Pony with Liver Damage * Help * (long post)

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No1_in_particular

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My 23 year old pony has been diagnosed with liver failure.. his only symptom of this is weight loss. He has always been a fussy eater but was normally a good doer until approximately 8 - 10 weeks ago. His weight has dropped off him dramatically and I had the vet out 3 weeks ago to do teeth and take blood...... this is how they have diagnosed the liver failure.
Vet says if he was a human he'd be on the list for a transplant it's so bad. also advised to keep him on a low potein, hi energy feed and not to feed alfalfa..... They suggested that there were herbal items on the market but that they don't work ...I don't have a clue what to do now...... i've read so much on vitamin b injections, milk thistle (I've been using this for 3 weeks now)
I just feel there should be more I can do...... although he's a fussy eater he is eating.... but I don't know if I'm feeding him the correct feed.... sugar beet, course mix, bruised barley and just grass, lots of good quality hay and he's out in the field.... he's getting a multi vit and milk thistle every day also.
Does anyone out there have any info / advice they could give me?
 
Hi nip - so sorry your ponio has had this diagnosis. I took on a rescued mare 2 years ago, who was very close to death from liver failure. In her case, the liver failure was due to ragwort poisoning, which is the most common reason for it. Other causes of liver damage can be from an infection or cancer. The problem with liver damage is that the liver can keep functioning when as much as 70% is damaged. You only start to see the signs over that level. But if the damage is much higher, it is fatal. Livers damaged by infection can regenerate but if it is due to ragwort poisoning they can't. And clearly tumours in the liver are likely to be fatal too.

Ragwort poisoning is a cumulative problem, so your pony may not have eaten ragwort all the time he has been with you but he may have eaten it earlier and the permanent damage is done. I pulled my mare back from the brink with expert veterinary care and the guidance of Professor Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University who is a world expert. Liver damaged horses need low protein diets, but the protein they DO have (all animals need some) must be the best quality you can afford. They should never, ever, under any circumstances have oil or any conditioning supplements as they contain high levels of oil. Milk thistle is known to support the liver and Yea Sac will aid hind gut digestion which is compromised in liver damaged horses. In addition, horses should be stabled in sunny summer weather as their livers can no longer break down the plant compounds they eat which means they suffer terrible sunburn. If your pony is pink skinned on the muzzle, you will probably have already seen terrible sunburn.

My mare's liver function has now been stabilised and she has enough remaining healthy liver to be fit as a flea and with full veterinary cover. This is partly due to her age (12) and partly due to her being a hard-as-nails gipsy cob - different aged/breeds of horses may not do so well. The only certain way to know if the liver damage is due to ragwort is to do a biopsy but this is a highly invasive procedure.

This bit is hard to say hun but the symptoms of liver failure include loss of weight, loss of appetite, lethargy, loss of interest in life, jaundice (yellowing round pink mucus membranes), swollen bellies from fluid retention, standing in corners pressing the head against a wall, highly abnormal behaviours, blindness, self harm and (occasionally) harm to owners as the brain is clogged with toxins. If a horse or pony reaches this stage, sadly there is only one outcome and it is far kinder to put the horse or pony to sleep with dignity and compassion before the terrible end-stage symptoms start.

I'm so sorry hun but if your ponio is 23 and your vets have already explained that the disease has irreversibly progressed to the stage where only a liver transplant can save your ned, you may need to make a very fast and very brave decision. I'm so, so sorry hun. PM me if you need any more info xxxxx
 
I'd agree entirely with the post above. Our old TB got very poorly with liver failure last winter - went from OK to emaciated in about 3 weeks, and of course before diagnosis we were upping feed, feeding oil, all the normal things you'd do to put weight on a horse but in this case it was completely the wrong thing to do and may have even been making him worse.

Our old guy had had previous exposure to ragwort, and he'd been neglected in the past, but as the previous poster says they can live with the majority of their liver not functioning. However, when you add to that normal age related deterioration in liver function, it can then push them over the edge. It's why ragwort is so dangerous - it stores up problems for later in life.

We immediately put our guy on a low protein diet, lots of fibre, and no grains or oils. We also contacted Trinity Consultants who'd come highly recommended, and they did up a supplement for him. http://www.justbespoke.com/ I'd also recommend Allen & Page Fast Fibre or similar - full of fibre and relatively low protein.

We weren't expecting miracles this winter, but we got one. The vet said that he'd find the winters hard, but we went in prepared with our feeding regime and supplements. He's needed a lot of food and TLC but he's done OK - in rude health and the blood test that we had done at the end of winter showed that his liver enzymes were back within normal parameters again. It really brought a lump to the throat watching him blast around the field when we brought him up to his summer grazing, as that time the previous year he'd been so sick. He's not cured, as they cannot be cured, it just means that the bit of his liver that is working is doing well enough keep him functioning.

As to the future, who knows, but at the moment our old guy is back where he belongs at the top of the field hierarchy (and don't you forget it!) and we will play it by ear.

Good luck and all the best.
 
If he's eating, he is happy out in the field, and is not in pain then I would just play it by ear and see how it goes, but one of the previous posters is right in the fact that you may have to keep in mind that you will have to make a brave decision the second he deterioates. Good luck, thinking of you x
 
i have 2 rescued bretons, bought at 18 mths & both due for the italian meat trip.
when they arrived they were grossly over weight, the vet here in france said to expect problems as it was very common for farmers to feed a beef cow like rapid weight gain feed to horses expected to go for meat, which may include the wrong suppliments and trace elements -

this diet overloads the liver.

with a few weeks of 'normal' horse food they looked terrible, the weight loss was astounding, if i could have patented it weight watchers would have bought it.

they eventually stablised, but the following summer it all went wrong.........

when you have 7000m2 of virgin grazing between just two 2 year olds, just for summer with fetlock high grass & you still feed 2 kilo each a day & they are still dropping weight...you know its not good

blood tests confirmed liver damage/inflamation, but also confirmed no blood parasites and no infection and no worms either, that just leaves toxins to blame.

they went on to a low sugar, easy digest diet, with lots of good hay, and a herbal suppliment that cost a bomb and i don't think did much, & we waited, the vets opinion was youth was their only advantage and a slim one at that.

almost a year on, 1 breton has been passed as fit to start his training/backing but the other is still weaker and we will wait a while longer, but both are well below breed height, a normal breton should be 15 -16 ish my boys are 14.2 & 13.2 ish,

don't give up untill you have to, and if you have to be comforted by knowing you did your best, right to the end, making the decision to PTS is better than leaving death to nature and letting them suffer which is the cowards way out some owners take, fingers crossed for you either way, bye
 
Only one thing I'd add to the above is see if you can find a good homeopath. I remember reading an article somewhere about a similar case and a homeopathic remedy made a huge difference. I'm not meaning the ones you can buy in boots, but the high potency ones only available from a trained practitioner. I have been on the receiving end of homeopathic treatment myself when things the Dr prescribed me failed and it definately does work. It is also inexpensive. Milk thistle is also very very good.
 
Thanks everybody, had Max pts this morning..... He was still bright and enjoyed the sunshine this morning but he was unable to swallow his new hay.... and i knew before long he wouldn't be able to enjoy his carrots and apples and feed.... I couldn't live with myself if he was strugling so i called the vet out....... it was all very peaceful and I don't regret anything in his life...... he has owned me for the best 15 years I could have hoped for and I have millions of great memories of him......
thanks for all your help...
Jxxxx
RIP Max xxxxx
 
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