Poorly loan pony

[Cowparsley]

We have been loaning a brilliant old mate for the past 3 years. She's 23 so definitely getting on but still until recently able to hack/ pop the odd jump. Good relationship with the owner/ owners child who regularly ride together. Recently the mare has been lame and my daughter unable to ride so she has just been hand grazing her / grooming her. I get a feeling the pony is done, I think her riding days are over. Should the owner be honest with us and tell us to look for another or should we stick at it in the hope she gets better? Already looking at other options as my daughter is desperate to jump again and hack. Ps we are paying still obviously

 

[AmyMay]

Why not simply thank the owner for the wonderful time you’ve been able to have with the pony and give a months notice?

 

[minesadouble]

I would have a chat with the owner and voice your concerns.
If it were me, and I could afford it, if the pony had been a good, confidence giver and brought my daughter on I would feel I owed tit o the pony to let her see out her days with me, regardless of whether she could be ridden or not.
Whatever happens this is a valuable lesson for your daughter. Even if you buy a young, fit pony there will be every chance it will need time off at some point for one reason or another. They are not machines.

 

[Ratface]

Have you talked to the owner about calling the vet for a lameness work-up?

 

[Lucky Snowball]

The pony’s needs must come first. Your daughter can still look after her, riding shouldn’t be everything. You could easily give the pony back and find a different one. Would your daughter be upset. I’d get the vet to give a prognosis.

 

[Patterdale]

Give the pony back and get a sound one. This is the whole point of loaning and the reason the owners haven’t sold it. It’s their responsibility, not yours. To be blunt!

 

[Equi]

Give the pony back and get a sound one. This is the whole point of loaning and the reason the owners haven’t sold it. It’s their responsibility, not yours. To be blunt!

This. Thank them for the time they have given and send the mare back with a vet check (and I mean that a vet has attended and said it needs further investigation) and look for another. Don’t get caught in the trap of spending money to fix a problem that can’t be fixed for an old horse that isn’t yours and can be taken away at any moment.

 

[GypsGal1718]

If you have the funds staying with you to have a nice home is very ideal, riding should not be top priority.

 

[Patterdale]

If you have the funds staying with you to have a nice home is very ideal, riding should not be top priority.

Riding is absolutely a priority for pretty much all children. And there’s nothing wrong with that! There’s nothing wrong with the child wanting a pony they can ride.
If they just want something to feed and clean out a Guinea Pig will do the job much more cheaply.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

What does the vet say? If the prognosis is that a relatively short period off work will sort out the problem, I would carry on looking after the mare and then start riding again when the vet gives the all clear. However if the vet says that she is unlikely to come sound I would thank the owner very much for the opportunity and give the horse back to the owner for her retirement. It certainly isn't incumbent on you to be responsible for a retired horse that you loaned for 3 years. And I expect the owner always intended to take the mare back for retirement, otherwise she would have sold her, rather than loaning.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Double posted

 

[twiggy2]

How long has she been lame and what does the vet say?

 

[Birker2020]

I would have a chat with the owner and voice your concerns.
If it were me, and I could afford it, if the pony had been a good, confidence giver and brought my daughter on I would feel I owed tit o the pony to let her see out her days with me, regardless of whether she could be ridden or not.
Whatever happens this is a valuable lesson for your daughter. Even if you buy a young, fit pony there will be every chance it will need time off at some point for one reason or another. They are not machines.

Its easier to say that if you have your own land though isn't it?
It's certainly not a cheap option retiring a pony or horse if you are having to use the facilities of a yard or retirement home to do so, I can vouch for that! Its certainly not the responsibility of the loaner to do this although I'm pretty sure the owner would be rubbing their hands in glee with that option!

OP the ground had been horrendous over the last few months, unprecedented rainfall and terrible for equines feet, maybe its a long standing issue, or maybe she has laminitis with the richness of the grass, you won't know without either the owner or you paying for a vet lameness exam.

 

[Birker2020]

Riding is absolutely a priority for pretty much all children. And there’s nothing wrong with that! There’s nothing wrong with the child wanting a pony they can ride.
If they just want something to feed and clean out a Guinea Pig will do the job much more cheaply.

