PONY WITH SUDDEN ONSET BREATHING ISSUES RELATED TO LIVER FUNCTION

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kingslane

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Hi, first post for a long time and a new name!
So cutting a long story as short as possible...fit and healthy 11 year old 11.2 pony never had a days illness for 8 years very dramatically develops severe breathing problems...literally fine 1 hour, fighting for life the next with bi-lateral paralyzed layrnx...vets tubed and gave oxygen and eventually breathing stabalised but only with the tube in (no oxygen) and no movement, the minute he moved started struggling again. Blood tests took nothing obvious (vets words) and prognosis was permanent nerve damage and PTS. Travelled to the vets to say our goodbyes to be greeted by a neighing pony stomping about to get out and breathing 100% normal, scoped again and layrnx was back to normal! Vets actually said it was very strange and the only thing they could pin it down to was a bee sting which I must admit did ring true as there was a mark that could have been a sting on his layrnx and we had a lot of bees about at the time. Came home fit as a fiddle bossing the herd about and no signs of illness...infact he was perkier than normal! This was beginning of August.
Fast forward to Dec the 13th...breathing issues started again and another emergency trip to the vets. This time we knew it wasnt a bee sting so we had another look at the blood results from the previous episode...it had shown a SLIGHT rise in liver enzymes but at the time no one considered it could be related...we know now different which quite frankly pisses me off but thats another story!
So my question is do these results show any hope at all...these are the 3rd lot he had in the space of 6 days and there was enough improvement in them to let him come home and apart from anything he was driving them mad neighing at everyone and was abit of a handful lol...I would love to tell you what the previous results (hes had 4 lots done) were but despite numerous phone calls and emails ive never had a copy of them...hence why we are looking at changing vets.
ALP 31, ASTad 1329, AST69, BILE 36, CK585, GGT142, GLUC6.1, LDH 520, MAG0.73, TBIL49, TP78, UREA 21., GLOB47, GLDH 14, CREA18
Sorry for the long post but felt all the info was relevant in getting the bigger picture...also worth pointing out this pony has none of the signs of liver problems apart from the sudden onset breathing issues and has been with us 8 years.
Any first hand experiences of this sort of thing would be great, TY
 
Im just heading out to do ponies but will come back to this when I get back, I can tell you mines blood results for liver markers. He didn’t have breathing issues mind you.
 
I have a mini who has an irregular collapsing trachea, it gets exacerbated if she gets too fat or excited. Literally fighting for breath and once setting off a stress induced colic. Despite bloods being run etc, there was no other answer.
Several times I've thought I'd be waving her off for good (vet agreed too!) each time she's bounced back. Is 10 yrs this time and otherwise in very rude health!

Hope you get to the bottom of it!
 
It is def being caused by the poor liver function...it is one of the lesser known symptoms and 9 times out of 10 with smaller ponies that have bi-lateral paryalysed larynx its down to liver damage...and comes on very suddenly. The fact it comes on so suddenly and then appears to resolve itself...to a degree is all very strange! Looking at him you would never know he isnt just a typical perky naughty little pony.
 
Crikey, sounds very serious. Well done for speedy actions.

It sounds like severe anaphylactic shock episodes. Like the first time, bee sting. Liver enzymes will be raised as it deals with trying to conjunct enzymes to help with the ‘foreign’ poison immune system effects, in this case a bee sting.

December bees are rare yet i did find some late ones hibernating in early december in some bunches of herbs i had hung up to dry in my porch. It was evidently too cold for them outside, so they took shelter. When i disturbed them to use the herbs, they attacked me!

Has your pony experienced similar maybe in his stable? Bees will burrow in bedding to keep warm, or even snuggle as a group under a rug stored in the stable? I also had some just before xmas hiding under haylage bags in my hay shelter that also attacked me when i moved the bags. They seem to be particularly vicious when in this pre-cold state than during summer when they dont bother anyone.

If not bees, what else does he have access to that is a potential poison/allergy? Lots of acorns? Yew trees? Rhododendron/laurel/ferns/ivy berries are out now?

