Ponies that 'plant'

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shadowboy

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Morning all, I shall give you some background if thats ok first.

I have a 3yr 7month NF Gelding who has not a bad bone in his body and I have owned him since he was 9 months. He was backed end of July, and has been hacking out once or twice a week since then. He hasnt been anywhere near an arena (my personal preference untill he's 4) He was the easiest boy to back and is very good to steer, stands to mount etc etc. Not spooky, goes first last, in between - basically he's like a pro.

BUT, whan hacking alone he can 'plant' himself and wont move. In the 12 years I have been starting youngstock I've never had one with SUCH sticky feet. All youngsters will try it but i've never had such a stubborn one!

He leaves yard nice and keen and all of a sudden (always a random location) will just stop dead. Sometimes a little click of the tongue and hes good to go, but on wednesday he did his worst. He stopped and no matter what i did would not move forward. I clicked, squeezed, kicked and used my whip whop (natual horsemanship flippy floppy rope as I dont like to carry a whip with a youngster) and nothing. Not even sideways or backwards. No headtossing or sillyness just dead still. After trying to wait him out- I got off led him on untill I could find somewhere to get back on and we carried on our way.

How on earth do i get him going forwards if he doesnt respond?! Saddle has been fitted to him and rechecked 2 weeks ago. Teeth were done in August- he is in a nueue Schule loose ring lozenge so very mild bit.

Once we get past his sticky feet he trots on when asked etc and seems happy as larry, its the sticky feet issue I need to sort before his 3 month holiday!
 
I've been there - SO frustrating. The only thing that I find works is not to let it happen, which basically means thinking about their walk the entire time 1,2,3,4 etc etc etc gently using your legs in time to the stride. Talking to them and generally not allowing even a moment of "switch off" in your head otherwise they feel it and take the opportunity to stop (natives) or stop due to perceived lack of signals (warmbloods). Tiring for you but they do get over it. Schooling whips only work if used before the feet stop moving so IMO you may as well use your legs to the same effect if you have the stamina. As far as I can tell there is zero point smacking a horse which has properly planted.

Someone else may have a less exhausting suggestion....
 
Thanks, some of what you said may well be the cause- he's so easy I just relax on hacks and bam- he's stopped! I'm going to have to actually 'ride' him I think!
 
ooooooh I would like to know the answer to this too please!!!!!!!!!

My daughter has a young newforest who plants, in fact, she'd rather not do much more than a walk at any point if possible!!

She is VERY sweet and safe, doesn't spook etc etc. She is fully checked out by vet, saddler, farrier.....

She will go into a trot if you put a dinky jump in front of her, but walks straight after. She will also canter out hacking behind my exracer, but nowhere else, especially not in the school!!

She is totally unphased by whips, legs, voice........ She's just a chilled out little person in her own little world!

Thank you so much Shadowboy for posting this thread. Good luck with your boy!! :)
 
No, mine did this yesterday, I had to stop in a lane, due to car approaching, and then he would not go on.
I may add that I had great difficulty to get him to move at all, and usually I can break the plant with a lift of the inside rein and a tap on the outside shoulder, but this time he was "set square"
I sometime get him to back up, to free the legs, but he was in a total strop, got him going again eventually but I am afraid to confess that we went back down the lane, and not in to the courtyard where he had planted. Not a good idea, but I was running out of patience, and time.
 
Sounds to me that he just isnt ready to go out solo yet! Be careful with too much forward encouragement with your legs when they plant like that as its just asking for him to start rearing (been there, done that and it wasnt nice!) easiest thing to do when they plant like that is turn them in a very small circle (literally back on themselves) and then ask again, if he doesnt go forwards, repeat the other way. He napping and has to learn that it is NOT acceptable - best nip it in the bud now before it becomes a much bigger problem. good luck
 
ChristmasPixie said:
ooooooh I would like to know the answer to this too please!!!!!!!!!

My daughter has a young newforest who plants, in fact, she'd rather not do much more than a walk at any point if possible!!

She is VERY sweet and safe, doesn't spook etc etc. She is fully checked out by vet, saddler, farrier.....

She will go into a trot if you put a dinky jump in front of her, but walks straight after. She will also canter out hacking behind my exracer, but nowhere else, especially not in the school!!

She is totally unphased by whips, legs, voice........ She's just a chilled out little person in her own little world!

