Poll - field arrangements

[LankyDoodle]

How are your horses turned out?

I have just moved back to one of our old yards, but neither of my current horses have ever been there. George has always had turnout with only one other horse, and Lou has since he was 3. They are used to being the first out/in in their particular field and there have never been many other horses around to fight with. I like horses being in herds because they are herd animals, but I got the feeling today (this is my geldings' 2nd day out after a week in their stables), that one of the liveries (a man with quite a kicky, bitey horse - have been told to be wary) was not too happy about my horses going out. I haven't been told anything happened yesterday and it might just be that he wanted to see how his 2 geldings, who were kept in yesterday, took to my 2. He stood for a good 10 minutes just looking as his gelding (the one who I've been told to be wary of) did the whole alpha-horse thing with mine. I felt worried in case one of mine kicked or bit and I got a rollocking - surely this is just what horses do!!

I'm now at home panicking like a good 'un that one of them will chew another horse's rug or mane or tail, or will bite another horse or kick another horse, and I just KNOW as I saw it last night, that the minute someone goes to get their horse, my 2 dart upto the gate because they don't want to be left! Really quite concerned about this because George is quite persistent about trying to get out! YO will be getting them in weekdays anyway.

I just hear horror stories of broken legs etc, chewed manes...

 

[Jellicle]

If you had been warned about this guy's horse I expect that he was watching because he was worrying about his horse being aggressive, not yours!

I'm sure they will get used to it quickly, don't worry!

 

[stencilface]

Not on a yard, so couln't really answer the last one!

We have had ours get kicked when we get new ones. This is after long periods of 'getting to know each other' over fences, introduced one by one etc. It is always the new ones that get kicked, but it only happens once generally and has only happened to 3 horses in 15 years of introducing lots - well, kicks that are big enough to make a dent anyway

I would try not to worry - you can't stop horses being horses, and the lower ones just have to learn to keep out of the way. Mine will never be a show horse as he generally has a few bites on him. But he and his friend stand/rear at each other playing games and biting, I'd rather have a few superficial scars than a lonely horse

 

[Silverspring]

I wouldn't worry yourself, so long as you have made the YO aware of what your horse is like then it's up to them to gauge who they should or shouldn't go out with.

There is always a risk putting any horses out together but I've seen horse hammer into one another come away with a few minor scratch then spend years in the field happily grazing next to each other

they generally sort it out within a few days and no one gets hurt.

My girl runs with 6 or 7 other horses they all get along and have ended up in the field due to a bully in the other field.

We have 6 fields at the yard with 3 herds, there is a boy field for the boys that can't behave themselves round the ladies, it's got 3 young WB (by young I mean under 10!) and a young TB and a section A colt. They are known as the thugs.

We have the oldies field which my girl is in, all old biddies (old being over 22!) enjoy a mess around but no one kicks and the runnung around generally only lasts a couple minutes til they are all out of puff/bored of the nonsense.

Then we have the big field with all the other horses. We have one alpha mare who can be a tad harsh at times (which is why the biddies are separate) but she's generally ok.

 

[Ziggy_]

At our yard the horses are in a herd up to 10. The herd hasn't changed for six months now and all the horses live happily together, although the first few months when I first moved my horse were an absolute nightmare with shoes pulled, rugs ripped, new cuts every day etc etc. I tried to take her out of the herd but she spent all day fence walking, so I stuck her back in their and let them sort it out, which they did although it took a long time.

Our YO tends to arrange the horses either into groups of geldings, or one gelding with a group of mares as she says the geldings tend to fight over the mares. I've never had geldings so can't offer an opinion on that, but it seems to work pretty well although there's some boisterous play fighting amongst the geldings sometimes (like the poster above we have a 'thugs' field!)

Overall I like keeping my mare as part of a herd, I feel that the other horses tend to keep her in line and she is much more settled as a result. I was going to offer my opinion on your OP but I've spent so long typing this I've forgotten what I was going to say - if the YO accepts that they will probably fight a bit at first and isn't going to hold you responsible or allow the other owner to do so, I'd be inclined to stick it out, although perhaps as you have two horses it might just be easier to keep them as a pair.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

my 2yo kicked my 5 month old yesterday purely down to jelousy!