Other fast-acting neurological damage is botulism, but there would be more symptoms of him being wobbly, not being able to walk, stand, sweating, the vets should spot that a mile off. Horses are extremely poorly with that, many dont survive and perk up like your pony has.

I hope someone comments on your liver numbers. I thought id throw out possible causes to help you find cause and prevent it happening again.
Hope he gets well soon :)
 
Not breathing but re. liver stuff coming on suddenly, one day fine, one day this in october, soon resolved.
14590270_10157693055335438_2447297425108017825_n.jpg

And there have been times when he has had worse blood results and no photosensitisation. He's worn a cover since this episode (2016) but vet said it wouldn't likely make too much difference if he did have an episode.

He's also been on bute for 18 months with no reccurence. So I've concluded livers often don't make much sense :p
 
We have 100% def ruled out anaphylactic shock though it SORT OF match's the bloods showed otherwise, hes not stabled and hasnt got access to anything that would bring it on so quickly...im thinking it could be bile duct related...possibly blocked or partially blocked but quite honestly the vets havent been very pro active with this. They were meant to be doing a scan on the wed (episode happened the day before) but they didnt have time! so we are still in the dark really...the best they could suggest is if it happens again they'll try and scan him straight away and hes having blood tests every 2 weeks. Last test was done Friday, they have the results but wont release them to me as vets are too busy to look at them!
 
Melody Grey said:
I'm sure you've thought of it, but allergy testing in case it's something easy to eradicate?
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Yeah we tested for that and its nothing allergy based...really difficult to pinpoint...could be a multitude of things, and it appears lots of the time these never get a 100% def cause. It seems to be more difficult to pinpoint as it comes on so quickly and he appears to recover very quickly aswell. The breathing issues are really very dramatic, imagine a badly winded horse and times it by 10.
My main concern is getting him through the next few months and avoiding anymore episodes...talking to the vet seems to be akin to an audience with the pope so Im still unsure how bad the last lot of results from a fortnight ago actually are...are they survivable or not?
We are watching him 24/7 and other than the odd hour where you think is he snoozing or is he depressed he is acting exactly as you would want, eating, drinking, weeing and pooping as normal, no loss of weight or signs of jaundice etc
 
So I will preface this by saying I am not a vet, and have absolutely no knowledge of respiratory issues or paralysed larynx caused by liver issues. I went through a period where out of the 6 horses kept between four owners, one died suddenly of acute liver failure. She had no signs at all other than itchy legs, until one night she walked into her stable, started fitting standing up, then collapsed and was fitting, pretty much galloping at top speed whilst lying on her side on the floor until a vet was able to put her to sleep. This triggered us to test the rest. All 5 others had elevated liver markers. I can only speak for my pony BBP as knowing his results, so will show you them below, next to your results. I've just written your result, the reference range my vets use and the units (there is the potential that vets use different units so use caution in comparisons), and BBPs results. He had 17 blood tests over 2 years, so I've just picked what I could find. I'm probably not adding anything new at all to what you know, except that there is definitely hope with those blood results!

There is also a good reference document here: https://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Investigating-Liver-Disease.pdf (I assume its good, i'm not a vet!)

ALP - yours is 31, my vet uses ref range 153-311 IU/L so this seems low (BBP was 108 so below normal but not as low as your reading), apparently low levels can be linked to deficiencies in the diet.

ASTad - 1329 AST - 69 Im not sure the difference in these? I only got AST back for which my vets use ref range 183-497 IU/L, this marker is not specific for liver but also reflects damage to skeletal or cardiac muscle or red blood cells. BBP was at 931 for AST.

CK - 585. (ref range 113-333 IU/L) BBP was 568. This is also not specific to liver but to muscle damage/injury.

Bile - 36. My vets use ref range 0-22.5 umol/L and mine was within normal ranges at 15. It is a measure of liver function, so high levels can indicate there is a loss of function. My friends horse had bile of approx 30 which they believed was an infected bile duct, he had a couple of liver biopsies and was treated with prolonged antibiotics and liver support and is now absolutely fine.