Thank you so much Shadowboy for posting this thread. Good luck with your boy!! :)
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I suspect this is slightly different it is due to lack of "education" and "laziness" you may need to do a workout every day to build up fitness and "get her going"
As long as she is strong and aged 4 or five, you can lunge over trotting poles, get her going and do not accept any laziness, she has to walk and trot when asked, and not stop when it suits.
Also you don't say what age, but with my boy he was not very strong, so never offered the canter on the lunge until this year [aged seven!] there are balance and strength issues to consider, , as long as he is cantering in the field and out hacking, there is no suggestion it is conformational.
If you get an instructor to help, I suspect she will say "your pony needs to learn to go off the leg"
 
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My 6 year old tb x sec D does this but on in-hand hacks (not ridden at the mo for various reasons). I find that moving him sideways from the ground helps to an extent but it's so frustrating and he's not fussed by me shoo-ing him or flapping leadrope at him or making him circle on the spot. Eventually he decides to carry on and when he does he gets much encouragement. It can take us an hour to move 100m (but I don't give in - I'm more stubborn than he is!).The people in the village must think we're a right pair!

I've been using clicker training with him on the ground to help with despooking so thinking I need to get this working for him when out and about too but I'm finding it hard to use the clicker to encourage him to keep walking as I click when he walks on but then he tends to slow and stop as he takes the treat and the whole cycle begins again....
 
georgiegirl said:
Sounds to me that he just isnt ready to go out solo yet! Be careful with too much forward encouragement with your legs when they plant like that as its just asking for him to start rearing (been there, done that and it wasnt nice!) easiest thing to do when they plant like that is turn them in a very small circle (literally back on themselves) and then ask again, if he doesnt go forwards, repeat the other way. He napping and has to learn that it is NOT acceptable - best nip it in the bud now before it becomes a much bigger problem. good luck
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I agree that too much leg after they've planted may produce a rear (also been there!), the trick is keeping the feet moving however slowly to prevent a plant. I would only use strong legs on a planted horse if I'd got its head turned and could properly feel its mouth. If the level of schooling isn't there for that, which it often isn't when they're at the planting stage, I'd be tempted to get off and lead him for a few steps just to break the plant then get back on. Eventually they get the idea!
 
shadowboy said:
Once we get past his sticky feet he trots on when asked etc and seems happy as larry, its the sticky feet issue I need to sort before his 3 month holiday!
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Keep an eye on his ears, I can usually tell when mine will nap, and a good firm kick in the ribs before the stop works best.
Trotting on past napping points is often best, also make sure he is on the bit and doing something all the time, if you are daydreaming he will know and take advantage. Try leg yields, this is a good start to dressage and great for getting past scary objects.
 
georgiegirl said:
Sounds to me that he just isnt ready to go out solo yet! Be careful with too much forward encouragement with your legs when they plant like that as its just asking for him to start rearing (been there, done that and it wasnt nice!) easiest thing to do when they plant like that is turn them in a very small circle (literally back on themselves) and then ask again, if he doesnt go forwards, repeat the other way. He napping and has to learn that it is NOT acceptable - best nip it in the bud now before it becomes a much bigger problem. good luck
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I agree with this, i wouldn't be expecting him to hack out alone at this stage.
I'd hack out with a sensible older horse, make sure everything is going well then turn him away for his holiday.
Unfortunately this has already turned into a habit so i'd do very short rides, the shorter the better so he doesn't get a chance to stop, back to the yard, plenty of fuss etc.
 
georgiegirl said:
Sounds to me that he just isnt ready to go out solo yet! Be careful with too much forward encouragement with your legs when they plant like that as its just asking for him to start rearing (been there, done that and it wasnt nice!) easiest thing to do when they plant like that is turn them in a very small circle (literally back on themselves) and then ask again, if he doesnt go forwards, repeat the other way. He napping and has to learn that it is NOT acceptable - best nip it in the bud now before it becomes a much bigger problem. good luck
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Really? He's keen to get going and once you unstick him he's again fine and goes off happy as larry. I assumed perhaps nievely that he was ok alone as he's keen to leave the yard etc.

I tried turning- he wouldnt budge hence why I got off. I think more positive riding is needed on my part- i had been riding in a very leisurely manner so by the time he's planted it was too late.

I just want to sort it before turning him away until he's rebacked in spring. Unless perhaps he's trying to tell me he needs his holiday already!
 
