pony bought for 11 yo last week now rearing...

ester

ester

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I just want to check that I am giving sensible advice here and wondered if any of you had any extra thoughts.

Pony purchased one week ago, ad described as 100% in every way. buyer asked if it reared.. told no.

Pony has been ridden by child's instructor and has proved very nappy, and reared when asked to go past the field gate on the way back from a hack. Seller has been contacted and has said that pony has previously reared when leading in from the field (some time ago/before she had it). New owner obviously not happy for daughter to now ride this pony (3k spent). They also cannot get near the pony in the field..it kicks.
Obviously we have all the usual pony not been in home very long, poss a bit young- 7 unsettled etc but I don't think a pony intended for a child should be rearing quite that easily, kid is competent but not that confident. However the previous owner could also be telling the truth and it hasn't reared with her (she is a 30 yo, although it has supposedly been pony clubbed so must also have been ridden by kids at some point)

New owner has contacted solicitor but has been told that because she signed a sold as seen piece of paper she might not be able to proceed, is this correct? Do they actually carry out that much weight?

Would owner contacting the BHS helpline be beneficial over and above her contacting her own solicitor?

I have suggested the following.
All future contact with seller to be by email/letter so there is a paper trail
get solicitor to write letter to say you want to send pony back as not as described and therefore flouting the sale of goods act to the seller.
Do some digging to try and find out if anyone else knows about this pony's rearing (or not) history, contact pony club DC etc (obv she should have done this previously).

Any other thoughts? I have said that the general consensus on here is that it is sometimes not worth the agro of taking it to court and that selling on is sometimes the better/easier/sensible option.
 
How much contact had there been with the previous owner? Has she been asked to take the pony back and refused? I would initially appeal to her good nature and at least discuss the issue at length, see if she will visit and observe the pony napping etc and see what her opinion or input is before getting a solicitor involved. Obviously if she has no interest in calm discussion get your solicitor involved but I would try to find an amicable solution first. As much as anything else a solicitor will cost you money you won't necessarily recover and you might not end up any better off than you are now. I would also get the opinion of a recognized independent professional about the pony's behaviour
 
Sorry phone cut me off mid-flow!
It would also be useful to get an independent view on whether the rider's/handler's actions are having a negative effect on the pony's behaviour
 
The really important thing is to make sure everyone stays safe...sounds like the pony is being a little t*** and the last thing anyone wants is a 11 year old losing all confidence.
Firstly I would get back in touch with the previous owners and see if they can come and have a look and see if the pony behaves badly for them aswell. Put it to them that it would be nice to get some help rather than complaining...the reason I say this is because legally I dont think you have a leg to stand on.
If the pony displays bad behaviour in front of previous owners it will be diffcult for them to deny it and as pony was sold as a kids ride they may have second thoughts and return some / all of your money.
It could just be that the pony is testing his new 'owners' and it is a big change but the childs safety and confidence would be my main concerns...
 
As I understand the pony has turned into a bit of an evil tit. Afaik owner has refused to take pony back or assist once the rearing was reported (not 100% sure on this though so will ensure they have actually asked!)

If it had been the kid riding I might be inclined to suggest that a mistake on her part incited the rearing.. pulled back at wrong time for example. As it was her instructor I'm pretty confident this was not the case and that the pony thinks this is an acceptable avoidance. I agree that it could just be the pony testing his new owners I can understand them not wanting to work through that when there is a kid involved. Doesn't necessarily mean the seller is in the wrong though either then. Our mare has reared in hand in the past.. but in all the years she has been broken (13 ish) she has never reared under saddle.
 
Bloomin phone did it again...

Sorry don't know how experienced you are, I'm not trying to imply anything, and I agree with you a children's pony should not behave like that, just trying to play devils advocate.
 
lol don't worry!

In some ways I am all up for a kids pony being quirky.. but only if they are sold as such not paragons of virtue..
 
LouS said:
Pretty sure they have no comeback if they've signed a receipt saying 'sold as seen'.
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agree with this. Having previously bought a horse advertised as a brilliant allrounder, (advert with showjumping pics etc) which was infact unsound in every possible way and we had to PTS. Never had her vetted. No comeback whatsoever. Numerous solicitors dropped the defendants case as her story changed several times even tho I had previous vet reports showing a ridiculous amout of vetrinary visits bute, soundness tests etc.....we still had no comeback. A big price to pay but lesson learned the hard way. I do hope that this case can be resolved amicably though.
 