T. Bil 78 - (ref range 0-34). BBP was 20.9. This can also be high if the horse hasn't been eating.

Total Protein - 78 (ref range 55-75 g/L) BBP was 68.

Urea 21 - (ref range 3.3 - 6.7). BBP was 5.9. This can be high if the horse is fasting

Globulin - 47 (ref range 18-55g/L). BBP was 32.

GLDH 14 (ref range 2.7-14.1 IU/L) - BBP 146. This is a useful marker for ongoing liver disease as it is quite reactive going up quickly with acute liver disease and improving quickly after any liver issue.

Creatine 18 (reference range 77-145 umol/L). BBP was 107.

GLUC / LCH / MAG - I don't have a comparison.

GGT - 142 (ref range 0-50 IU/L). BBP was 600 i think. The document I linked to says concentrations in excess of 400 are linked to poor prognosis but BBP is still live and kicking 5 years later!

So there are a few interesting bits in yours that *could* be linked to diet/intake - the low ALP, raised T Bil and Urea - at any point before blood testing had he not been eating?

The raised AST/CK are also markers for muscle myopathies and muscle or cardiac injury, so are hard to read a lot from unless you have other information.

The GGT, GLDH and Bile are liver specific markers. Your GLDH is normal which is a good thing, but GGT is a bit raised and can indicate a level of liver damage, or even overtraining. Low GLDH but high GGT, bile and Bilerubin possibly points more towards inflammation of the biliary tract than damage to the actual cells of the liver, does he have discoloured urine at all?

I really hope you get to the bottom of it all, livers are remarkable things and don't always do what you think they should. BBP had high GGT, GLDH, AST but 6 years after it all began he is still going strong. He had rest and milk thistle and no other treatment, but unlike yours did not show any significant symptoms. Good luck.
 
BBP said:
So I will preface this by saying I am not a vet, and have absolutely no knowledge of respiratory issues or paralysed larynx caused by liver issues. I went through a period where out of the 6 horses kept between four owners, one died suddenly of acute liver failure. She had no signs at all other than itchy legs, until one night she walked into her stable, started fitting standing up, then collapsed and was fitting, pretty much galloping at top speed whilst lying on her side on the floor until a vet was able to put her to sleep. This triggered us to test the rest. All 5 others had elevated liver markers. I can only speak for my pony BBP as knowing his results, so will show you them below, next to your results. I've just written your result, the reference range my vets use and the units (there is the potential that vets use different units so use caution in comparisons), and BBPs results. He had 17 blood tests over 2 years, so I've just picked what I could find. I'm probably not adding anything new at all to what you know, except that there is definitely hope with those blood results!

There is also a good reference document here: https://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Investigating-Liver-Disease.pdf (I assume its good, i'm not a vet!)

ALP - yours is 31, my vet uses ref range 153-311 IU/L so this seems low (BBP was 108 so below normal but not as low as your reading), apparently low levels can be linked to deficiencies in the diet.

ASTad - 1329 AST - 69 Im not sure the difference in these? I only got AST back for which my vets use ref range 183-497 IU/L, this marker is not specific for liver but also reflects damage to skeletal or cardiac muscle or red blood cells. BBP was at 931 for AST.

CK - 585. (ref range 113-333 IU/L) BBP was 568. This is also not specific to liver but to muscle damage/injury.

Bile - 36. My vets use ref range 0-22.5 umol/L and mine was within normal ranges at 15. It is a measure of liver function, so high levels can indicate there is a loss of function. My friends horse had bile of approx 30 which they believed was an infected bile duct, he had a couple of liver biopsies and was treated with prolonged antibiotics and liver support and is now absolutely fine.

T. Bil 78 - (ref range 0-34). BBP was 20.9. This can also be high if the horse hasn't been eating.

Total Protein - 78 (ref range 55-75 g/L) BBP was 68.

Urea 21 - (ref range 3.3 - 6.7). BBP was 5.9. This can be high if the horse is fasting

Globulin - 47 (ref range 18-55g/L). BBP was 32.

