the ground screaming. His pair bond was watching, eating hay. I worried what would happen by the time the first was PTS.
I offered him the body to look at. His attitude was why should I be concerned. I had wondered, as part of my long term planning, if I would have to have him PTS as well when I lost the first one. Would he cope.

He completely forgot it and got on with his life. All the help that first horse had given him and looked after him and he couldn't give a damn.
Not what I expected.

I'm sorry you are in for a sad time with Bert.

 

[pistolpete]

So sorry things are so difficult. Another vote for a loan pony. I loaned one for eight months last year when I had to have my old boy put down. Things have changed for me and I’ve sent her back which I thought would be more heart ache but actually it worked out really well. I asked on FB for a loan and got several ponies and horses offered.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

A sad time. Sounds like you’ve been a great owner. Wait and see is good advice. There’s always a rescue for a companion or someone local looking to retire there’s if it is needed.

 

[olop]

I’m so sorry your having to make this decision massive hugs to you.

Quite a few years ago I had to have my mare put to sleep and her and my gelding were literally inseparable so I was really dreading what was going to happen (he had lived with her from day 1). When she was put to sleep we left her body in the field and my yard owner also let me bury her in the same field. He then went out with a companion and was completely fine. It sounds silly but I think he took comfort knowing she was still there? Who knows but he was absolutely fine afterwards.

Again massive hugs to you, I would do as others suggested and sort him out first before thinking of the others xx

 

[Carrottom]

Sorry for your situation, as others have said, take one step at a time.

 

[SO1]

That sounds sad could you try putting Bill on a calming supplement or is there any medication that could get from the vet that might help him through the grieving process. Is Bert on any pain relief?

Freedmark steady up is an excellent calming product really seemed to help my pony though a long spell of box rest.

Could you advertise for a retirement livery to join Pooh you might find someone who is looking for a place to retire their horse and they may even pay you to have it at your place.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I'm sorry you're in this situation, I'd just take it one thing at a time and see how it goes.

I was in a similar situation last year. I had 3 ponies and had to have my old boy pts, they'd all lived together for about 16 years, my younger one was inseparable from him, they'd been together since the younger one was a yearling but afterwards I led him up to the body and he didn't even look twice before just walking off and was completely normal afterwards, the other one who I thought would be fine took it worse and was on edge and unsettled for a couple of weeks but they coped far better than I thought they would.

 

[chaps89]

I’m sorry you’re in this position.
When my mare was pts earlier this year I found myself in the position of needing a companion for my companion. I didn’t really want another ridden one and I certainly didn’t want the cost of a second companion.
I ended up advertising on FB and have a weird loan/livery arrangement with a lady who had a similar pony also needing a friend. I look after him on a daily basis for free but she covers all his costs. I was quite picky about it being a pony who would fit well with the existing one and an owner I didn’t think was likely to dump a pony on me!
Depending as to whether you have time for another one, might this be an option.

 

[FourWhiteSocks]

Sending you best wishes at this difficult time. Remember to be kind to yourself. Let your horses help to heal you from the loss of your eldest horse, they really are good at that, even the stressy ones.

 

[Birker2020]

Please bear with me, this is going to be a long and rambling one!
I have 3 horses that are kept at home. They are all very bonded and act as a happy little unit. My eldest has been retired 12 years due to PSD in both hinds, I never thought he'd take to being a field ornament, but he has been very happy. Earlier this year he developed a sarcoid on his ear, further investigation showed that they were throughout the ear and down his face....due to location they were not suitable for removal or medical treatment( 2nd & 3rd opinions concur). Recently the sarcoids have grown and now cover the ear. He wears a fly mask to stop the flies irritating them, but now the mask itself is rubbing and TBH he looks like he has the mother of all headaches.....so the time is looming for 'that' decision. I have always believed in 'better a week too early than a day too late', but when I last had a horse PTS, 16 years ago I copped so much flack ...thankfully, those frenimies are no longer in my life. Anyhow, I will be speaking to the vet for advice tomorrow regarding the way forward, but I have other factors to consider.

