Poorly foal, blood test normal, ideas??

[Fools Motto]

At the stud we have a foal who was weaned 3 weeks ago approx (possibly a week more, mushed mind can't remember exactly). He is a bay colt who has been with another (chestnut) colt foal, whom at weaning suffered from the 'runs'. Chestnut colt was given medication and is now as right as rain. Bay colt has never had the runs, always eats up, drinks ok ect.. but he is a chronic wind sucker. Any fence, stable door, weave bars he is at it. He is on gastro guard and in time will have an op to help. The trouble is, he is so lethargic. Think leading a dead dog, it is that bad. He rarely bounces about like a foal of his age should. Part of it is maybe his breeding, as his parents are VERY laid back anyway, his older sister is as easy as pie to 'do' but colty pants takes the P. He could do with putting on a bit of weight, but TBH we can't feed him anymore as it is he on over 10lbs of hard feed a day! He eats hay well, has ad lib when in, good grass when out, although is always at the bloody fence sucking! Such a shame. Vet has blood tested him and nothing has come back being wrong yet.
Is he this way because of his sucking, or could there be any other reason that I just havn't thought about?
Through possible ideas at me.

 

[Spring Feather]

10lbs of what hard feed? That is a lot of hard feed for a foal. How many feeds is that split into every day? BTW My foals get 1lb of balancer per day.

 

[Fools Motto]

10lbs of what hard feed? That is a lot of hard feed for a foal. How many feeds is that split into every day? BTW My foals get 1lb of balancer per day.

Split into 4, morning, lunch, tea and late. He gets suregrow, stud cubes, chaff, youngstock mix and a drop of oil. TBH, I don't do the feeds as such, its all made up for me to put into his box and was told today that the boss has never had to feed so much to a foal. (he was born late march).

 

[Dancing Queen]

He sounds like he is on a lot of hard feed. My babies just get mare and youngstock mix and chaff twice daily with as much hay as they want. Have you had his heart listened to? x

 

[Spring Feather]

He may just be very quiet. Some dams consistently throw very very quiet offspring. I had a very quiet foal (the first foal from this particular dam) and it was like it was zombiefied. I actually thought it was brain damaged for a while but I did all the tests on it and no it passed all the tests so couldn't be damaged. Every subsequent foal from this dam has been the same. I no longer worry about them now, they are just quiet and very unflappable foals

 

[Fools Motto]

He sounds like he is on a lot of hard feed. My babies just get mare and youngstock mix and chaff twice daily with as much hay as they want. Have you had his heart listened to? x

He was examined as part of the course when weaned as his companion was suffering from the runs, both were fine then, but since then his lethergic 'ness' has deteriorated. First port of call was bloods, and thats way we are now. (Unless more information has developed and I am unaware).

I thought it was possibly linked to his sucking, I don't know much about windsucking, so thought I'd ask and see if anyone can come up with something that I may be able to do or pass info on.

 

[Fools Motto]

He may just be very quiet. Some dams consistently throw very very quiet offspring. I had a very quiet foal (the first foal from this particular dam) and it was like it was zombiefied. I actually thought it was brain damaged for a while but I did all the tests on it and no it passed all the tests so couldn't be damaged. Every subsequent foal from this dam has been the same. I no longer worry about them now, they are just quiet and very unflappable foals

Heres hoping! He is very sweet. Such a shame about his windsucking though. Where he got that from who knows.

 

[Dancing Queen]

i would try to stem the WS behaviour but perhaps he is just a chilled out dude! x

 

[Spring Feather]

Heres hoping! He is very sweet. Such a shame about his windsucking though. Where he got that from who knows.

When did he start windsucking? Was there an event or has he always done it since small?

 

[be positive]

There was some research a while ago when foals were not doing well in some big studs, I think it was something about the overuse of wormers killing the good bacteria in the gut, things have moved on a lot since then with the use of pre and probiotics, but it is worth looking into.

 

[Spring Feather]

Good point Be Positive. I give my little ones probiotics; most studs do though don't they? Is your foal on a probiotic Cool Mix?

 

[RutlandH2O]

If he's been wind-sucking since weaning, it could well be that there's entirely too much carbohydrate in his gut. The stress of weaning and the change in acidity in his hind gut due to the high concentration of fermenting carbs could very well be causing ulcers. Perhaps an endoscopy of his stomach should be considered. A reduction in the amount of carbs, with a corresponding increase in the quantity of fibre he is fed would certainly be a start in the right direction.

 

[Fools Motto]

When did he start windsucking? Was there an event or has he always done it since small?

