Pooling fluid in the uterus

S

silverbreeze

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2009
Messages
732
Location
Cheshire
Visit site
The owner of the stud where my mare has just gone has rung me to tell me that she had loads and loads of fluid pooled in her uterus; they have washed her out but he has said it is incredibly difficult for them to concieve after this
frown.gif
Has anyone had any experience of this or tell me a bit more about it.
I am so deperate for her to get back in foal (as some of you may alredy know from previous threads) as we lost her other youngster in Feb and she breeds brilliant stock.
Any experience or info (good or bad) would be appreciated
 
Have they only flushed her out? How many litres of fluid did they use to flush her out? Have they used oxytocin injections? Are they lunging her and/or putting her on the walker? We've had a couple of mares do this and we have been injecting with oxytocin as often as possible (at least 3 hours between jabs) and putting them on the walker and also lunging them - the lunging is very beneficial at expelling fluid. It works, though it may be expensive for you.
 
Agree with everything SN says .
These mares do get in foal but you need a stud owner than is very pro active and the treatment has to be aggressive starting within a few hours of being covered/AI'd .
These mares are often better AI'd with fresh semen as a smaller amount can be introduced causing less immflamation.
Has she had pre breeding endometrial swabs that would give you some idea of the best treatment as sometimes mares can just have sterile fluid but other times they need antibiotic treatment as well.
 
She hasn't been covered yet, it was when they were doing her CEM swab they did a uterial scan too. I'm not sure how many litres they used, I shall find out. She has had an Oxcytocin injection, should she be having more if she hasn't been covered yet or is that after she has been covered?
She isn't being lunged or anything, I don't think they have a walker but again I shall enquire, she is carrying a ddft injury that flared up again in Feb after a year back in work after the initial injury so the walker would prob be preferable to lunging. I shall speak to the SO about it all.
I will probably know more after the swabs then from what you say groomsbridge but I shall ring tomorrow and ask about the rest.
This info is all really helpful as it gives me something to go back to the stud and ask, I have never had experience of this as she was always a brood mare before I broke her in and she has had 5 years off, would this be the reason for the pooling? She had problems with the after birth when she last foaled and had to have it manually removed, there was no infection or any problems after that; could that have added to this problem too?
Thank you so much
S
 
There are some very good articles written by Dr J Pycock here
http://www.pycock.co.uk/articles.htm
The "old maiden mare" article has quite a lot of info on fluid pre breeding & "the dirty mare" article has post insemination fluid recommendations.

When we wash out its followed up with 4 hourly oxytocin injections & a rescan the following day, repeating the process if required.
 
Agree with everything said above. You need a stud who will manage her very carefully, but concieving is certainly not impossible.

I have a 21 year old mare who is due now. She always puts up a lot of fluid (not helped by age obviously), and it is made worse by the fact you have to be very careful with washing her out, as it seems to promote an even bigger inflammatory response in her.

Last year, we used Oxytocin judiciously (which we do as standard on all mares anyway), and lunged her four times a day. Further teasing after insemination is also good for mares who put up fluid.
 
We've had a lot of older visiting mares with this problem - we only do natural cover. I always tease mares vigorously the day after covering - and the day after the next covering. At the first sign they're going out of season we tease some more and inject Oxytocin. It seems to work very nicely!
 
This is all really helpful and I am going to speak to SO today. How long should they be lunged for and what sort of speed? Concerned about the damaged leg too as don't want to end up with no foal and no mare either!!
When they conceive with all these complications I am assuming that there is very little chance of a problematic pregnancy? I have had a mare who's foetus failed to attach to the placenta due to a huge systemic infection in the first few weeks of pregnancy and we lost the foal a day after it was born due to dysmaturity (sp)
 
Judicious use of oxytocin and/or reprocine may be more beneficial than lunge work for your mare, especially if she has a leg injury. You're looking at 4-6 hourly injections from 3 days before breeding, and 2-3 days afterwards (until the cervix closes), together with uterine lavage if there is more than 25mm of fluid in the uterus.

If that treatment clears her uterus successfully, then the chances of pregnancy are fairly high. There are other factors to consider though. What is causing this particular fluid accumulation? Is her cervix opening properly? Has her cervix been damaged during a previous foaling? How old is she?