One of the other horses is a total stress head, poor doer. If he was human I would describe him as ASD/hypochondriac/anorexic/ anxiety issues. I fear he will not cope with the loss of his bestie and that he may go into a decline.....if that happened, I could be left with 1 horse, who would not cope being alone. In an ideal world I would find another youngster to bring on, but circumstances are not ideal and I do not have the right amount of time to do that for the next 2 years.

So....what do I do? I know Bert will probably be leaving us soon( which breaks my heart?), I fear I will lose Bill as well (breaks my heart even more?)...and I can't have Pooh on his own, but I'm not in the position to buy a permanent replacement ( being sensible)

Any suggestions?

I am sorry you are faced with the possibility of having your Bert pts, you must be devastated.

I seriously think that if you go down the route of having Bert pts you must let Bill and Pooh see his body and have access to it. Horses grieve the same as us and if they do not get that chance (as pair bonds/small herd) to have that last goodbye and come to terms with what has happened to one of the members of their herd then they will pine.

It happened to my friends horse - an aged gelding. He was utterly devastated when he couldn't find his pair bond, an elderly mare who he'd shared a stable (small low partition between stables) and a field. And after she was pts and taken away he was totally distraught, because he'd never got the chance to say goodbye to her and for days and days after he would run up the fence line calling for her. He didn't know she had died as she was pts in the stable and he was in the field when it happened and it really upset him. He literally pined away, got colic and was pts.

I know some horses wouldn't show much emotion when faced with the body of a horse, some would just quietly stand there or graze nearby until they are taken away, others paw at it. But at least they realise what has happened.

I would strongly suggest you do this and then monitor Bill and Pooh and see how they get on without him. There may be adjustments in the pecking order when he is gone but they will cope, I am sure of it.

 

[AnShanDan]

Sorry, I haven't read all the replies but wanted to say I had a situation with 2 mares here who'd been retired together for several years. I was dreading the older one going because the younger one was so totally besotted with her. She hated it when they were apart and HAD to be in sight of her.
Anyway, the older became ill and had to be PTS quite quickly one night. The younger one was fussing and box walking while this happened despite being sandwiched between two other horses in her box ie she was def. not left alone. However, after I let her sniff the old mare's body and put her back in her stable she was totally fine. The next morning I turned her out with 2 new mates, both geldings, and she wandered off as if nothing had happened.

 

[Fransurrey]

I had similar concerns about my stressy mare. After the event, though she whinnied for him twice, then threw herself fully into the role of Merry Widow. They'd been together 10 years.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Am very much feeling your heartache in this situation OP.

I've been in practically an identical dilemma.

So ok wind-back-the-tape to three weeks ago when this is what we had:-

Little herd of three mares: consisting firstly of one Arab (on loan and returning to owner imminently); secondly one 10yo cob mare who goes down with laminitis and struggles with box-rest to the point she is displaying aggression not just to the rest of the herd but to humans too. She is bullish and obviously radically unhappy. As well as laminitis has trigeminal nerve headshaking, possible ulcers, possible early-onset arthritis, very probable EMS that will mean she has to be grass-restricted for the rest of her life, and very probably will be unhappy all her life. Has recurrent undiagnosed lameness issues and vet has said that where the hell do we start with this one, even diagnosing what's wrong with her will cost a fortune and may not even be possible, let alone "curing" any of it. She was still lame on 2X bute a day. And third member of the herd: little pony/cob 13.2 who I took on as a youngster is the last member of the herd.

I have (or rather had) all these kept at my place (home). Also in the immediate area is a livery's old boy who is on retirement livery. He's separated from the rest by leccy fencing and they can see each other and "talk" over the fence, but not on the same pasture together.

Sadly I made the decision to euthanise the laminitic mare - deed was done on the Friday afternoon. She'd had enough poor old gal. We turned her out for the last two days of her life and then say goodbye to a contented bright-eyed horse. The other two herd members came up to the fence to say their goodbyes and saw all that was happening. Then on the Saturday morning the loan/Arab went back to her owner. Which left little'un on her own without her "herd" - apart from being able to see Old Boy on his bit of grass.

As background here let me explain that a good few years ago now I lost one of my old boy's fieldmates and rushed to get another companion for him post-haste. It was the biggest mistake I ever made as the companion(s) I got for him seemed to make him miss his old pairbond even more and I vowed I wouldn't ever do that again.