When him and his dam returned from stud, he was windsucking, he was not doing so before. Since he has been weaned it has got worst.
He is due to have an op where part of the muscle that is held responsible for inhaling is going to be cut, and hoping that would mean he can't do it to such an extent. (there is a name for it, but can't remember). He will be going at the end of the month to have this done.

 

[Fools Motto]

If he's been wind-sucking since weaning, it could well be that there's entirely too much carbohydrate in his gut. The stress of weaning and the change in acidity in his hind gut due to the high concentration of fermenting carbs could very well be causing ulcers. Perhaps an endoscopy of his stomach should be considered. A reduction in the amount of carbs, with a corresponding increase in the quantity of fibre he is fed would certainly be a start in the right direction.

Very interesting. Thankyou.

 

[Spring Feather]

Forsell?

 

[Fools Motto]

Forsell?

Arhh, yes. Thats the one.

 

[foxy1]

The vet was telling me yesterday that foals can be very susceptible to ulcers, could this be the problem?

 

[TBB]

My first thought was R-Equi but if the bloodtests are ok its not that, then I wondered about Ulcers especially given the high amount of hard feed he is getting. I understood that as a rule of thumb the max a foal should get of hard feed was a pound per month of age meaning he should get a max of 7 pounds per day, but if a foal is in good bodyweight which mine usually are at weaning (mares are very good milkers) they get less. I had a windsucking foal a number of years ago but he wasnt at all quiet in himself, he was a bright bubbly little chap so its unlikely to be that. I'd check for ulcers and/or re do bloodtests, does he play at all with his companion when hes let out?

 

[Fools Motto]

Well, foal is still at the horspital - and has been for about 3 weeks now. He has had his Forsell operation and sadly that didn't work. He woke up groggy from the aesthetic and went straight to windsuck. 98% success rate and he is one of the other 2% it seems! Vets are very puzzled, something else also appears to be causing worry, but nothing has come back with anything to go on. No-one knows what to do at the moment. Vets want to keep him for a while longer and run, assumingly, tests that they haven't done yet.

 

[Monkers]

Presumeably the vets scoped the foal's stomach to look for ulcers?

 

[Fools Motto]

Presumeably the vets scoped the foal's stomach to look for ulcers?

Yes, they have done that. Nothing really to show for it. Kinda hoping ulcers would have been found, but nothing major that I've been told. He is still eating and drinking well, he doesn't do as many droppings as they think he should considering what is going in the front end. He has apparently lost a bit of wieght, but that they say, is normal given his situation.
And on a slight side note, his yearling sister who doesn't windsuck and is a good girl to do and looks stunning, went, for the first time today to chew on the fence!!
I've said before, his dam is a softie and has no vices.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Have you tried natural yoghurt in his feed so he will pick up.the windsucking as a breeder, you must know is stress related and now he is doing it, it's not going to go away.

 

[Maesfen]

Split into 4, morning, lunch, tea and late. He gets suregrow, stud cubes, chaff, youngstock mix and a drop of oil. TBH, I don't do the feeds as such, its all made up for me to put into his box and was told today that the boss has never had to feed so much to a foal. (he was born late march).

That's an appalling amount of feed for a foal that age let alone all the different types of feed at the same time. I know it's not your responsibility but your boss is a complete idiot, sorry.
Foal would be better on just one ingredient altogether at the ratio of 1lb for each month split over the day with as much hay/haylage he needs. If he's a good weight then I'd use Suregrow only, if he's a bit light I'd use stud cubes only. I'd take out any molassed feeds and chaff. This would hopefully make him keener on long fibre whether that be grass, hay or haylage which might in turn, curb the wind sucking if he needs to eat.

Sorry foal is still poorly, hope he improves but I think until his feed regime can be improved you'll always struggle.

 

[Fools Motto]

Am on an update mission!!

Foaly (AKA 'Sucker') is now back from horspital. He is looking well, actually put on weight and more alert which is VERY good news. Not perfect for his age, seen bigger stronger foals but for him it is a huge improvement.
However, he is still sucking - or trying to. According to the owners, he is the very first horse to want to suck on the side of the stone feed mangers. I have to admit, it takes an art to get any form of 'bite' on it - even for a grown horse let alone a foal. All the mangers are now covered in 'cribox', the door is fully grilled so he can't get that and then he goes to the window sill - which is almost out of reach for him, but he tries, so that is now cribox'd too! He has a box with a view, and can see plenty of goings on. He has been let out into the arena, which has tall boarding up along it - so far limiting the 'things' to suck on. Will have to put him out for some grass soon, but dreading the dash to the fence!

Thats it, all the updates really.