GLDH 14 (ref range 2.7-14.1 IU/L) - BBP 146. This is a useful marker for ongoing liver disease as it is quite reactive going up quickly with acute liver disease and improving quickly after any liver issue.

Creatine 18 (reference range 77-145 umol/L). BBP was 107.

GLUC / LCH / MAG - I don't have a comparison.

GGT - 142 (ref range 0-50 IU/L). BBP was 600 i think. The document I linked to says concentrations in excess of 400 are linked to poor prognosis but BBP is still live and kicking 5 years later!

So there are a few interesting bits in yours that *could* be linked to diet/intake - the low ALP, raised T Bil and Urea - at any point before blood testing had he not been eating?

The raised AST/CK are also markers for muscle myopathies and muscle or cardiac injury, so are hard to read a lot from unless you have other information.

The GGT, GLDH and Bile are liver specific markers. Your GLDH is normal which is a good thing, but GGT is a bit raised and can indicate a level of liver damage, or even overtraining. Low GLDH but high GGT, bile and Bilerubin possibly points more towards inflammation of the biliary tract than damage to the actual cells of the liver, does he have discoloured urine at all?

I really hope you get to the bottom of it all, livers are remarkable things and don't always do what you think they should. BBP had high GGT, GLDH, AST but 6 years after it all began he is still going strong. He had rest and milk thistle and no other treatment, but unlike yours did not show any significant symptoms. Good luck.
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Thankyou for your input...the muscle related results are more than likely down to the hauling in of every muscle he had trying to breath,,,it really is horrific to witness and these results were taken after 3 days being at the vets getting quite wound up and sulking abit tbh! The first episode was in the summer when he had plenty of grass, the second episode was middle of Dec when he was on hay...I do wonder with hindsight if he was maybe abit off colour for a few days (2 max) before each episode, nothing dramatic but POSSIBLY slightly off. I have been looking at his pee! and i cant say it looks any different, it may possibly be a little more yellow but nothing dramatic to show. One thing we did wonder is if his bile duct was slightly blocked would all the muscle relaxants, pain killers etc help release it a little bit...explaining the dramatic recovery? He isnt on antibiotics which bothers me tbh as to my mind we should be eliminating any chance of further damage. He is on restore though which he loves!
 
also to clarify urea is 2.1 not 21 so is actually low...i literally have no idea what that indicates but my gut tells me bile related again...I did ask the vet on the phone (never seen him in real life) if he thought it was bile duct related and he thought not but couldnt really say why...tbh the more i re read my posts the more i realise i need to change vets!
 
kingslane said:
Yeah we tested for that and its nothing allergy based...really difficult to pinpoint...could be a multitude of things, and it appears lots of the time these never get a 100% def cause. It seems to be more difficult to pinpoint as it comes on so quickly and he appears to recover very quickly aswell. The breathing issues are really very dramatic, imagine a badly winded horse and times it by 10.
My main concern is getting him through the next few months and avoiding anymore episodes...talking to the vet seems to be akin to an audience with the pope so Im still unsure how bad the last lot of results from a fortnight ago actually are...are they survivable or not?
We are watching him 24/7 and other than the odd hour where you think is he snoozing or is he depressed he is acting exactly as you would want, eating, drinking, weeing and pooping as normal, no loss of weight or signs of jaundice etc
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Your vets sound very frustrating to deal with. If theyre too busy to do ‘vet work’ and do scans and give results in a timely manner they should be turning down cases or employing more staff. No wonder youre thinking of finding another vet.

Something else liver and gallbladder/duct related i thought of that affects cows, deer, goats, sheep....but not much has been said in the equine world is ‘liver flukes’ parasites.
They are flat, oval parasites of a fair length around 2 inches max that live in the ducts of the liver and in the chambers between gallbladder and liver, and can therefore inhibit bile flow, inhibit liver function if numbers are many/and or if they are displaced/moving around.

They are soil borne, transmit to snails for incubation who release eggs into soil, where grazing animals pick them up....they can also infect humans.
They are more prevalent on wetter/damp grazing lands, ponds, streams, rather than sandy drier grassland.

