Pony jumps me out of saddle!!

[J_sarahd]

I share a 14.2 Welshie and we've spent months doing jumping training, starting from canter poles and working our way up. Yesterday, we did our first ever course in canter and he was really good but it was a case of 'sack the jockey'... he is VERY scopey - the jumps were only 60cm but he was jumping basically the height of the blocks which are around 90cm. This kept unbalancing me and I kept slipping my reins so I didn't yank him in the mouth going over. But I then couldn't regain control quickly enough to a) find the next jump in time and b) stop him just tanking as he gets very strong and very excited when jumping. My plan is to start taking him out to shows/clinics this summer and maybe even xc training...

Apart from the continued jumping lessons, adding a few extra holes into my stirrup leathers (stirrups are slightly too long to 'secure me') and putting the knee blocks back in (he has a VSD saddle, so it has removable knee blocks), is there any tips or tricks you know to make the whole thing more harmonious and in balance and so I'm not riding like a sack of poop?

 

[Equi]

I think you need to go back a step. Canter a course of poles first, then a course of xpoles. Your horse needs to learn that he doesnt jump massively. But also, you may need a better saddle. I can't imagine a VSD would be suitable for anything bigger than a crosspole.

 

[J_sarahd]

I think you need to go back a step. Canter a course of poles first, then a course of xpoles. Your horse needs to learn that he doesnt jump massively. But also, you may need a better saddle. I can't imagine a VSD would be suitable for anything bigger than a crosspole.

That's how we started our lesson and he was absolutely fine until he got a bit excited after we'd done the course a few times. It's more me than him, at the moment. He was jumping big when he were jumping single fences, but I had a longer time to sort myself out. Part of it is that, for some reason, I can't see a stride with him. In terms of the VSD, previous sharers have competed him up to 90cm in a VSD. Plus, he's not my pony, and his owner really likes Ideal VSD saddles.

 

[be positive]

It sounds in part as if he gets worse when repeating the same exercise/ course, you do need to have the stirrups at the correct length but should be able to do grids and smaller courses in a VSD if it fits you both, if I were training you I would not be allowing you to do the same course more than twice, it rarely serves any purpose and there is far more to be gained by setting up a course that can be jumped in numerous ways so the horse doesn't get ahead of you and take control.
If competing you will not often jump more than once or twice round the same course so I can never understand why people do so when training if the horse jumps it fine the first or second time it needs changing so you can make progress, maybe your instructor needs to have a bit more imagination because it sounds as if you actually coped well by slipping your reins and staying with him.

 

[J_sarahd]

It sounds in part as if he gets worse when repeating the same exercise/ course, you do need to have the stirrups at the correct length but should be able to do grids and smaller courses in a VSD if it fits you both, if I were training you I would not be allowing you to do the same course more than twice, it rarely serves any purpose and there is far more to be gained by setting up a course that can be jumped in numerous ways so the horse doesn't get ahead of you and take control.
If competing you will not often jump more than once or twice round the same course so I can never understand why people do so when training if the horse jumps it fine the first or second time it needs changing so you can make progress, maybe your instructor needs to have a bit more imagination because it sounds as if you actually coped well by slipping your reins and staying with him.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to get the stirrups sorted because they're definitely a huge factor into why I rode pretty badly! And yeah, the highest course I will probably ever jump on him is about 90cm, I don't have ambitions to be super competitive with him but just to do stuff here and there for fun. That's exactly what happened: Max knew the course, essentially, and took control and because he's a very strong pony, it was difficult to get that control back.

Do you think it's worth, when training at home, setting up a course and jumping each one individually before then connecting them all together into a course? I think she did that because she wants to make sure I have 100% control before letting us go out and compete. But I think we're very nearly there, I just need to sort my position/balance out a bit first so I don't lose him in between fences!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I share a 14.2 Welshie and we've spent months doing jumping training, starting from canter poles and working our way up. Yesterday, we did our first ever course in canter and he was really good but it was a case of 'sack the jockey'... he is VERY scopey - the jumps were only 60cm but he was jumping basically the height of the blocks which are around 90cm. This kept unbalancing me and I kept slipping my reins so I didn't yank him in the mouth going over. But I then couldn't regain control quickly enough to a) find the next jump in time and b) stop him just tanking as he gets very strong and very excited when jumping. My plan is to start taking him out to shows/clinics this summer and maybe even xc training...

