Poor Horsey

[Skhosu]

So vet came to do jabs today, did 4 others who stood w/out a blink apparently (I was only home just after) and tried doing my big lad in the stable, but couldn't get a look in.
Then decided to try on the lorry, mum didn't think it was a good idea but vet was keen to try.
So I arrived home and he was shifting a good bit, bouncing from back to front legs, same as he did last time. She got the needle in and most of the injection (I think) and he flipped!

He went up and down, eventually ending up with a foot on the tack lockers (our lorry has them like a bench at horse chest height? Know what I mean?).
So he struggled like this, and ended up losing his back legs, so was sitting with a front leg stuck up.
We got the partition open (tricky, as if he struggled, would have been a big metal partition hitting the vet!) and let him get up, he started struggling again and ended up rolling over and over, ending up at the bottom of the ramp, legs pointing up the ramp.
He then lay there, until we physically pulled him round, and he then got to his feet (shedding his rug which had ended up round his back legs).
Apart from a few nasty cuts he seems ok, although vet thinks he'll be stiff tomorrow. Poor boy was terrified, and won't let me touch his neck now.
I know some won't agree with procedure etc., but everyone did the best they could.
Any suggestions for 6 months time?

 

[Jemayni]

dope him prior?

 

[Skhosu]

Doesn't work. Would have to be the injection (...) as the other stuff he fights (two tubes of sedalin when pulling mane...fine until I touched the mane!)
Good suggestion though..

 

[GTs]

Get a different vet - what a silly thing to do, not only this risks of your horse being a wingnut in a closed area, but also the fact he could be more difficult to load in future.

After Stella's operation she hated needles - how did I vaccinate her - in a field, on my own.

If you can not make any ground, I would twitch him and try.

 

[wizzi901]

Get vet to dart your horse, or change vets, there are plenty of ways but this doesnt sound to clever, you could have had a broken leg there.

I know its not easy, had to sedate (after trying to get the damn jab in first lol) a friends very highly strung mare yesterday to clip her! - she woke up bang on 40 mins, clipping against time is not fun but she has been darted before as it was safer than her damaging herself or us!

 

[Tia]

Jesus christ........I am speechless.

What a totally STUPID thing for the vet to do! Get rid and get one who knows what they are doing!

 

[Skhosu]

Darted? I was wondering about getting another vet out, just to see if it helped, but just can't see how they would get anything near him now...
I would agree about closed spaces and broken legs....but have used it to tub a pony's foot before and it worked perfectly...

 

[Agent XXX999]

OK I know it is not jabs but I know of someone that tightly cross tied the horse in the back of his stable with hay net, built a wall of shavings for it to kick out at, aimed, fired, and did the injection in the bum over the shavings- no nutty horse because he was so shocked he didn't know what was happening...

 

[wizzi901]

yep, a decent vet will do a dart which just involves a good shot and a bit more money! - well worth it and it will put your horse totally out whilst you can jab it, do it's teeth etc etc.

Some vets are not keen, but really its far better to get it done safely than the money issue. After this experience your horse is never going to be keen on vets, however different they are.

Its a tricky one as all vets are different but I'd personally never use a box as I like a horse that loads, hopefully yours will be fine loading again and not connect the bad experience.

Each to their own, it has to be down to your judgement and your relationship with your vet.

I know if my vet even tried doing it with that result I'd I asked him to pay me!!

However, their main concern was probably just to get the job done. I'd make enquiries with other vets and see if they can dart your horse from a safe distance whilst it is in the stable to put him/her out before jabs etc, OR some hard core acp (doesnt work on mine!) but there are other sedatives.

Tranquilizers have their place with very nervous horses.