Here in ireland it was thought not to be an issue and never treated for until the universities tested various regional cattle herds to find fluke numbers alarmingly high enough for the agri dept. to encourage farmers to drench their animals for fluke parasites annually aswell as the usual parasites.

I will look into latest equine research on this parasite and will update, but has the pony had these episodes within a couple of weeks after being wormed? Im wondering if wormers we already use on horses are effective against flukes, or perhaps the wormers are slightly toxic to them to disturb them enough so they begin to move within the ducts and inhibit bile flow/liver function temporarily?
An mri scan should see flukes in the liver and gallbladder ducts but im dont know if other scans are sensitive enougn.
Worth asking vet?
 
I just found this article detailing a study done on uk and irish horses for liver fluke disease, showing an etiology between liver disease and fluke infestation:

https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2019/07/26/liver-flukes-britain-horses/

How this would cause larynx paralysis i dont know, except from an extreme immune/neurological pathway signalling from
Cause X.
Can a sudden liver issue caused by parasites/flukes or pasture/hay poison/bee stings, trigger the immune system, which over-triggers the sympathetic nervous system into paralysis, hence you describe when he stayed still he gained breathing but when he moved he struggled to breathe. We cant physically fight a nervous system response. The para-sympathetic NS is relaxing, and sympathetic NS is blood rushing to muscles, promoting flight, paralyzing digestion and other autonomous functions, but in your pony it sounds like this function over-functions and paralyzes his larynx.
Like humans with asthma attacks, more prone to attacks when they get nervous or overly excited, due to sympathetic nervous system response ‘over’ functioning inhibiting/reducing severely autonomous nervous system breathing apparatus.

I dont have asthma, but recall when young having to present an assembly at school, i was so nervous, i stood up there completely wide-eyed, unable to talk because i couldnt breathe. It shocked me. I ran out!! I could run fine, thanks to sympathetic nervous system in over-drive!

It would be interesting to know what his blood pressure and heart rate was during these episodes, as they are directly linked to the NS and can give vital clues to the abnormal functioning.

The pituitary(pea in brain) and adrenal glands (kidney) regulate nervous system response. Enlargement of pituitary is common, creating excess hormone release NS response and downstream body symptoms.
Testing these regions via hormone tests could be illuminating if liver disease/toxicity/parasite has been fully ruled out.
 
I don't know anyone who has gone to the expense of an MRI to test for fluke, they have been treated off-label. The currently used horse wormers are not effective against fluke. I think fenbenzadole has some limited effect (v. closely related to Albendazole which is used).

They usually generate chronic effects, not the acute ones the OP is experiencing though.

OP do you have any others grazing the same land? Not conclusive but at least somewhat indicative as to what might be the cause if only one or many are affected via their bloods.
 
Ty for all the info...yes they are very frustrating...3 days later still waiting results of last test...they have them but havent the inclination to either look at them or read them out to me! He has been tested for liver fluke, our pastures are wet and we have goats...guess what 3 weeks later still waiting for results! The paralysed layrnx is a known but rare indicator of acute liver issues (ie sudden onset) as toxins build up. His heart, kidneys, lungs are all 100% ok but not sure what his heart rate was during the episode as it wasnt taken and tbh he was on the verge of keeling over so it was more important to get him through that...my son had to travel in the lorry with him to stop him going down.
 
ester said:
I don't know anyone who has gone to the expense of an MRI to test for fluke, they have been treated off-label. The currently used horse wormers are not effective against fluke. I think fenbenzadole has some limited effect (v. closely related to Albendazole which is used).

They usually generate chronic effects, not the acute ones the OP is experiencing though.

OP do you have any others grazing the same land? Not conclusive but at least somewhat indicative as to what might be the cause if only one or many are affected via their bloods.
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There is a test for liver fluke which he has had, yes 3 others all on same land and management with no issues. We've had this pony 8 years with not one day of illness or feeling sorry. Apart from the sudden onset breathing issues there is no indicator he is anything other than 100% well until you look at his bloods.
 