Apart from the continued jumping lessons, adding a few extra holes into my stirrup leathers (stirrups are slightly too long to 'secure me') and putting the knee blocks back in (he has a VSD saddle, so it has removable knee blocks), is there any tips or tricks you know to make the whole thing more harmonious and in balance and so I'm not riding like a sack of poop?

I always teach that if the approach is being rushed, circle in front till the horse calms down then approach when horse has relaxed a bit. The over jumping is just training I am afraid, take back to basics with instructor who specialises in jumping ad they get many clients whose horses do this and know how to resolve it. Don't rush to get to x country till he is jumping in the school better as it would accident waiting to happen.
This was my mare last year 1st picture really over jumped it

2nd picture this year after months of training

 

[Equi]

They potentially compensate for the saddle better then with their seat etc. Youll need an instructor to help you find better balance, and maybe try lots of "half seat" work in trot and canter. No matter how strong/high he gets you need to be able to move with him and respond to how he moves rather than how you think he will move over a jump. Do you use a neck strap? If not try it, even if you dont think you need it, you can grab it and it means you are less likely to let the reins fall through, which will help your balance. As you get better you wont need it. I understand you dont want to yank him in the mouth, but that comes with balance and knowing how to let him get over a jump without letting the reins go using your arms but first you need the balance.

edit to add - take a close look at the rider in the seond photo above, he is giving the rein, but his thumb/finger is still firmly on the rein where he knows he will have the contact when landing, so will quickly and easily gather it up again.

 

[J_sarahd]

I always teach that if the approach is being rushed, circle in front till the horse calms down then approach when horse has relaxed a bit. The over jumping is just training I am afraid, take back to basics with instructor who specialises in jumping ad they get many clients whose horses do this and know how to resolve it. Don't rush to get to x country till he is jumping in the school better as it would accident waiting to happen.
This was my mare last year 1st picture really over jumped it

2nd picture this year after months of training

Ah, okay thank you! He did seem to calm down once I trotted over them all a few times as when I cantered into one of the fences to finish, he popped it really nicely. So it's just a case of jumping him regularly and we will both sort ourselves out, essentially? He's not jumped properly much and he used to be pretty much fired at big 1m+ fences, so I can definitely see why he has these issues!!

Oh no, I definitely won't go to xc before jumping is established at home and away from home!! It's just the 'bigger' dream of this summer and if we aren't ready this summer, then it doesn't really matter. My main goal this summer is to just take him out and canter round a course successfully and with me in control!!

Thank you for the images and proof that they can learn to not overjump! Your mare is absolutely gorgeous!!!

 

[be positive]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to get the stirrups sorted because they're definitely a huge factor into why I rode pretty badly! And yeah, the highest course I will probably ever jump on him is about 90cm, I don't have ambitions to be super competitive with him but just to do stuff here and there for fun. That's exactly what happened: Max knew the course, essentially, and took control and because he's a very strong pony, it was difficult to get that control back.

Do you think it's worth, when training at home, setting up a course and jumping each one individually before then connecting them all together into a course? I think she did that because she wants to make sure I have 100% control before letting us go out and compete. But I think we're very nearly there, I just need to sort my position/balance out a bit first so I don't lose him in between fences!

When training at home I set the fences so thy can be jumped both ways, so you can change which ones relate to the others and with anything too keen they will rarely jump the same fences the same way more than once, I get that she wants you in control it is extremely important but you will not gain control of this type of pony by going round and round the same way, you learn control by doing a few fences that are related then changing where you go so you are guiding him not him knowing where to go, lots of dog legs are useful, jumping on angles anything to make him think and listen to you.

