Police Protest Tory Spite.

[AndySpooner]

I really couldn't help laughing a little this morning when I heard on the radio that the Police were upset about changes to their pay, terms and conditions, being imposed on them. They claimed the Tories were getting their revenge on them for defeating the last Tory over the same issue in 1993.

Of course the Tories do have form for revenge and spite, as demonstrated when they shut down the coal fields in the 1980's after the miners defeated Heath in the 70's

The Police were happy to help them destroy the coal industry, and virtually waged war on the miners and their families.

Still what goes around comes around, and the Police will get their's now. Divide and rule.

 

[the watcher]

That is an interesting twisted view of history.

I don't suppose there is any possibility that some mines were closed because they were not financially viable?

One or two in the Police may see it as some kind of revenge, the vast majority will simply see that the terms of pay and conditions that they signed up to when they joined are being changed - whilst Police officers are obliged to stick to their side of the contract (not allowed to strike, not allowed to do anything significant in their personal lives without permission from their employer, can be kept on duty or called on duty at any time) this obligation is not kept by Government..and the Labour party abused this too.

Federation conferences are about as vocal as police officers can get so some sabre rattling is inevitable.

 

[perfect11s]

I woulden't read much into it just see it as another bunch of over paid underworked public sector workers whining on because there isnt endless money being showered on them

 

[Dirtymare]

I woulden't read much into it just see it as another bunch of over paid underworked public sector workers whining on because there isnt endless money being showered on them

That is a very very unfair view of public sector workers!!!!!
You obviously havent worked in the public sector, or you certainly would NOT hold that veiw.
However, I do agree with The Watcher.

 

[Spudlet]

I thought about posting a response to Perfect11, but then I thought no, never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...

 

[Luci07]

Heavens, if we go down the route of political spite, then I suppose we should trot out the old "labour only supported banning hunting because of the miners"

No one likes change and certainly when it isn't actually in their favour so I DO understand (and I don't have any friends/family in the police). However, it is a reflection of the times and everyone is being hit with the cuts etc.

 

[perfect11s]

That is a very very unfair view of public sector workers!!!!!
You obviously havent worked in the public sector, or you certainly would NOT hold that veiw.
However, I do agree with The Watcher.

Sadly I havent!!!! otherwise I would be in the position of my friends who worked for the police, fire etc who are looking forward to a nice pension after a very reasonable salary.. as a self employed tradesman I will need to keep on as long as I can to maintain a reasonable standard of living as my private pension isnt worth a lot thanks mostly to gordon...

 

[1stclassalan]

That is an interesting twisted view of history.

I don't suppose there is any possibility that some mines were closed because they were not financially viable?

One or two in the Police may see it as some kind of revenge, the vast majority will simply see that the terms of pay and conditions that they signed up to when they joined are being changed - whilst Police officers are obliged to stick to their side of the contract (not allowed to strike, not allowed to do anything significant in their personal lives without permission from their employer, can be kept on duty or called on duty at any time) this obligation is not kept by Government..and the Labour party abused this too.

Federation conferences are about as vocal as police officers can get so some sabre rattling is inevitable.

Ooooh, do I see yet another occasion when I can quote - lies, damned lies and statistics?

The coalmines weren't closed because of finances - though it can be demonstrated that British Coal was more expensive to produce than foreign imports; however; none of those figures include the social security payments to whole families thrown out of work for ever - add those in and things don't look so good.

Then consider the vast subsidies and crony contracts to build new gas fired power stations that are now burning imported LPG bought in at huge cost - it's coming from Libya by the way!!! Another thread or two there I think. Russia has far more gas and nearer but our people didn't want to buy it - ipso facto the price of coal can't be used.

 

[soulfull]

That is an interesting twisted view of history.

I don't suppose there is any possibility that some mines were closed because they were not financially viable?

One or two in the Police may see it as some kind of revenge, the vast majority will simply see that the terms of pay and conditions that they signed up to when they joined are being changed - whilst Police officers are obliged to stick to their side of the contract (not allowed to strike, not allowed to do anything significant in their personal lives without permission from their employer, can be kept on duty or called on duty at any time) this obligation is not kept by Government..and the Labour party abused this too.

Federation conferences are about as vocal as police officers can get so some sabre rattling is inevitable.

Could not agree more!

Those police that were around during the miners strike were so underpaid it was stupid. I know was married to one at the time, we had a small baby and the gas bill alone came to a months salary!
We lived in a police house in the middle of a council estate surrounded by miners we all got on great!!
even on strike they could afford their gas bill and run a car, we couldn't

 

[the watcher]

Sadly I havent!!!! otherwise I would be in the position of my friends who worked for the police, fire etc who are looking forward to a nice pension after a very reasonable salary.. as a self employed tradesman I will need to keep on as long as I can to maintain a reasonable standard of living as my private pension isnt worth a lot thanks mostly to gordon...