You should probably consider a full breeding soundness examination including culture, cytology and biopsy. It would be well worth trying to identify what is going on now before blindly trying to fix the problem (without really knowing what it is). That said, if you're already underway, then go down the oxytocin route first. The Jon Pycock articles linked above are an excellent reference.
 
Hi

Thanks for that, she is 12. I am not sure what their plan of action is as a way forward but when I speak to him I shall ask about all of the suggestions mentioned to me as we do have a little time whilst we wait for the CEM swab results.

I shall also enquire about a full breeding soundness examination as like you say, it is far easier this way than the other way round. We have paid for the vet pack so i shall see if any of the necessary tests are included.. fingers crossed they are!
 
Always interested in this topic as so many mares suffer from this condition.

Last season and this current we AI some of the mares which "possibly react to natural covering" and have actually found that they still react badly even when we pop in just 5ml!

Oxytocin is definitely the way to get these mares to clean themselves up and as Janet says continued teasing after covering or AI certainly stimulates the mare in a positive way.

If the mare in question was with us and we scanned and found loads of fluid before we even started trying to get her in foal, my heart would definitely sink - but thats not to say with aggresive treatment she will not go in foal, just be aware of the costs involved as this could well become one expensive foal!
 
Yes a mare like this would definitely need to be on a vets package and the qxytocin will be included (a cheap drug in anycase)- and if she goes in foal 1st cycle thats great.

Unfortunaly this is often not the case and then the vet wlll advise a uterine biopsy (not included in a package normally) and then some more treatment prior to next ovulation.

We have excellent fertility results as we have a good stud vet, very fertile stallions etc and are dedicated to getting mares in foal, so if a mare needs a jab of oxytocin in the middle of the night, we go out and make sure she has it! But like i said in my previous post, starting with a mare full of fluid before it has even been to the stallion, is just not good and the stud where this mare is at the moment are pre warning this, by saying mares that have this condition prior to covering are difficult to get in foal. They are and thats for sure - but it can be done with a lot of work. The condition of her uterus needs to be obtained and the conformation behind and wherher anything can be done to improve it (caslick) to prevent self contamination.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Last season and this current we AI some of the mares which "possibly react to natural covering" and have actually found that they still react badly even when we pop in just 5ml!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fluid production, inflammation, etc. is a normal response to having any foreign material introduced into the uterus (although the reaction is often more pronounced when the sperm cell concentration is high, or when there are high numbers of dead cells). Normally, the mares are able to clear the fluid etc. However, these problem mares suffer from "delayed uterine clearance" (DUC).

So, it doesn't matter too much what volume is introduced, or by what method. However, it is quite possible that the material introduced via natural covering (smegma, dirt, dead cells, bacteria etc.) might exacerbate the condition.

[ QUOTE ]
Oxytocin is definitely the way to get these mares to clean themselves up and as Janet says continued teasing after covering or AI certainly stimulates the mare in a positive way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Teasing actually causes the mare to produce the oxytocin herself
smile.gif


Definitely check to see what is included in the vet package! I know some packages don't include -any- drugs, just scanning and insemination!!
mad.gif
 
okay... I have just left a message for SO to call me to see what they have planned for her. I guess my main concern over getting her pregnant would be to find out why she has retained the fluid..
could either or both of the following have caused it:
1. retained placenta after last foal just 5 years ago, it had to be manually removed
2. Long periods of box rest between her ridden work due to her tendon injury
I just don't understand why this has happened as she has never had probs witht he 4 foals she has carried before. I am now getting more and more concerned for my girl, how much stress will this be putting her under! she is a very good girl and very easy to handle and takes most things in her stride, I just don't want to go through all this and cause harm to my girl.. I am so anxious about this, I have lost two this year already and I couldn't bear to compromise a 3rd just for my sake!
The drugs are included in the vet package, just not sure to what extent.
Are there risks envolved in a uterine biopsy i.e. infection or further damage?
The stud is a well established place and they have a few stallions and plenty of experience, I also believe the vets that handle the mares are very experienced in this field so I am guessing they will have agood plan, I just like to be able to have something to ask about as I have no idea about all of this!
Thanks
 
DUC is perfectly normal for mares who have any one, or any combination of the following: are older (12+), have had multiple foals, have had uterine infection, have had retained placenta, have uterine scarring or damage for any other reason.