I would not jump each individually in the same order as the course but may do a few out of order or a few backwards to warm up, then round once then a few more out of order and that would probably be enough for one session with a keen pony.

 

[J_sarahd]

When training at home I set the fences so thy can be jumped both ways, so you can change which ones relate to the others and with anything too keen they will rarely jump the same fences the same way more than once, I get that she wants you in control it is extremely important but you will not gain control of this type of pony by going round and round the same way, you learn control by doing a few fences that are related then changing where you go so you are guiding him not him knowing where to go, lots of dog legs are useful, jumping on angles anything to make him think and listen to you.

I would not jump each individually in the same order as the course but may do a few out of order or a few backwards to warm up, then round once then a few more out of order and that would probably be enough for one session with a keen pony.

Ah okay, brilliant. Thank you so much! I'm definitely going to try this out in our next jumping session. I really like my instructor because she's got us this far in a few months (trust me, we were out of control in December), but I completely understand what you're saying and how it relates more to competing!

 

[wkiwi]

Some good exercises for improving the jumping seat include:
rising trot without stirrups; trotting round arena standing in stirrups (without supporting the body by hanging onto the reins); trotting up and down hills in jumping length stirrups (while REALLY concentrating on your lower leg position); riding bareback (without gripping with the knees); bending poles at canter (concentrating on clearly changing your leg aids with each change of direction); shortening your stirrups to 'jockey length' for short periods of canter.
riding up and down hills, and jumping in the arena, with different length reins is also a useful exercise.
You might find william micklem's articles on the safety seat interesting, or google 'eventing safety seat' for more info http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/eventing/william-micklem-the-golden-safety-position-290881
there are many more exercises that benefit the rider too. While it is really good to work on the horse, it is also very important to make sure you can confidently sit on awkward jumps if your horse does them without losing your balance.
PS don't do anything to the point of painful muscles - if it hurts to do something like rising trot without stirrups to start with then just do a short stint and go back to it later. Remember it is fun, not torture

 

[J_sarahd]

Some good exercises for improving the jumping seat include:
rising trot without stirrups; trotting round arena standing in stirrups (without supporting the body by hanging onto the reins); trotting up and down hills in jumping length stirrups (while REALLY concentrating on your lower leg position); riding bareback (without gripping with the knees); bending poles at canter (concentrating on clearly changing your leg aids with each change of direction); shortening your stirrups to 'jockey length' for short periods of canter.
riding up and down hills, and jumping in the arena, with different length reins is also a useful exercise.
You might find william micklem's articles on the safety seat interesting, or google 'eventing safety seat' for more info http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/eventing/william-micklem-the-golden-safety-position-290881
there are many more exercises that benefit the rider too. While it is really good to work on the horse, it is also very important to make sure you can confidently sit on awkward jumps if your horse does them without losing your balance.
PS don't do anything to the point of painful muscles - if it hurts to do something like rising trot without stirrups to start with then just do a short stint and go back to it later. Remember it is fun, not torture

Oh yeah, I definitely need to sort my ability to stay with him during the awkward jumps as then we can practise and we'll both get better. Thank you for the exercises! It's so annoying because when he jumps properly, we actually both jump really well and together, it's just when it takes strides out or jumps a 60cm like it's 90cm because I'm not ready for that!!!

 

[ester]

Your VSD, do you have small triangle blocks for it? Mine has removal blocks and I have GP blocks and triangles, I use the triangles for jumping as I can shorten my stirrups better then (I'm 5'5 and it's only 17").

Also, he's welsh, they are prone to being ridiculous about things. Is he getting high because he is getting close/lacking impulsion once you get there (though granted you shouldn't need much at that height)? I know you say fired into 1m+ fences but although classically not really correct a lot of them do seem to utilise a similar technique. I always found with my own it was a careful balance of which of us was calling the shots . Unfortunately I think I got a better handle on this as he retired. The most amusing thing to do was to put one of my more proper jumping friends on who like to put horses on a stride and he'd look like he was purposely finding different strides for his own entertainment .