 

[Skhosu]

I think I should have told her to take him off once he got agitated..they already had him on when I got there.
Will probably request other vet to deal with him.....problem is he can get cross with him, and mother is freindly so no chance of changing, plus they know their veterinary stuff.
So everyone would say this is a stupid thing? As you probably all know, I am not a hugely experienced owner so generally listen to what the vet/farrier tells me.
It will be 6 months before renewals again, I am concerned that he might not get his vaccination, presumeably this would be dangerous for him?
It's all so stressful! Poor horse even had a fit about having his half neck rug put on..

 

[Skhosu]

See mine would be out over the wall of shavings!! In the bum sends him mental!
Humm...is that not a GA? Wouldn't be keen on that.
Incidently, she checked his teeth afterwards without an objection.

 

[Tia]

Yes it was a totally stupid thing to do. A good vet will be able to vaccinate your horse REGARDLESS of how naughty or badly behaved he appears to be.....and one worth his salt will not need the use of any blooming darts or any other such nonsense.

Bloody insane.

 

[wizzi901]

Not an easy one I admit, maybe enquire with them if your mum is set on having them, what other options are available in 6 months time.

Depends whether you compete and go out and about, if you are at livery or on your own land etc as far as jabs. When I had my own place and none of them were going out mixing it is probably it wont cause too much harm but it is the responsible thing to do if you are coming into contact with any other horse at all both for your horse and other peoples.

If you are out mixing your horse then you must have them done.

Sounds like he really has been through it, time will get his confidence, give him a few days before even trying to desensitize the neck area, let him be type thing then come back to it!!

 

[Skhosu]

Well... I would disagree that anyone would be able to get a needle in this boys neck, yes, he should stand for it, but he doesnt. He rears, throws himself around..
The box idea was a stupid one. Sedative wouldn't work at all IMO.
Not sure if I will be able to desensitise him, even stroking his neck can sometimes send him off.

 

[Lucy_Ally]

I agree with GTs and Tia, what a very bizarre suggestion to d it on the lorry

I would use a different vet in the future and spend some time yourself patting his neck and getting him used to the sensation. Get hold of an old syringe (no needle) and pat him all over with it, I would ask any future vets to teach you how to do intramuscular injections yourself as he knows ad trust you. I would also consider getting IM injections done in his bottom rather than neck as it easier to hurt a horse injecting the neck.

I hope that you manage to get it resolved.

 

[Agent XXX999]

!!! you poor thing...horses have their quirks just like humans...I passed out last time my neds had jabs - *did i just admit to that*

 

[Skhosu]

We had to do injections on him for a week, got to day 3 and he wasn't having any of it. We can't do it in the rump I don't think, tried it once and he went beserk, and I reckon he would kick.
This is what I am wondering. I have the old syringes and stuff but surely then everytime he gets a needle (which he will always believe will hurt..) surely he will just revert?
Another Q, should I cold hose his scrapes on his hock? Have walked him a good bit and will be turning him out tomorrow but it is already looking a bit stiff..
He knows me, but knows damn well what a needle means.
If he doesn't get his vaccs, what will the implications be? I'm very worried about tet. and flu?

 

[Skhosu]

Oh..don't mean to be putting everything down...just really stil shaking from the experience of trying to get him out of the box without breaking anything.
I would never EVER do it again this way..and think I may request the senior vet to do it for this boy in particular.

 

[Lucy_Ally]

If you play about with the syringes every day with him and try and desensitise him it may help, he may get used to the idea that syringes are ok and not pre-empt the needle tense up and make it hurt more. If you do it quickly and stand very close to the horses rump then I think its often better done there, plus they don't always know its coming. Will he be distracted by food or anything? You need a good brave vet that has a quick and careful technique and I think you'll be surprised at what can be overcome. When my old horse had a farrier phobia (only banging nails in and had never had nail bind) I used to get random strangers and people on the yard to bang his hooves with a hammer, maybe getting strangers to stroke his neck/bum might get him out of the mindset that it will hurt. The only way to get hi over this is firm and kind perserverence. You do need to get him over this as what will happen if he needs emergency veterinary treatment? If you can't inject him then it will make life very difficult not just at jabs times