AshTay said:
My 6 year old tb x sec D does this but on in-hand hacks (not ridden at the mo for various reasons). I find that moving him sideways from the ground helps to an extent but it's so frustrating and he's not fussed by me shoo-ing him or flapping leadrope at him or making him circle on the spot. Eventually he decides to carry on and when he does he gets much encouragement. It can take us an hour to move 100m (but I don't give in - I'm more stubborn than he is!).The people in the village must think we're a right pair!

I've been using clicker training with him on the ground to help with despooking so thinking I need to get this working for him when out and about too but I'm finding it hard to use the clicker to encourage him to keep walking as I click when he walks on but then he tends to slow and stop as he takes the treat and the whole cycle begins again....
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Long reining is essential imho to get him going boldly in front of you, use a well balanced lunge whip with a foot long tail, preferably made of a thick bit of rope, tap him behind the withers with this. I think he is taking the proverbial and you need to get him going, get an instructor [one with breaking experience] to help with the long reining, it is easy to learn, but easier if you have someone there to help. I think you will find your instructor will not put up with this nonsense!
 
jhoward said:
water pistol up the jacksie...
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I know that was probably a joke, but quite seriously that is the kind of thing that produces a fright rear from a youngster. I'm afraid I am inclined to take things rather literally and don't have much of a sense of humour where youngsters are concerned (except when I get dumped in the dirt then all you can really do is laugh) :o
 
no it wasnt a joke, ive used it on many nappers, including one that did rear, so long as the rider has a decent seat and is able to give with the hands so the horse doesnt get a jab in the gob and can continue to ride said horse forward it works a treat.

I have never yet had a horse in responce to it. just shoot forward.
 
I think both problems sound like lack of education. How was he broken in if he hasn't seen a school? Or is it since then that he hasn't? I think the school is necessary to establish his understanding of the aids and agree that too much trotting in circles is probably not what you want for your 3 yr old but you can't really teach him properly on a hack. I agree that he is also too young and inexperienced to go on his own - will he follow another horse happily?

Too much leg after the plant will also get him used to the idea of ignoring the leg.
 
My youngster does it, she is also totally unflappable. Once planted she will not move. At all. I've tried leading her too, no go. The only thing that works is boredom, she's clever and nosey, so we just stand about until she's fed up (doesn't take that long-easily bored!) then leg on just as she's about to move off, so she's being 'asked' to go. I no longer try to force her to go as I don't want her learning she can ignore me, so she stops, I act like it was my idea, likewise when we walk on. She's getting over it now! Might just be a phase.
 
Brandy said:
I think both problems sound like lack of education. How was he broken in if he hasn't seen a school? Or is it since then that he hasn't? I think the school is necessary to establish his understanding of the aids and agree that too much trotting in circles is probably not what you want for your 3 yr old but you can't really teach him properly on a hack. I agree that he is also too young and inexperienced to go on his own - will he follow another horse happily?

Too much leg after the plant will also get him used to the idea of ignoring the leg.
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Nope he's never set foot in a school. Since he was 2 he was long reined in the field and then out on the bridleways/lanes. He has done a lot of in hand work with voice commands that were then used in conjunction with leg aids. He turns well and knows commands to move up to trot and canter. I can move him over to get through narrow gates, past other horses out hacking in groups etc so I have taken this as un understanding of the aids. He slows his trot if I slow my rising and his canter is very balanced naturally.

I may well be wrong - and happy to be told so- as it is all for his benefit but I to not perceive an arena to be essential in starting a youngster.

He is happy to follow another but has never got upset if they get out of view (he is the smallest/slowest on the yard) and ofter falls behind the big hunters/TBs. On the local common they often go off for a blast and we wait at the gate and he stads quietly waiting for them to return- again what I took as an indicator suggesting he is happy to hack alone.

Nevertheless if all feel he is too young I shall hold off untill March time and try again?
 
Beausmate said:
My youngster does it, she is also totally unflappable. Once planted she will not move. At all. I've tried leading her too, no go. The only thing that works is boredom, she's clever and nosey, so we just stand about until she's fed up (doesn't take that long-easily bored!) then leg on just as she's about to move off, so she's being 'asked' to go. I no longer try to force her to go as I don't want her learning she can ignore me, so she stops, I act like it was my idea, likewise when we walk on. She's getting over it now! Might just be a phase.
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May I ask how long the 'phase' took to start to pass?
 
jhoward said:
no it wasnt a joke, ive used it on many nappers, including one that did rear, so long as the rider has a decent seat and is able to give with the hands so the horse doesnt get a jab in the gob and can continue to ride said horse forward it works a treat.