I'm not sure the picture's above are a great demonstration as 1) they are more prone to overjump if the fence is small compared to their size, 2) the horse is very close to the second fence, not the couple of human strides away that would be ideal post training.

 

[JFTDWS]

I used to jump in an Ideal VSD and it was utterly evil. I bought a jumping saddle and never looked back. A couple of years after that, I spend a year jumping in a dressage saddle - as high and as technically as I had been in the VSD - and even it was infinitely better than the VSD.

Other things that helped were endless trotting, and virtually all my hacking, in two point and standing up in the stirrups. But I enjoy a bit of pain

 

[J_sarahd]

Your VSD, do you have small triangle blocks for it? Mine has removal blocks and I have GP blocks and triangles, I use the triangles for jumping as I can shorten my stirrups better then (I'm 5'5 and it's only 17").

Also, he's welsh, they are prone to being ridiculous about things. Is he getting high because he is getting close/lacking impulsion once you get there (though granted you shouldn't need much at that height)? I know you say fired into 1m+ fences but although classically not really correct a lot of them do seem to utilise a similar technique. I always found with my own it was a careful balance of which of us was calling the shots . Unfortunately I think I got a better handle on this as he retired. The most amusing thing to do was to put one of my more proper jumping friends on who like to put horses on a stride and he'd look like he was purposely finding different strides for his own entertainment .

I'm not sure the picture's above are a great demonstration as 1) they are more prone to overjump if the fence is small compared to their size, 2) the horse is very close to the second fence, not the couple of human strides away that would be ideal post training.

Yeah we have triangle blocks for it. Max’s owner takes them out when she goes hacking and I always forget to put them back in but I definitely think they’ll help me. And yeah, shortening my stirrups will be a god send hopefully.

He zooms into jumps and takes a few strides out when he over jumps. So when he’s steadier and listening and I can half halt effectively he’s not so bad!!

I would love to get someone else to have a little go on him to see but all the people at my yard are scared of him hahahaha!!

 

[J_sarahd]

I used to jump in an Ideal VSD and it was utterly evil. I bought a jumping saddle and never looked back. A couple of years after that, I spend a year jumping in a dressage saddle - as high and as technically as I had been in the VSD - and even it was infinitely better than the VSD.

Other things that helped were endless trotting, and virtually all my hacking, in two point and standing up in the stirrups. But I enjoy a bit of pain

If it was up to me, I’d have him in a GP. But it’s not my decision unfortunately.

Ooh okay thank you!! I do love doing trot standing up, weirdly enough. Can’t do too much canter in two point because max is very sensitive to the seat and its any excuse to be a little tank with him haha

 

[ester]

Haha see mine is an ideal and I don't hate it for jumping, it's not amazing but fine for what we do and it is sooo comfortable to spend the day in hunting!

 

[J_sarahd]

Haha see mine is an ideal and I don't hate it for jumping, it's not amazing but fine for what we do and it is sooo comfortable to spend the day in hunting!

Yeah! I’m never going to jump him any higher than 1m and I think with the knee blocks that’ll be okay! I’m not planning on affiliating. Just having fun on him haha

Oh man I would love to hunt but max is apparently very dangerous out hunting 😔

 

[JFTDWS]

Haha see mine is an ideal and I don't hate it for jumping, it's not amazing but fine for what we do and it is sooo comfortable to spend the day in hunting!

Mine was a bit different as no velcro knee blocks, so no options, and it really didn't suit me to ride short - leg length is always a huge issue with me - but it was the world's most comfortable hacking saddle for sure.

 

[Bob notacob]

Shorten your stirrups .

 

[J_sarahd]

I jumped Max last night and added an extra hole to my stirrups and it was pretty perfect. He took a huge flier at an upright jumping it way over 1m!! But I didn’t lose him at all. Ready to take him out to a proper course now!