Worth checking, I know you can get an ideal from FEC too as you see them floating. I didnt' test because they timings from when we've had sheep on the field didn't work out.

I ask because I've known a few incidences where only one horse has been showing any symptoms but there has actually been a paddock wide issue when bloods taken from all. (The main one I know about was fungal growth/toxin issue).
 
So got results from Friday and everything is either coming down if it needed to or going up if it needed to...apart from bile which has gone from 36 back upto 67...it was 58 and 65 on previous tests...surely he needs to be on antibiotics for infection of the bile tract? Also a test they havent done before for chol shows it to be low at 0.3, it should be between 2.3 and 3.5? Red, white and platelets bloods are showing as normal apart from WHITE BLOOD CELLS LY which is mod low, RED BLOOD CELLS MCV which is mild high, MCHC which is mild low...i was really hoping the bile results would show improvement but will be talking to a vet at some point today fingers crossed!
 
Unfortunately you really need the reference ranges to be able to interpret those results properly, and also the previous results to be able to compare. For example, the ranges for the lab where I work has AST and ALP in the low-mid 100's; so either they are low or the reference range is very different. Likewise GGT at 142 would be mild-moderately increased with most ref ranges I use. GGT is generally associated with cholestasis (ie bile duct) and AST associated with the liver tissue itself. Unless the reference range sits low, a GGT of 142 wouldn't usually make me think biliary problem.

Assuming that bile is bile acids, that is a marker of liver function. Again, you need the reference range to interpret it, but if it is going up above normal that would concern me. It doesn't necessarily indicate an infection, bile acids will go up with any disease where liver function is compromised, e.g ragwort toxicity, bile stones.

The MCV, MCHC can be ignored, they are just red blood cell markers. Likewise I would probably ignore the cholesterol too.

Basically, he has liver disease, which if things aren't improving needs investigating. I think your plan to talk to vet today is a good one. A lot of liver enzymes (especially GGT) can be slow to return to normal, and for horses that don't have symptoms I often recommend just rechecking bloods once a month, however the fact that he is showing signs (laryngeal paralysis) means I would probably be more proactive about investigating, and consider liver ultrasound and probably liver biopsy, which depending on your vet's facilities might require referral to a hospital. In the meantime, treatment with milk thistle , S-adenosylmethionine (e.g. denamarin), vitamin E. Usually the only disease that needs antibiotics is cholangiohepatitis, which a) normally makes them colicky, have fevers etc and b) I would expect GGT to be very high, so seems less likely. unfortunately ragwort toxicity is always top of my list in liver cases I see. Diet wise you want to avoid anything high in protein - the classic liver disease diet is actually sugar beet and corn, and you want to avoid alfalfa.
 
I do have the reference ranges, they come with the results. All his results have improved APART from BILE. He is on hay and water no feeds and has always been done like this...obviously grass in spring, summer, autumn. Weve had him 8 years and he hasnt had access to ragwort. He was booked in for a scan the day after he was admitted but they didnt have time to do it and by the time they did he was very perky and they didnt think it was worth doing as it probably wouldnt show anything...also they are reluctant to do biopsy as its very hit and miss, vets words not mine. His GGT is currently 136 with a ref range between 10 and 45.
 
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ester said:
I ask because I've known a few incidences where only one horse has been showing any symptoms but there has actually been a paddock wide issue when bloods taken from all. (The main one I know about was fungal growth/toxin issue).
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Came to say this! One horse showing major symptoms, liver results came back dodgy, so rest of the yard tested and most of them were also effected but showing no signs at all. This was due to toxins in the hay supply. If you haven't already it might be worth getting your forage tested, especially if your hay is always from the same supplier. Bizarrely some horses than shared the same forage/ fields etc with the effected horses had totally normal results!
 