My pension might be generous, compared to many, however I contributed 11% of my salary into the pension pot for all of my (long) police service - so I think it is a fair return. In addition when I joined the Police I took a significant salary drop from my previous job..but one of the factors that influenced my long term plan and made the injuries, the shifts, many obnoxious 'customers', the heartache of tragic accidents and the day to day stress was the certain knowledge that at the end of it was a decent pension.

Without that I would never have done it.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I really couldn't help laughing a little this morning when I heard on the radio that the Police were upset about changes to their pay, terms and conditions, being imposed on them. They claimed the Tories were getting their revenge on them for defeating the last Tory over the same issue in 1993.

Of course the Tories do have form for revenge and spite, as demonstrated when they shut down the coal fields in the 1980's after the miners defeated Heath in the 70's

The Police were happy to help them destroy the coal industry, and virtually waged war on the miners and their families.

Still what goes around comes around, and the Police will get their's now. Divide and rule.

Agree. Coming from a mining area, I have very vivid memories of that time.


Overpaid public sector workers is about right.

 

[soulfull]

My pension might be generous, compared to many, however I contributed 11% of my salary into the pension pot for all of my (long) police service - so I think it is a fair return. In addition when I joined the Police I took a significant salary drop from my previous job..but one of the factors that influenced my long term plan and made the injuries, the shifts, many obnoxious 'customers', the heartache of tragic accidents and the day to day stress was the certain knowledge that at the end of it was a decent pension.

Without that I would never have done it.

yep agree. There were loads of times wanting out of the job but the early retirement and pension only just swung it.

We constantly saw friends who bummed around then left school to go on to be plumbers, electricians etc doing far better than we were

 

[abaddon_1974]

The mines were shut down more by scargil and his cronies than anyone else.
Some of the police were bad in the strikes, the met were famous for this and were on huge amounts of overtime, but the local bobbies were not so well off.
We also need to remeber the damage and violence caused by the flying pickets who are why the police were involved in the first place.

Very easy to forget what really happened in our recent history.

On the low pay front, I wonder who on this board would swap their eyesight for a police pension. Pc Rathbone did. Or their life as numerous officers have done to try and protect others.

 

[1stclassalan]

The mines were shut down more by scargil and his cronies than anyone else.

Only if you perversely maintain that the confrontation was entirely his fault. When it obviously wasn’t ! It was all about money and the desire of the people with it to bring down the price of British coal to that of foreign imports – completely ignoring fuel security and other benefits in the process. Our deep mined coal would always be dearer to win than the opencast competition but at what cost to the environment?

Some of the police were bad in the strikes,

SOME – you say ??? SOME ??? All those I saw were cruising for a bruising and couldn’t wait to truncheon somebody – they even hit women for chrissakes!

the met were famous for this and were on huge amounts of overtime, but the local bobbies were not so well off.

Doesn’t it strike you as peculiar that the money could be found for this yet not for a decent pay settlement?

We also need to remeber the damage and violence caused by the flying pickets who are why the police were involved in the first place.

The police were brought it to break the strike – escorting strike breakers and bring about mass intimidation.

Flying pickets were not illegal at the time so trying to stop them challenged basic liberty – take away this ploy and you’ve emasculated much of the protest

Very easy to forget what really happened in our recent history.

Yes, isn’t it?

On the low pay front, I wonder who on this board would swap their eyesight for a police pension. Pc Rathbone did. Or their life as numerous officers have done to try and protect others.

I’m not surprised that you’ve wheeled out that old chestnut ! No policeman or soldier for that matter ever joins up planning to retire hurt – they mostly sign because it’s an easy option for them and then all the other perks in personal preference – to suggest other altruistic alternatives is naive in the extreme.

 

[abaddon_1974]

We also seem to have forgotten that miners killed miners both during and even long after the strikes ended.
Just for those miners wanting to carry on working for a living.
Neither side was perfect but to say it is all the Police is as wrong as saying that it was all the miners, who were before the strike earning far more than the Police were.
Don't think we will ever agree though.
You seem to think the Police are all scum, my view is somewhat reversed.

 

[Apercrumbie]

I woulden't read much into it just see it as another bunch of over paid underworked public sector workers whining on because there isnt endless money being showered on them

*Head Desk*

They get a good pension because they give up a considerable portion of their salary for the pension fund. My Mother still works for the Charity Commission (the public body that regulates charities) and every single employee in that department works ridiculously hard and well over their salaried hours. They are no longer paid overtime. What people don't realise is that the reason the public sector cuts are hitting so hard is that most departments have been cutting by about 30% the last three years anyway, and are suddenly being told to cut a further 30%. Their budget was never that generous in the first place. Please do not generalise about public sector workers who could often earn far more working in the private sector, instead they choose to benefit other people because these jobs have to be done. I won't release my Mother's salary and working hours on here, or those of her peers but rest assured, they are by no means "overpaid".

Sorry. Rant over, I just hate it when people are so misinformed.