My little pony has been fine without the rest of her herd around her. I was worried, but need not have been. She CAN see the Old Boy and he can see her, but they're not silly about each other. If and when another companion comes along, all well and good. I have a friend who might be getting herself a horse, but until then we'll see how we go.

All I will say is don't be in a rush to "replace" what your horse has lost. You cannot. So don't try. If you ARE offered something, then be very very careful - don't just grab at something you're offered because you feel desperate.

So sorry you're in this position, there is nothing more heartbreaking.

Sending thoughts at a sad time. XX

 

[tamsinkb]

Many thanks to everyone who has replied....I know I will be doing the right thing by Bert, but that doesn't make it less painful...he came to me as an early weanling 21years ago and has been an amazing friend through some tough times? I spoke to the vet yesterday and he is now on bute to make him more comfortable, he has a different fly mask which doesn't (yet) rub the sarcoids and we discussed how we would organise the dreaded deed.

Interestingly, Bill seems to detaching himself from Bert...grazing separately and not mutually grooming...Pooh has taken that place, so maybe he's the one who will be more distressed. I'm off the Mole valley shortly and will check out calmers for them both.

Once again, thanks for all your kind words and suggestions....one step at a time?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Please bear with me, this is going to be a long and rambling one!
I have 3 horses that are kept at home. They are all very bonded and act as a happy little unit. My eldest has been retired 12 years due to PSD in both hinds, I never thought he'd take to being a field ornament, but he has been very happy. Earlier this year he developed a sarcoid on his ear, further investigation showed that they were throughout the ear and down his face....due to location they were not suitable for removal or medical treatment( 2nd & 3rd opinions concur). Recently the sarcoids have grown and now cover the ear. He wears a fly mask to stop the flies irritating them, but now the mask itself is rubbing and TBH he looks like he has the mother of all headaches.....so the time is looming for 'that' decision. I have always believed in 'better a week too early than a day too late', but when I last had a horse PTS, 16 years ago I copped so much flack ...thankfully, those frenimies are no longer in my life. Anyhow, I will be speaking to the vet for advice tomorrow regarding the way forward, but I have other factors to consider.

One of the other horses is a total stress head, poor doer. If he was human I would describe him as ASD/hypochondriac/anorexic/ anxiety issues. I fear he will not cope with the loss of his bestie and that he may go into a decline.....if that happened, I could be left with 1 horse, who would not cope being alone. In an ideal world I would find another youngster to bring on, but circumstances are not ideal and I do not have the right amount of time to do that for the next 2 years.

So....what do I do? I know Bert will probably be leaving us soon( which breaks my heart?), I fear I will lose Bill as well (breaks my heart even more?)...and I can't have Pooh on his own, but I'm not in the position to buy a permanent replacement ( being sensible)

Any suggestions?

It's a horrid time your in, and so many of us have been there in the past- present and future. I know you say Bill may get stressed, but speaking from my experience where my mare of a life time was put to sleep which broke my heart in a 100000 pieces which have never mended. Her son and her were sooooo close.
we took him out while she was injected, then brought him back in to sniff her and come to terms. I did not want him not to say goodbye without seeing her after she past. So he sniffed her, she tried to nip his nose, and out he went. He understood when he came back,. Yes he did go within himself, and depressed., withdrawn for some time. BUT: I was there supporting him loving him more than I had done before, cuddling him and kissing him. I helped him through it.

So that is my advice, let Bill sniff Bert just before the deed, then take him away (out of ear shot if gun) Then bring him back to sniff him (cover the head if the gun) then just be there for him extra fuss and cuddles even more than normal.


I have never had gun so mine have always been injected. My mare was the only one who had her son come back after. AS the other situations were not the same.

Thoughts with you all at this hard time *virtual hugs*

 

[TheresaW]

When I had Mac pts a couple of years ago, he and Dolly had been together getting on 15 years, and Ollie had joined them about 10 years later.

Mac and Ollie were very close, and I was worried whether he would accept what had happened or not. He and Doll were the other side of the fence when it was done, and to be honest, I’m still not sure either of them have noticed to this day that he’s gone. I found it quite sad that they didn’t seem to “care”, but it also made it a lot easier.