We will be looking at getting his hay tested...we do generally get it from the same place but he wasnt on hay in August when it first happened so its not top of the list atm, the others will be getting tested next time he does in a fortnight. They are all event horses, he is there companion pony. Would be lovely to get a def...this is what has caused it diagnosis but being realistic it could be one of 1000's of different things so treating the symptoms and eliminating as much as we can in the way of suspects is our number 1 priority. We are lucky ours are all kept at home and we work from home so he is being watched all the time...i can even hear if anything is happening from my bedroom at night!
 
ester said:
I don't know anyone who has gone to the expense of an MRI to test for fluke, they have been treated off-label. The currently used horse wormers are not effective against fluke. I think fenbenzadole has some limited effect (v. closely related to Albendazole which is used).

They usually generate chronic effects, not the acute ones the OP is experiencing though.

OP do you have any others grazing the same land? Not conclusive but at least somewhat indicative as to what might be the cause if only one or many are affected via their bloods.
Click to expand...

Triclabendazole is used for fluke in other mammals and studies on pubmed show it to be the effective in equine fluke eradication of eggs, jeuveniles aswell as adult flukes.

Fenbendazole has been tested but shows varied results, never complete eradication.

The symptoms when first infected can be acute, and then progress to chronic liver disease symptoms the longer the flukes are within the liver system.
When they are burrowing and moving within the ducts, can cause acute symptoms. Thats why i wondered if op had used other wormers, like fembendazole which could disturb the from their duct positions, causing acute symptoms. The toxic proteases the flukes release degrade liver cells, giving symptoms of liver disease.
Flukes cause damage to the ducts, resulting in scarring.
Is it possible duct infection can be caused by flukes, as they pierce the duct lining to attach and feed?
 
He was wormed with Panacur in August and worm tested since. He has also been tested for fluke but the results arent back yet...hoping to get some answers on this if the vet calls back ever! Our grazing is on clay soil and is wet + we have had goats grazing on abit of our land which he was on in august and dec...personally i think we should worm for it anyway but they want to wait for the results first. One thing I forgot to mention was on the way to the vets he did the most enormous wee...flooded the lorry out!
 
PurBee said:
Triclabendazole is used for fluke in other mammals and studies on pubmed show it to be the effective in equine fluke eradication of eggs, jeuveniles aswell as adult flukes.

Fenbendazole has been tested but shows varied results, never complete eradication.
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yup I didn't think listing them all would be helpful (the benzimidazoles) as only the fenbendazole is really relevant.

OP it isn't clear if you have pulled bloods from the other horses?

Were the goats fluke treated?
 
I read a study a while ago where horses presented with bilateral laryngeal paralysis in association with hepatic disfunction. I have pasted the link to a vet times article which looks at the study which might be useful. Though it seems as though although they had similar symptoms only one pony in the study had these in a transient effect like yours. Also talks through some diagnostic tools which you could follow up with the vets.

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...ced-cache/1/treating-equine-liver-disease.pdf

Good luck with the pony! Everything crossed for you that he has a good recovery from whatever he has!
 
Ty RHM i have read that article, very interesting.
So have been on the phone to the senior vet for just over an hour which in itself is amazing tbh! Racked over all the bloods and hematology + all the clinical signs (none apart from breathing) and we are now almost 100% sure he has asthma probably triggered by an allergen...not sure what yet and further tests will be done but basically we always said it was like he was having an asthma attack and how come a genuine paralysed layrnx recovers so quickly (it dosent) and why does giving buscopan induce a miraculous recovery...turns out it works as a bronchial dilater. The raised liver results are either normal for him or are raised due to the allergen/asthma attack but as he has no clinical signs (pony is very perky!) and they have remained stable or got better she is confident he will be ok if we can get to the bottom of the breathing issues. She did say it was a weird case but at least we have a plan in place and a vet who is prepared to really look into it at last. Picking up buscopan and steroids tomorrow and allergen tests being done next week.
 
kingslane said:
also to clarify urea is 2.1 not 21 so is actually low...i literally have no idea what that indicates but my gut tells me bile related again...I did ask the vet on the phone (never seen him in real life) if he thought it was bile duct related and he thought not but couldnt really say why...tbh the more i re read my posts the more i realise i need to change vets!
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You certainly need a vet who is more proactive!
 
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