I have never yet had a horse in responce to it. just shoot forward.
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I must admit to using a fly spray to load a filly, it worked!
 
Ok - what i meant rather than an actual arena, was a place to school/teach that wasn't on hacks - so the work in the field and on the lanes I guess would be that. A school isn't essential with all horses by any means, I guess i've had some loons that I would NOT want to be starting out on a lane somewhere! I did have a pony that wouldn;t lunge and he was started on hacks, but it did take longer I think. From what you say here then it sounds like he knows what the aids are, but there must be a reason that he is ignoring them?

I would maybe hack out with others for a while, so long as he doesn't do it when he is following the others? Maybe it is just a phase, albeit an annoying one.
 
Having a horse that still plants himself on a ride after 2 years I cant help Im afraid ! Good luck with yours, patience sometimes pays off, waiting him out. But he is still v young isnt he so hopefully a phase.
However, have just ridden another horse out for the first time and I went round the block so fast my eyes were watering !
 
I have a similar age and I suspect similar temperament highland. She was professionally backed and ridden away and came home a few weeks ago. I want to just keep her ticking over during the winter, literally working twice a week, once ground work and once short hack.
She does exactly as your boy does, strides out really happily, past any multitude of scarey things then for no apparent reason will just plant. Not scared of anything just "actually thats far enough now".
I cant give you an answer though-sorry! just wanted you to know not alone :)
I basically just wait a bit (you could kick till you were blue in the face so pointless), then try to unstick her feet by asking for a bit of movement in any direction. once you get that tiny bit of movement then legs will help.
I dont take her in the school as we both lose the will to live as she is so backwards thinking. Once she moves on hacks she is actually forward going and enjoys it.
I do try to hack in company in which case she is fine and often wants to take the lead, but not always practical.
I dont see it as an issue in "learning bad habits" tbh, as long as you always win, regardless if that entails getting off. think they are more likely to learn that planting doesnt work :confused:
 
jhoward said:
no it wasnt a joke, ive used it on many nappers, including one that did rear, so long as the rider has a decent seat and is able to give with the hands so the horse doesnt get a jab in the gob and can continue to ride said horse forward it works a treat.

I have never yet had a horse in responce to it. just shoot forward.
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That is interesting to hear. Sorry I misunderstood you :)
 
shadowboy said:
May I ask how long the 'phase' took to start to pass?
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She used to do it fairly regularly, sometimes on the way out of the yard, sometimes on the way back, sometimes in between. No obvious reason. Never did it more than a couple of times on any one ride and once she'd started off again would keep going for a while, ie she wouldn't just go 100 yards then stop again, she'd happily mooch on for a fair way. Never seemed to stop in the same place either.

I've not ridden her that much this year, but she's only done it once (I had moved yards though), but it took a while to get her going-almost like she'd been saving up! I suppose it's taken about a year/18 months to get her over it, every time (once I found that doing something didn't work!) I just waited her out and now she's pretty well given up.

It was almost like she was working out where she was. My old fart numpty TB did a similar thing when I moved yards, just planted, gazing out across the landscape. Took me a while to catch on to the fact he was looking towards the previous yard. He has an amazing sense of direction, so if that's why they do it, you should never get lost!!
 
MrsD123 said:
Long reining is essential imho to get him going boldly in front of you, use a well balanced lunge whip with a foot long tail, preferably made of a thick bit of rope, tap him behind the withers with this. I think he is taking the proverbial and you need to get him going, get an instructor [one with breaking experience] to help with the long reining, it is easy to learn, but easier if you have someone there to help. I think you will find your instructor will not put up with this nonsense!
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Thank you! I have started long reining on the school and paddock with him but it just doesn't feel safe on the roads (maybe my lack of experience and confidence as not done that much of it - had someone very experienced teach me, now need more practise) but I want to keep him "hacking out" as he was starting to hack out alone ridden really nicely (no planting!) but then I had to stop riding him. I should also add that he doesn't do this everytime I walk him out, it seems to come in phases and then go away again and he's loads better than he used to be.
 
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