Please support this campaign!

[EricTheFish]

To highlight the absurdity of the Hunting Act

www.labourspace.com/view_campaign?CampaignId=93&rid=ccfe3142dbc7a3350323ca44634f3ff4

If enough people vote for this then the Labour Party will be forced to present an inarguable case for the absurdity of the Hunting Act to its own ministers

 

[horseguy]

Even though I am pro hunting I would support your cause, but I will not sign up to a labour party site.

This is yet another example of the many blunders the Labour Party has done over the Years it has clung onto power.

I have similar with Defra, if I see a dog chasing my sheep, I can only shoot it with a shotgun and not a bullet gun, which is a joke, it merely means the dog will die in agony from the damage done by the shotgun if it is further than say 40 yards away.

More preferable to despatch it with a bullet, and kill it cleanly.

Fortunately I have not been in the position where I have had to do this yet.

 

[zigzagzig]

In the link provided by in the original post, Giles (who else?) says:

"I own an area of coppice woodland which I use to heat my farmhouse. red and roe deer can be a major problem because they eat the shoots of the trees after they have been coppiced preventing regrowth. For many years now I have regularly taken my dogs through my woodland. When any deer in the woods become aware of us they are flushed out.

I find that this prevents sufficient damage to the trees to allow them to regrow while also maintaining the benefits to the flora and fauna that can come from the presence of the deer.

I feel a great affinity towards these deer especially the red deer. My control methods are extremely gentle. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE DEER EVEN TO BE CHASED [my caps]. It is extremely important to me that they do not suffer nor are harmed. What I do causes the animals no more disturbance than any one else does by walking dogs through woodland.

Unfortunately Defra insist that I must now shoot the deer if I am to continue flushing them out. This is because under the Hunting Act 2004 it is illegal to flush out deer with dogs unless reasonable steps are taken to shoot them as soon as possible."



In the case DPP v. Anthony Wright, Mr Justice Maddison ruled qute unequivocally that this scenario does not constitute hunting and therefore does not contravene the Hunting Act 2004. Specifically, in answer to the question whether "the term "hunt" a wild mammal with a dog used in section 1 of the Hunting Act 2004 includes the activity of searching for a wild animal for the purpose of stalking or flushing it" he answered "No".

Given that the campaign linked in this thread is based on a simple misunderstanding of the law, I'm sure even Giles would wish to see the thread "unstuck" so it can drift peacefully down the forum list into the obscurity where it belongs.

 

[Bunce]

Searching for wild mammals has indeed been ruled legal.

BUT ONLY if the intention is to flush or stalk them in accordance with the exemptions laid down in the Hunting Act.

The Hunting Act makes it very clear that flushing out is only legal if carried out in accordance with strict conditions which aim to ensure that it is done for pest control by shooting and that there is no possibility of a chase or the animals being killed by dogs.

We have no problem with humane pest control.

 

[Bunce]

I have to acknowledge that given it is legal to flush out deer as long as tightly drawn conditions are met it would be strange if it were illegal to search for them in order to flush them out.

However trying to use the judge's ruling to infer it is now legal for hunts to flush deer from cover with more than two dogs is nonsense.

 

[Hebegebe]

I don't get your point.

The judge ruled it was legal to search for deer to flush them out.

Tony wright was flushing out of cover in accordance with the conditions that was the whole point.

Please explain your reasoning.

 

[zigzagzig]

Please refer to the "Question for Bradshaw" thread for my reasoning.

Do you know how weird it would be if you were masquerading as Bunce?

 

[Scratchline]

I have similar with Defra, if I see a dog chasing my sheep, I can only shoot it with a shotgun and not a bullet gun, which is a joke, it merely means the dog will die in agony from the damage done by the shotgun if it is further than say 40 yards away.

More preferable to despatch it with a bullet, and kill it cleanly.

If shooting foxes leads to many wounded animals how come you can all of a sudden kill a dog "cleanly", with a bullet? Do the foxes wear body armour to protect their vital organs???

 

[Hebegebe]

Most foxes are shot with shot guns. They are mainly lamped at night.

In the research I was referring to they mapped out their vital organs on cardboard targets and vets judged if they would have been wounded or not.

Skilled and unskilled shooters were tested with a variety of shooting regimes.

It's quite interesting research actually.

 

[Scratchline]

Most foxes are shot with shot guns. They are mainly lamped at night.

So shotguns shouldnt be used.

 

[Hebegebe]

Maybe.

My point is that all forms of killing/managing animals should be regulated on the basis of cruelty. Cruelty to animals is cruelty no matter how it is caused.

Different methods are also applicable to different situations.

 

[Hebegebe]

How would you compare fox hunting with say rat poisoning for the total amount of suffering caused to the target species?

 

[rafferty]

rats don't have furry tales !

 

[Victorianm]

quote 'rats don't have furry tales !'
lmao!!classic
:grin:

 

[Bunce]

How would you compare fox hunting with say rat poisoning for the total amount of suffering caused to the target species?

people don't enjoy killing rats.

 

[Herne]

<<people don't enjoy killing rats>>

.
On what evidence do you base that claim - bacause in my experience you would be almost entirely wrong.

 

[Hebegebe]

I suspect what he means is that by the means he woudl prefer they don't. Ie poisoning them.

Whereas killing them with dogs is fantastic fun and much kinder to the rats.

However he would put his moral scruples above animal welfare anyday!

 

[JanetGeorge]

people don't enjoy killing rats.

What planet do YOU live on?? :grin: Rathunting with a couple of good terriers is GREAT fun (the terriers enjoy it too!)

 

[Clodagh]

I love killing rats, better than a days fox hunting usually!
And foxes are not lamped with a shotgun, at least I have never seen it done, people use rifles.