Sometimes these ponies are great with adults (did you say the previous owner was an adult?) but suss out a weak child straight away, so perhaps the previous owner has never experienced the pony behaving silly? Was the pony already napping/rearing before the instructor got on? If it was, and the instructor got on all forceful, perhaps it upset the pony even more? I'm by no means one that thinks all ponies are wonderful, they're not, they're clever little things that know every trick in the book, but this is a fairly young pony in a very new situation... Even a "bombproof" one can be upset now and again..

I think when sold as seen, there isn't any comeback, but could you move away from "solicitors at dawn" to old fashioned discussion - ask them to come over, say the child is upset as it loves the pony and really wanted this to work - could they suggest anything/come over and help... Play on their niceness, butter them up a bit. Solicitors letters will probably just get their back up and they will probably know you are unlikely to win and will say "stuff you.."
 
only have the info 3rd hand.. might nag sis to join hho ;)

previous owner was an adult but it isn't totally clear how long she had him for and am presuming previously ridden by kids as been to pony club, just not sure who with.

Instructor had taken the pony out for a hack (so it wasn't already wound up other than winding itself up!) it had been nappy a couple of times whilst out so she asked it to walk past the gate and got that reaction.

I will find out how much contact they have had with the previous owner, I do think the youngish pony in new situation is a big ask too. I think from the mum's point of view (which I do get) if it was otherwise being a bit difficult they might be more keen to persist but that rearing is a bit of a no no as a trick for her daughter's pony to have in the box at all. My thought on the paperwork (not necessarily solicitor) communication was because I think previously people on here have advised that so that there is a record of what has been said.
 
If the pony has only been in new home for one week I would leave it a bit longer before taking any drastic decisions. It could just be terrified of new environment as not yet settled in. Would it be worth getting an experienced rider to work him (hard! ) for a couple of weeks, then resassess. I have a pony who is fab with adults but freaks at first if a child gets on him, some of them are very nervous of children if they are not used to them.
 
TGM will report back, I just had a phonecall from sis earlier and said wasn't 100% sure what I would advise! I have also thought I need to ask what routine/feeding etc is going on.

Wanda.. I do now have visions of child desensitisation :D perhaps hang one in its stable? :D . My lad came from a 15 yo who had him from being a very small 11 yo. When he arrived he was a very stressed and bolshy welsh cob who no way would I have sold to an 11 yo from a handling point of view, his true character is a sweety though he was just v unsettled.
 
Could be a result of a pony who's 100% when settled and comfortable, but lacks confidence with new riders and in new situations. I have one who tries her heart out for you all the time, but easily gets scared and has been known to rear when afraid (not big at all). She hasn't done this for a good 6 months now and probably if I sold her on to a confident, experienced new owner who could read the signs of her fear and reassure her/manage it in time, she wouldn't ever do it with them. Put her in a less confident home, and yes she would revert.
 
Was it vetted and pony club references checked out? Has it got new tack? You know the usual.

My friend very very experienced bought a whp for very experienced daughter to ride, vet checked etc took months to settle, phoned the owner to say she wasn't happy etc etc would turn very quickly at any moment and bolt. Took her older daughter to straighten her out and ended up being one of the top working hunter ponies in the country.
 
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Even if it had been vetted they likely wouldn't have picked up on rearing though as its not a veterinary issue. So whether vetted or sold as seen they told them it didn't rear and it does. That has to stand for something if it was a previous known problem too.

Paragon of virtue - don't suppose it was bought in Kent? I know a dealer discussed regularly on here uses that phrase a lot on ads! Although not sure they sell many ponies?
 
kaylum no, and no, not sure about tack will mention it along with routine (sister appears to have gone out on the town!).

F and F, no def not kent!

It's a shame as I thought I had found them the perfect pony from someone I knew but for some reason they didn't want him.
 
I wouldn't be looking to bring in solicitors on this, it is likely to cost more money that can't be recovered (you can't recover legal fees in the small claims court).