No harm done, niether have shoes and it wasnt a 'beating' or anything.

my girlie (foals mum) always warns off the 2yo by giving her a bite and my loan boy always tells off the 2yo if she gets in his way.

they've all been together for a long time and are all mine yet all have little arguements- on the same hand the 2yo and baby play and sleep together and my loan boy and 2yo sleep together!

 

[Eira]

Up to ten in the 'herd' (there is 9 atm)
The field is big enough there are never any ''curfuffles'
We had one horse fracture his leg (but suspect it wasn't a kick)
YO will move the horse to another field if problems

 

[Solstar]

My 2 are out with one other horse, in a 2 acre field.

My TB is very dominant- so they do play nicely until he gets upset/they try to mess with him!
Recently, a coloured youngster was turned out in the group- it was absolute hell. This carried on for a week, even though I and the 2 other girls were asking for the youngster to be moved, until the TB came in last week with a chewed tail. I got really annoyed- and the YM moved the youngster the next day.

Now the group of 3 has settled again, they're all alot happier.

 

[stencilface]

We did used to have a horse who was a total nightmare. A welsh D and a total ar*e! He used to relentlessly chase the newbies around and around our 6 acre field and 'corner' them as often as he could. This went on for about 2 hours solid when they were first put in - very stressful for all concerned.

Thats was until I got my spritely 2nd pony, who ran the legs off him. Poor boy was totally b*ggered!!!

 

[LankyDoodle]

Thanks for all the replies.

The thing that worries me more than anything else is that George, although definitely not a nasty horse in any way, will not be bullied, cornered, hassled or pushed around: if any horse tries to boss him around or shows ANY aggresion towards him, he will show THEM not to mess with him. He doesn't exactly do anything but warns them that he might - he will o at them ears back and squeal, he might go to bite them but doesn't and he very occasionally might turn his bum on them to warn them. These are all things I consider to be normal to horses as wild animals, but things which might earn him a reputation among other liveries if his actions are taken out of context (ie, him having small person syndrome). He doesn't chew or anything like that and he tends to like to be left alone and leaves other horses alone, but like I said, if one of the big bullies in the herd singles him out then he will tell them in no uncertain terms to p off.

At the moment they are all trying to sort out the herd dynamics and those who are already in charge are trying to assert that, while my 2 being new are trying to find their place. There is a pony in the herd which belongs to the YO and he can be a bit like George and everyone seems to accept that. Not nasty, but self-protective.

Before this, he spent 6 years in a field with my mare as his fieldmate; they sorted out the dynamics early on and she left him alone and vice versa. Then we bought Lou and they went to another yard together, shared a field. They had their arguments but they seemed to settle after a few weeks. I am sure it will settle, but I am very aware of other people's feelings and the fact there are 2 bullies in the field (I know George will not like them at all).

 

[Marchtime]

Mine goes out alone through choice. He isn't nice to others in the field and doesn't take kindly to being made to share. We tried a few times with different horses and each time he ran the horse down. Luckily the other horses were never hurt but we decided it wasn't worth risking. It starts off as play and then somewhere along the line he turns evil. Strangely he lived out until a few months before we got him aged 4yrs. Until then he had been in a big herd running wild so I wonder whether this affected him in some way.

 

[NeilM]

In answer to your Poll.

My OH bought her own land in order to get away from the situation of her horse being turned out in unsuitable company.

She (the horse not the OH) is a herd leader and with youngsters about, it all used to get a bit nasty / fraught.

OH has always had at least one other horse on her land but last year she bought a gelding, as she was fed up with having other folks renting.

The two horses have slowly got to know each other better and better and for a while we had a young mare in there too, with not problems.

The only time things got tense, was when a friend put her ID x gelding in with our two. Our gelding got very protective and heels flew. The poor ID did not know what had hit him, as he is a real gentleman, so we separated them, but it was clear our boy was not going to tolerate another male in HIS field with HIS mare!


I suspect in your case, the man watching his gelding was more worried about his boy kicking yours, rather than the other way about. If we put more horses in with ours, I would probably watch them for a while, just in case things turned nasty.

 

[LankyDoodle]

That is interesting. We put our 2 out first yesterday so that all other horses were then introduced to the field after them and they met them one by one. Today, our 2 were the last out and there were 2 horses in there (belonging to the man) that were not out yesterday for some reason. Yesterday, our horses had a run round on their own and were fine when others were introduced. However, today, when mine went out with the 2 bullies in the herd, there was loads of running around for about 15 minutes (especially after I put George in). They ran up and down, stopped and had a bit of kicking and ears back business, then ran up and down. Then they settled and every 20 minutes or so they would squeal a bit and get a bit fighty, then settle again. When I left they were all settled. I think it is just settling the score type stuff.