 

[perfect11s]

*Head Desk*

They get a good pension because they give up a considerable portion of their salary for the pension fund. My Mother still works for the Charity Commission (the public body that regulates charities) and every single employee in that department works ridiculously hard and well over their salaried hours. They are no longer paid overtime. What people don't realise is that the reason the public sector cuts are hitting so hard is that most departments have been cutting by about 30% the last three years anyway, and are suddenly being told to cut a further 30%. Their budget was never that generous in the first place. Please do not generalise about public sector workers who could often earn far more working in the private sector, instead they choose to benefit other people because these jobs have to be done. I won't release my Mother's salary and working hours on here, or those of her peers but rest assured, they are by no means "overpaid".

Sorry. Rant over, I just hate it when people are so misinformed.

I just Ask how much anybodys labour is worth !!!! suddenly 30 k 60k and upwards for what in a lot of cases ??? and how hard it is to start and run a bussiness in the productive part of the economy, pay wages overheads and taxes and make a profit... My point is money is limited and does not grow on trees the public sector is a cost, does not create wealth it is an overhead and is currently costing far far more than we can afford... simple.... oh and to all these clever public sector people that think they would earn more in the private sector the answer is!!!!! ????

 

[Piglet]

Still what goes around comes around, and the Police will get their's now. Divide and rule.[/QUOTE]

Uh oh, let's go "Police bashing", obviously Andy Spooner does not really have a clue what he is talking about, I do take offence when idiots talk out of their a**e about my colleagues. At the end of the day there is good and bad in all walks of life, I really hope that if Andy Spooner ever needs the Police because either himself or someone close to him gets burgled, mugged, assaulted etc they decide "nah we can't be bothered to turn up, the guy is a muppet" - but no, we will get to his aid as quick as we can.

 

[1stclassalan]

We also seem to have forgotten that miners killed miners both during and even long after the strikes ended.

I think you will also find instances of police killing police too - but what has that to do with the price of fish? It does not advance your arguement.

Just for those miners wanting to carry on working for a living.

That my friend is an over simplification and well you know it! The miners subjected to violence were strikebreakers and therefore the deadly enemy of strikers taking money to betray "their" brothers - it actually surprises me that there wasn't more violence than there was.

Further to that, consider the deaths - I think the most famous one was the concrete block "thrown" from a motorway bridge - now, once this has killed someone the police and the law launched a massive hunt for the perpetrators aided by a vehement and vindictive press but far from being and act of deliberate murder I feel it would be far fairer to call it an act of gross stupidity, as that rock was meant to frighten rather kill.

Neither side was perfect

Absolutely.

but to say it is all the Police is as wrong as saying that it was all the miners, who were before the strike earning far more than the Police were.

I have not said the Police were totally at fault but merely enjoined against your thread which seemed extremely biased.

You seem to think the Police are all scum, my view is somewhat reversed.

If you can read and understand all I have written and yet still come up with an opinion like that - I doubt very much if we would ever agree about anything - including the colour of grass.

 

[Mike007]

I think that dropping a concrete railway sleeper from a bridge onto a lorry would be counted as murder by any rational person.

 

[YorksG]

The local police were not happy about the policing of the miners strike, nor were they happy about the behaviour of the Met officers.
I am not in police but am a public sector worker. The job I do could not be done by the private sector, for a number of reasons, some being due to legislation decreeing who I am employed by. I am sure that most public sector workers joined their professions for a number of different reasons, we remain with poor working condition (often unsafe coditions) because we were sold the myth of job security and a decent pension as a reward for long hours with no overtime paid and the possibility o retiring at an age when we could still enjoy it. As an example of the hours worked, at the beginning of my career I would go to work at 3pm on Saturday and remain there till 3pm on Monday, 16 hours of that was classed as not working, even though I still remained, at the age of 22, soley responsible for the care of 8 children from the age of 4 to 17. My career moved on and I no longer work shifts, still do not get paid overtime and have professional responsibility for decisions which can be life and death and daily have a large impact on the quality of life of the people I work with. Underworked and overpaid, come and spend a week with me at work!

 

[abaddon_1974]

Grass is green dead simple that one.

As far as any protest goes including strikes, anyone willing to use violence deserves to lose whatever they are protesting about.

As far as public sector workers being over paid etc., you are completely clueless.

 

[touchstone]

Quote "On the low pay front, I wonder who on this board would swap their eyesight for a police pension. Pc Rathbone did. Or their life as numerous officers have done to try and protect others."

Also worth remembering the thousands of miners who have given their lives over the years too, not to mention the horrific accidents and industrial diseases they suffered. Years ago these included many children, on the whole I think the mining community have made many more sacrifices than the police.

 

[Kaylum]

Public sector workers over paid are you joking? The average salary at our work is £16,000. Over paid oh yeah especially when the average salary in the UK is meant to be £26,000. We have also just lost over 200 jobs from our department and most of them being those people on the £16,000 scale and no pay rise for 2 years and probably no pay rise for the next 2 years. Sorry by pay rise I mean the 2.5% cost of living we used to get every year.

Its the management earning £175,000 you want to aim your rants at and moaning they arent getting a bonus this year and guess what non of their jobs are under threat.