Private seller cases are more difficult to win than dealer cases as the duty on the seller is basically not to deliberately make a false statement.

The difficulty the buyer will have is 1. Prooving what was actually said to them and 2. Proving that it was known by the seller to be a lie.

The receipt saying "sold as seen" is unhelpful, but I'm not sure it is a complete get out for the seller.

I think for a £3k pony the buyer would be best to try and agree something amicably with the seller if that isn't possible I think their money would be better invested in pro-schooling or in absorbing a loss made when selling on.

(ester got your pm but can't reply as I'm on my phone, will reply in more detail when I get to a PC)
 
pixie said:
The receipt may say "sold as seen", however the ad claims that pony is 100%, so surely there should be some come back?
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Unless the law has changed, isn't an advertisement "an invitation to treat"? i.e. an offer to come and do a deal? Unless purchased from a dealer, I don't think there is anything that can be done legally as the receipt is evidence of what had been agreed, and that is "sold as seen". Caveat emptor and all that.
 
difficult one as personally i feel that a week is not a very long time to settle for some ponies. what have they done with it in that first week, was that the first time it had been hacked out along that route, were they on their own? how different is the routine and environment it's in now to what it was in before?

I know that there are perfect ponies that will go from one home to the next and not bat an eyelid but i think more often there is a settling in period where they show some unwanted tricks and you think 'oh poop' ;)

we bought my daughter a pony last year, he was only just 5 but you'd think he was 15 he's so steady. she rode him on a hack on lead rein as she was a bit nervous but then rode him on her own around his paddock with no problems.
when he came to us he was very unsettled, had the runs for a week poor lad, tied himself in knots the first time we tried to walk him off our yard and we did think 'oh poop' what have we bought. 2 weeks later he'd settled down and gone back to his little old man ways and has been that way since.

yesterday we picked up another new pony for daughter (yes she's spoilt) this one is 15 yrs old but i'll still be leading her out in hand before i let daughter on her properly, just to make sure :) as i explained to daughter, pony has not only just moved house but she's started a new school as well, she's bound to feel a little lost and unsettled ;)
 
First thought is, adult rider, possibly too heavy? Too big for saddle so causing back pain? secondly a week is nothing, my new lad has had three weeks just doing the basics and only on the fourth is going to go into any work. Also if shes taken him out for the first time after only a week on his own tbh its not fair on the pony for a first ride out in unfamilar territory company would be a must to me.

I would check all tack etc and get back and teeth checked and give them a bit of chill time with an adult handler on the ground then reasess in a few weeks.

Re the sales receipt and add, unless you can prove the seller knew it reared in this exact circumstance you cant really take any action, best bet would be to give the pony a bit more time and then reschool.
 
FabioandFreddy said:
Even if it had been vetted they likely wouldn't have picked up on rearing though as its not a veterinary issue. So whether vetted or sold as seen they told them it didn't rear and it does. That has to stand for something if it was a previous known problem too.

Paragon of virtue - don't suppose it was bought in Kent? I know a dealer discussed regularly on here uses that phrase a lot on ads! Although not sure they sell many ponies?
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No it wouldn't have picked up on the rearing but surely if it was a childs pony they would have had it vetted and bloods taken in case iit was doped. That's one of the points of getting a vetting especially for a 3k child's pony.
 
They've had the pony a week, FGS.

There are to many variables to put the blame on the pony, or the previous owners for that matter. Ponies and horses can take months to settle in new homes. They are not machines! If I was the seller, I'd give them a full refund and take my pony back.
 
Sorry I can't give you any more info currently guys I think the pony is 14hhish so capable (and used to) carrying an adult (leggy 11 yo!, grown out of 1st pony).

As have said before I agree that a week is no time and given that I don't know who they are am certainly not blaming the previous owners as quite poss it has never happened before. But, if it was a proper rear (not sure on this as wasn't there!) I would be cautious/not happy about owning a pony that thought it was an acceptable avoidance tactic under saddle to significantly remove its front feet from the floor. I'm a wimp :o so I wouldn't entertain it and think riding is supposed to be enjoyable!

Hopefully they can sort it out amicably/get some help from the previous owner.
 
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