 

[Booboos]

I hate introducing a new horse, everyone else goes nuts!

I have mine at home and they go out in pairs. I had three together before with no problem but one of them took a strong dislike to number 4, so I am not risking it again.

 

[oofadoofa]

I like to turn out in pairs mostly as I find it causes the least upset! I try to match horses as well as possible, but find there is usually very little trouble if it's just 2 in the field together.

 

[hedgehog1]

Mine when they are in work and have shoes on get turned out individually - I have had 1 with a leg broken before and I cannot afford that to happen again!

However, the yearlings/2/3 year olds are out in herds - if heres mega-bullying going on we change them around but generally it works fine, they sometimes bash each other around but no damage has ever been done.

 

[Tia]

I own my yard and horses here are kept outside 24/7. Some herds have 13 horses in them, some have 3 - totally depends on who gets on with who. I like to keep same sized horses together; except in the youngster field obviously where I have bigger mares helping to keep them out of trouble.

On the whole, once a herd is established, yes they do all get along nicely. With running such large herds, each horse can find it's own special friend and don't have to get along with just one or two others.

I don't have any bullying going on here, so the minute I see it, I keep a very close eye and if the horses don't settle down then I move one, generally the bossy one and then he goes into a field where there are others above him on the pecking order. This generally only happens when horses are new here and usually only takes a short time to figure out who gets on with who. No person ever gets blamed for the actions of their horses, however they have to be aware that I will move their horse, or others horses, if they don't fit in with a particular herd.

 

[tabithakat64]

We have one large mixed, age, sex, size herd of 8 to 15 horses and a smaller 3 horse herd.

At our yard if you don't like the field arrangements you go else where, what we have works for us and it isn't ever changed for new-comers.

In 12 years there has only been one serious 'fighting' related field injury and although some chasing usually goes on most horse are fully accepted after the first two days. However we have very large fields which I think really helps as well as a fairly stable herd.

I cannot ever remember any of our geldings fighting over mares, the mares are the ones you chase newbies.

I am completely happy with this arrangement and would not move to a yard with individual of same sex turnout and previously this is when past horses have been injured or bullied, I also like my horse to have as much social contact as possible.

 

[OWLIE185]

I would not allow my horses to go in a field with anyone elses horses. It is a recipe for disaster. Don't want my horses off work or to have to spend mt time treating them as a result of an injury from someone elses hors(s). Neither do I want the the vets bills.

Yards should have to offer individual turn out.

Yes in the wild horses are herd animals but the herds stay the same. At yards they change all the time and with that brings the danger of you horse being injured.

My vets tell me that a good 30% of the horses they treat are a result of injuries in the field.

Insurance companies should not pay out on injuries received as a result of accidents in the field as this causes premiums to increase.

 

[Hippona]

we have 2 groups of up to 10 horses, mixed mares/geldings.....and they pretty much get on , no real bother at all TBH. Horses are turned out/in at different times - my 3 tend to hang out together as they are out first and in last usually ( 9-5 job!) but they generally play together.

That said, our new pony got the s*** kicked out of him for a week, partly because I think he's a bit scooby- do and couldnt be bothered to move out of the way, but no harm done and pecking order was sorted out eventually.

One gelding was moved from the other group into ours because he was hounding a little mare, - the only mare in our group is my OH's and she was more likely to kick his head in...so that settled that!!

 

[SDH]

my friend and I moved to a new yard a few weeks ago. Her horse kicked an existing livery's horse. Said livery complained to YO and now we have own field.
Works perfectly for us.

I do think given a few more days to settle, they probably would have worked out the pecking order and it wouyld have been fine.
But it wasn't my horse on the recieving end and i suppose if it was, i would be cheesed off

 

[Tia]

I never really like to compare domestic horses to wild horses (hardly any wild horses left in the world mind you) however as you raised the subject I feel that I should point out that horses who do not belong to a herd, in a feral situation, generally do not survive. Herds are a huge part of the horses instinctive nature. Pecking orders are a natural behaviour pattern for horses, and I actually think, are very important for the psyche of horses.

