Pony sets his neck, please help! (also in NL)

[nemo_]

When my pony gets excited, he jogs and sets his neck. He has quite a big neck and actually carries himself very nicely but when out hunting, he uses is to his advantage, sets his neck and I can't stop! He will go really nicely in his french link loose ring snaffle for flatwork and waterford snaffle for sj/xc with no problem at all. I hunt him in a grackle (his normal noseband) and a waterford dutch gag with 2 reins, one on the bottom ring, one on the snaffle. He also has a tendency to get on the forehand, and occasionally lean hence the waterford, so I put him a in gag thinking it would help lift him up but as soon as i use the bottom rein, even lightly, he drops his head and leans on my hands. This means I usually end up pulling on the snaffle rein to stop, which I don't like and especially since there's more jumping now I want to be able to get him back to me. What can I do? I'm not sure schooling will really help as it's only a problem hunting and he goes very nicely most of the time. I'm pretty sure he's not happy with the gag. Teeth, back and saddle fine. Any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[Kelpie]

when you say he sets his neck - how badly are we talking here? - so, for example, can you get any sort of bend at all if you try and just take one rein and bend him to that?

One of mine is difficult out hunting. An absolute joy to ride in competition, even not strong XC, but hunting just blew his mind. I did the whole looking at different bits thing and one of the best bits of advice I got (from one of the hunts masters actually...) was that for this particular horse, it really wasn't about what bit of metal I had in his mouth, it was about his state of mind. The whole big group stuff just blew his mind. I had to work on really building up to the big group stuf slowly - go out with friends/ do pleasure rides in big groups, then go out on hunting days when you knew there would only be a very small field, etc, etc. That helped a lot, tho even so I now have to really pick the hunts I do on him and avoid big days.

 

[nemo_]

when you say he sets his neck - how badly are we talking here? - so, for example, can you get any sort of bend at all if you try and just take one rein and bend him to that?QUOTE]

When he gets joggy, out hunting or otherwise, I can't get a bend at all. When he does it whilst trotting I can get him to bend. That's interesting about your horse, mine is normally sensible out hunting and the big group doesn't wind him up. I just think it's a bit of a vicious circle as I need the gag to stop, but I think the pressure it too much so he sets against it.

 

[Kelpie]

sounds like probably your guy's not as bad as mine out huntin then

Maybe instead of going for a bit that has poll pressure, you could think about getting one that would help you to bend his neck side to side, to stop him setting it? So a fulmer, for example?

 

[Sun]

You need to ditch the Gag, by design they lower the horse's head. Personally, I would try a Double bridle, that way you can use a french link bridoon, and use the curb when he is trying to set his head down. You could try the french link with a a long shanked Curb and a leather curb.

 

[nemo_]

Haha Kelpie maybe he isn't I jump him in a full cheek waterford, but for hunting I try to ride mainly off the snaffle on the gag which would be to a similar effect but I just feel like i'm pulling too much.
Sun- Thank you. I've tried him in a double before with not much success but I do agree and think it's time to get rid of the gag. I've always been told dutch gags help "lift" them up, which I've never understood and I remember there being a big debate on here about the action of it.
Do you think a cheltenham gag might help?

 

[Kelpie]

yeah, I've never understood why some people think that gags have a "lifting" action either. Maybe more chance with a pelham/ action of the curb chain?

Just throwing an idea out, though - when he sets against you, is there any chance that you then end up in a dead pull against him? Maybe try a series of short sharp tugs on one rein .... more difficult for a horse to set against that then it is for them to set against a dead pull.... (you may be doing that anyway, of course, and it still doesn't work - haha, with my guy who looses his mind in big hunts, I had only limited success doing that - but limited success was still better than no success!)

 

[nemo_]

Hmm gags confuse me everyone seems to have different ideas about them!
I tug but doesn't seem to help alot, I will just have to keep trying. He's not unstoppable but I want to be able to get him back to me more before I jump as I wouldn't feel so safe jumping him how he is at the moment!