So there's no need to worry. Also, the treatments are unlikely to put her under any "stress" as such, so no need to worry there.

A uterine biopsy is totally painless and harmless if performed correctly.

There are no guarantees with horses, of course, but this shouldn't give you any further cause for concern. It's just something that needs to be checked out and managed.
 
okay, have spoken to SO. She has been washed out twice and has had 2 oxytocin injections as she was retaining a .ot of fluid. he didn't know the quantities but there were two considerable pools apparently. She is going to be rescanned on thursday to see if she has repooled or not.
He said that she wasn't in season but her cervix was open which is bad... any ideas on that one anyone?
It just gets better, he has told me not to worry and she is totally fine and not in the least bit stressed.. I feel like I am turning into an annoying, neurotic fool and I am probably the type of mare owner that studs dread!!
wink.gif
 
Not in season but cervix open? That doesn't sound very likely. The cervix closes under the influence of progesterone (which is produced when a mare is not in season), and opens with a lack of progesterone, and the presence of oestrogen (when the mare is in season). So that doesn't make sense, unless the cervix is damaged and cannot close?
 
I think that is what he might be getting at... I assume that means she may never hold a pregnancy again then? Is it life threatening to my girl because of infections or anything?
Would it be relaxed if she is about to come into season or anything?
 
Interestingly, I've just had a conversation with TB stud in Ireland and they have had considerable success using acupuncture on mares that pool fluid in the uterus.
 
I have a maiden 6 yr old mare who was hopsitalised last year and whilst she was there I tried to get her in foal with frozen semen and she had a lot of fluid and returned both times and I am now wondering what is best for her too! She was on total box rest so I am hopeful that being turned out will alleviate the problem but really don't want to waste any more money as it cost me a fortune last year!
Any help gratefully received. I am looking to use fresh or chilled this year as they said frozen could be the problem
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am looking to use fresh or chilled this year as they said frozen could be the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

Chilled MIGHT be a problem too as some mares react to certain extenders. I had a mare here last year that did - the semen was great but she failed to take for 3 cycles and despite all efforts, fluid was certainly implicated. This year she has gone to the stud to be done with fresh (no extender.)
 
WRT:

"I think she's having a reaction to the extender"

or

"The semen has been extended with an egg yolk extender and she's having a reaction"

Well, it sounds kind of plausible initially, but actually some very nice research from last year suggests that this really isn't the case. Palm et al (2008) infused phosphate buffered saline, seminal plasma, milk-based extender, and egg-yolk based extenders into the uteruses of 8 mares over four cycles, changing what was infused on each cycle, in alternating order. They then used lavage and biopsy to look at the immune response to each different infusion.

The results were very interesting. Similar immune responses were seen after uterine infusion with PBS, seminal plasma, and milk-based extender. The least pronounced immune response was seen after infusion with egg-yolk-based extender. Essentially, an immune response is a natural response to any substance getting into the uterus. Whether it's semen, extender, or saline, an immune response ("reaction") is perfectly natural.

The only thing that might cause any sort of adverse reaction in a semen extender might be the antibiotics contained in the extender. In fact, I heard a very interesting piece of anecdotal evidence recently about a mare I was working with last year. The mare failed to conceive on several consecutive cycles. A reaction to the egg yolk extender was eventually blamed, and the mare conceived when inseminated with raw semen directly after a collection. This year, the mare has been treated for a minor infection, and has been found to be extremely sensitive to a range of antibiotics. Almost all commercially available semen extenders contain a broad-spectrum antibiotic, and it is fairly likely that this factor was the main cause of her failure to conceive; due to an allergic reaction of the endometrium to antibiotics.

Milk and egg yolk are fairly innocuous, and it's really not plausible that they would cause an allergic reaction in the endometrium. If you've ruled out other problems, then consider an antibiotic sensitivity, but don't blame the semen extender!

@trisblu: High numbers of dead sperm cells, in a very high concentration is often the reason for DUC-type problems with frozen semn. You should be better off with fresh or chilled.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top