 

[SecretSquirrell379]

your poor horsey, I hope she is ok in the morning and not too stiff. I does sound like a mad thing to do. Personally I would want lots of 'emergency exits' around me and plenty of space if I was handling a horse that I knew didn't like what I was about to do. Would a twitch not of helped? it would only of been on for 5 secs. Hope your ok too

 

[Fiona]

What a scary experience, both for your horsie and for you!!
Have to agree with others that seems a funny way for the vet to try and restrain your boy by putting him in the lorry, though have seen horses who are good to inject done in a trailer to save time when the vet was running behind (at vet's surgery). I think you need to have a serious discussion with this vet practice (if you want to continue to use them) about what way to approach the next vaccination in six months time. Not vaccinating is not an option if you (or any horse in your yard) wishes to go out and compete next year as most organisations including PC, RC and eventing ireland will check passports for vacc dates, so it is a problem that needs to be solved.
In saying that - I had a friend who had to get his horse sedated by the vet every time it needed shod. This went on for about 4 years, until he changed farrier who was willing to spend time with the horse, and now the horse can be shod perfectly normally. Good luck in trying to de-sensitaze your boy.

Fiona

 

[GTs]

At the hospital what we used to do with the difficult horses is line their bottom up with the sable door, you stand behind the door, lift up their tail (no peeking - it is rude), and on the other side there is a big muscle right there with nice thin skin, horses can not see behind them, kick around corners (especially with the opposite leg) and it is done without the horse even knowing.

 

[Skhosu]

thanks for all the suggestions.
Have been out to him and although leg is a bit swollen, seems not too bad.
Took me a while to get his hc on, but once had it on (he was spinning in his stable) he was calm.
Managed to stroke his neck eventually and once I did that, did a bit of pinching and he was fine (After a few knee-jerk head in the air reactions!).
Am wondering if being able to do it myself might not be a bad idea (previous vet used to leave injections if we were competing that night etc.) as I think as a once off every 6 months I might.(might!) be able to get it in!)
Yup, all events will check etc. so need to be doing it! He is up to date currently, so 6 months might be time enough?
Am happy with vets in all other respects, this is the only horse we've had a problem with. I'm afraid he has a bit of a rep, maybe why they rushed to the box (mum says he hadn't got to rearing stage before the decision to box him)?
Humm...will give him a few days to recover (he has that bunny in the headlights look currently) and then start experimenting with syringes.
Any tips for training him not to throw his head up as soon as he feels upset, as I think this is the main problem affecting the injection...
Out of interest, if he had done something bad to himself/vet (although not worth thinking about) would we as owners have been at fault because we allowed the vet to do it?

 

[KatB]

Take him to a vets practice and put him in the stocks. If he is that terrified, at least that would be a completely different experience that he couldnt associate with everyday life, so therefore won't loose trust with you. Trying to desensitise could work, and as GT's said, going the other way completely and taking ANY stress away may help.

 

[Skhosu]

Ok. He has actually been there for previous injections, and we have got them in (different vet) by threading his lead rope through a metal ring and holding tight! But think each time he has been worse, and has a had a run of a couple of months getting injected . I actually might try that next time, and then at least there are several strong hands to help if necessary and as you say not associating anything bad with everyday. They have stocks but again I would be concerned about him going up and putting a leg over?

 

[KatB]

Hm, I know where you are coming from, but at a big practice at least they have lots of expertees, and at least stocks are designed for horses being t**ts in them, something that lorries aint!!

I knew a mare who was like that, she did eventually allow people to do her in her stable, but only after alot of time where she realised life wasnt that scary as soon as a needle was presented!! But stocks was the only thing that did her to start with!

 

[Louby]

My ols mare was needle shy but the vet was that quick she didnt even realise it was in. He did it in her rump once and the next time sort of darted it with his hand into her neck. Over in a flash, suppose its down to the experience and technique of the vet.
Hope hes ok.