Pony measures out at Eurpean Championships

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Oh dear - but the pony must have been WAY overheight if 151cms was permitted!

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I know.. but still gutting for the family involved. To get that far and then be eliminated - eeeek.. I cant imagine what it even feels like.
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Indeedy!!! Will be interesting to hear the whole story on this one.

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I have texted my friend who is in Freudenburg at the moment to find out if its a showjumping pony, but so far she hasnt replied! (probably jumping the warm up class!)

Karen
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However you must KNOW if your pony is a bit iffy on height!!!! Bound to hear alot of reasons as to why..... It was excited, we didnt know...... etc etc

Gutting but we never had ponies that could be height challenged!
 
How many levels of competition have they been through to get to the European Championships? I presume that all this "pony's" previous wins get negated, unless the owners are going to argue that it just had a sudden growth spurt!
 
151cms will inc shoes, then some ponies may wear pads like my old pony did, these mm's all add up!
The trouble is that there should be a fair measurement system that once a pony has a LHC that is exactly what it is, a Life Height Certificate, one where all ponies get measured with a vet and official from the JMB there, after a certain age and winnings and then if you apply for an FEI passport they should check the LHC before you can get an FEI passport or if necessary remeasure before issuing a pony FEI passport, and it should be uniform across the FEI in every country because it is highly unfair on the child if you have a LHC for your pony and then it gets measured out at a show.
We bought a pony that had been measured out and appealed it the JMB sent and official out to a vet of there choice and the pony comfortably measured in, no we didn't cripple it trimming its feet, we didn't dehydrate it, we just took it along at got it measured, I knew it would otherwise I wouldn't have put £500 where my mouth was, why was it measured out previously! Lord knows! So now the pony in question had a LHC again, so why its 148cms (at 8yos in Ireland) on its first measurement, 149cms (at 9yos) on its second and then at the appeal with an official from the JMB present its 147cms (at 10yos)! I think fitness and occassion all need to be taken into account at shows as well, the measuring system definitly needs an overhaul but uniformed across the FEI that ponies are measured again before competing in FEI competitions and then that measurement sticks.
 
Maybe I should give the FEI some training on measurement systems analysis and measurement uncertainty. I cover calibration, range, accuracy, precision, discrimination, repeatability, reproducability, linearity and stability.

Similar concepts apply to dressage judging (we call it attribute gauge R&R). Agreement within the same judge, agreement between judges, agreement Vs. the standard. The methods that BD use are (statistically) weak.
 
In answer to your previous post the pony's winnings don't get negated they just sit on its record, if it is appealed and remeasured in it will just carry on, if its upgraded to horse classes it actual and nominal totals are transferred and what ever they are in Horse grades thats its grade and if neither, the winnings just sit there on file and the pony doesn't do anything again.
 
I feel so sorry for the person in question.. Almost the same thing happened to me, got down to the final 10 for the pony eventing team about 10 years ago, the pony was almost a dead cert to go to the Europeans as he was so reliable jumping, then we discovered his Life Height Certificate was not compatible with FEI rules (our fault for not checking you might say, but when we bought him we hadn't planned to do Ponies...), so had to get him remeasured. He was 3cm over height and we couldn't get him under, so had to withdraw from selection, it was absolutely gutting, especially as my friends who went to the Europeans came back saying they were all 15hh anyway...
To be honest I can't decide if this new rule makes things fairer or not
 
Surely if a pony has a LHC that should be unchallengable but vets should be very cautious and utterly realistic at the initial measurements? This £500 down and you can have someone else's pony re-measured, although it might not happen very often, is highly unfair in my view. A month (or whatever timescale the re-measurement takes place in) doesn't give time for a pony to be "let down" which all agree makes a difference in some cases. I feel similarly that re-measuring winners at HOYS etc is unreasonable. If you buy a pony with a LHC it should be just that - life.
 
The problem is some people do abuse it and then it is cheating. I know of a vet that used to do JMB measuring and got kicked off the panel - because when you took the pony to be measured - the question was asked "What height do you want?"

Mine when she was done, was measured right next to an MOD airfield right under the take of and landing path for jets - hmmmm, thats a nice place to keep them calm and not let them be on their toes!
 
I totally agree Weezy, when I had the crazy pony measured, loads of people said she would no way get 148, which she did, and then I took her jump as a 148 and everything was at least 2 inches bigger! May be we should scrap the LHC and have an bi-annual one instead? Which could not be challenged, as I think it is all getting seriously litigious(sp)? now, probably because of the amount of money spent on the job?
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I suspect that if all ponies were measured regularly there would be loads of complaints about not being able to let them down, complaints about shows thus missed and revenue for centres lost, established and valuable ponies measuring out, litigation etc etc.

Seems simplest to me to have a LHC meaning life but these issued perhaps under stricter conditions? If I'd spent 10's of £1,000s of pounds on a pony with a LHC (dream on!) in good faith I'd want to take it further if it subsequently measured out.

And you can't always tell when you buy a pony if it is over height and I speak as someone who bought an irish pony who was measured out by the JMB by 0.6mls as they are now being strict. Dissappointed as I was I quite understood and agreed with their reasons for being so strict.
 
But would it not be a good idea to measure the pony when you went to try it. Now that they are becoming stricter it would make much more sense than to loose all your money just because you trusted a LHC which may have been given before the pony stops growing.
 
Did you notice that they said there were 148 ponies from 17 nations. Do you they were told that they were measuring the 148 CM ponies from 17 nations rather than 148 ponies at 148cms from 17 nations. Or is it just a peculiar coincidence.
 
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But would it not be a good idea to measure the pony when you went to try it. Now that they are becoming stricter it would make much more sense than to loose all your money just because you trusted a LHC which may have been given before the pony stops growing.

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If you could confidently measure a pony to within 6mms, allowing for condition, length of feet and shoe wear then you're a better man than me!
 
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Did you notice that they said there were 148 ponies from 17 nations. Do you they were told that they were measuring the 148 CM ponies from 17 nations rather than 148 ponies at 148cms from 17 nations. Or is it just a peculiar coincidence.

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Am I tired or is that really confusing????????
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