I would be aghast if the world became your Utopia

. Where horses would all live alone and insurance companies would not pay out for people who choose to keep their horses in as natural an environment as possible. I do wonder what insurance companies would then do when the incidence of behaviour-related illnesses increased dramatically as a direct result of withholding the fundemental necessities for the horses. Equine interaction is a NEED for a horse, it's not just something we do because we want to save space or make it easier for the feeder/handler - it's done like this FOR the horses sake.

Keeping horses in herds is always a risk, no doubt about that, and yes accidents will always happen; very often not through any nastiness just as a result of the volume of animals galloping around and bouncing into one another. I've had a few accidents happen within herds over the decades, all have been from horses bombing about and colliding even though I keep all of my herds in large pasture fields. I make this known to ALL new liveries, that this is the compromise you make when you choose to keep horses in this fashion. All of my liveries totally agree with my philosophies and none of them would ever want their horses living alone as they also are fully aware of the needs of their horses.

Horses kept on their own may well not have as many field related accidents, but they also must live a very unnatural existence and not something I would ever choose to do. Horses for courses though.

Just out of interest; do you own your own land? And do you offer individual turnout to your liveries, if you have any?

 

[LankyDoodle]

I agree with Tia. I have kept my horses in paddocks of no more than 2, but they have always been part of one big field so, although not ideal, better than completely separated.

I prefer the herd arrangement as horses need as much social contact as possible with other horses, outside of the man-made environment of the stable block. Time to play and be horses together.

I really believe that the 'fighting' is about them all settling the score and seeing who is boss (I believe it's between George and the bully; and sadly, I think Lou is going to become the bullied one as he's just like that), and it will settle down. The reason I worry is I don't want people thinking George is viscious as he isn't - he's a horse! I am worried because I know so many people who think horses should not behave in this way because they have become so used to the animals being highly domesticated. Domesticated or not, they are still horses and placed in their natural environment of a herd, they will still do this hooning around.

I think herds in the wild do change - granted not in a manufactured way, like those on yards.

I would not want an insurance company to stop paying out for accidents in the field (how would you implement it - accidents can still happen with a horse kept on its own, and actually may be more likely if the horse is a stress head when alone) anymore than I would wish for them to stop insuring against injuries incurred when the horse is partaking in dangerous sports like XC.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I think herds in the wild do change

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they do

. I just didn't want to get into that as my post would then have been way longer than it already is

. Thanks for raising that point

.

 

[amandaco2]

my 3 all go in my own fields.
the 2yo and 5yo dont seem to get on-one is jealous and the other thinks there is food!the 18yo gets on with them all-she just lays her ears back and the other two bugger off

at the moment the 5yo is in her own field as it gets too muddy if they are all in together
that said im told they all get along fine when i am not there!LOL

 

[tabithakat64]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not allow my horses to go in a field with anyone elses horses. It is a recipe for disaster. Don't want my horses off work or to have to spend mt time treating them as a result of an injury from someone elses hors(s). Neither do I want the the vets bills.

Yards should have to offer individual turn out.

Yes in the wild horses are herd animals but the herds stay the same. At yards they change all the time and with that brings the danger of you horse being injured.

My vets tell me that a good 30% of the horses they treat are a result of injuries in the field.

Insurance companies should not pay out on injuries received as a result of accidents in the field as this causes premiums to increase.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a bit of an extreme response, turnout (and the associate social interaction) is the most important thing to me. I realise that some horses will not get on in a herd environment and group turnout where the groups changes all the time or there isn't enough space isn't a great idea and injuries are likely to result.

I realise that I am very lucky to have use of such large fields. Our main herd is fairly stable, we haven't had any new horses for months as many of the liveries have been on the yard ten years or more.

I would be very surprised if the 30% of field injuries your vet spoke about were actually caused to one horse by another horse.

 

[Coffee_Bean]

Horses will be horses!

Mine is turned out with my friends two, 2 mares and a gelding.

Mares do not like each other and one is a bit of a bully, so they do not play nicely all the time. The youngster kicks and bites mine (or attempts to) regularly but she doesn't have shoes on, and mine can turn faster than the youngster anyway. Never had any serious incidents, just a few ripped rugs and nicks etc. But mine knows to stay bottom of the pecking order and they get on most of the time!