^^ this

 

[Abacus]

You don't mention having seen a vet, and as the loaner you have a responsibility to do this much (an initial check, not full diagnostics or lengthy/expensive treatments). At her age you may be correct about the prognosis but one vet visit would show that you are taking good care of her still and not just giving her back when she appears to be broken. Sounds like she has been great for your daughter, you owe her this much. From your post it sounds as though she still lives with the owner, did you agree who is responsible for vet fees? Normally the loaner is responsible for all costs.

As a owner of a small pony who is in a very similar position, I wouldn't be that impressed if you did nothing to treat a lameness, mostly because it's not fair on the pony to leave her sore, perhaps unnecessarily. My little old pony (about 25, we think) has been lame for a few weeks. Loaner has had one vet workup, paid for 2 weeks of bute and will reassess this Friday. After that, if it is long term which is likely, she'll come back to me to rest / retire but the loaner was willing to keep her longer. I've already fixed her up with the next loan pony belonging to a friend.

 

[ycbm]

23 is not that old for a pony that hasn't had a strenuous career. Somebody needs to find out why she's lame.
.

 

[Clodagh]

23 is not that old for a pony that hasn't had a strenuous career. Somebody needs to find out why she's lame.
.

I agree with this. And it’s the owners responsibility.

 

[Trickywooo]

Some of the replies on here are the very reason none of my horses will ever be loaned.
I find it quite sad that people seem to think a pony that up until recently has been a valuable teacher to a child, should now simply be discarded and dumped back on the owner without a second thought.
Children should learn that having horses and the responsibility of them is about more than just riding, in fact for a lot of people riding is a small part of horse ownership. If all your child cares about is riding then perfect stick to riding schools.
Personally I would get the vet out to have a look and go from there. Perhaps it is something a few weeks rest will resolve, and if not have a discussion with the owner. Please do not simply dump the pony straight back to the owner implying "its broke now so no good to us anymore". Appalling attitude imo.

 

[SantaVera]

Some of the replies on here are the very reason none of my horses will ever be loaned.
I find it quite sad that people seem to think a pony that up until recently has been a valuable teacher to a child, should now simply be discarded and dumped back on the owner without a second thought.
Children should learn that having horses and the responsibility of them is about more than just riding, in fact for a lot of people riding is a small part of horse ownership. If all your child cares about is riding then perfect stick to riding schools.
Personally I would get the vet out to have a look and go from there. Perhaps it is something a few weeks rest will resolve, and if not have a discussion with the owner. Please do not simply dump the pony straight back to the owner implying "its broke now so no good to us anymore". Appalling attitude imo.

^^^^^this

 

[Patterdale]

Some of the replies on here are the very reason none of my horses will ever be loaned.
I find it quite sad that people seem to think a pony that up until recently has been a valuable teacher to a child, should now simply be discarded and dumped back on the owner without a second thought.
Children should learn that having horses and the responsibility of them is about more than just riding, in fact for a lot of people riding is a small part of horse ownership. If all your child cares about is riding then perfect stick to riding schools.
Personally I would get the vet out to have a look and go from there. Perhaps it is something a few weeks rest will resolve, and if not have a discussion with the owner. Please do not simply dump the pony straight back to the owner implying "its broke now so no good to us anymore". Appalling attitude imo.

It’s not ‘dumping’ the pony. The owner had obviously chosen to keep ownership because they still want responsibility for the pony.

I have a very good pony who was out on loan last year. She became lame, the loaners got the vet out, she needed time off so I took her straight back. I would never in a million years have expected someone else to take responsibility for MY pony.
I had her back 6 months, she’s better so she went back out on loan. If she breaks again, I’ll take her back again straight away so her loaners can find something they can use.

Not everyone has the finances and space for multiple ponies. I think that expecting a family to look after MY broken pony at their own expense, and at the cost of their child not being able to have anything to ride, would be the appalling attitude here.

 

[Abacus]

I have a very good pony who was out on loan last year. She became lame, the loaners got the vet out, she needed time off so I took her straight back.

At least the loaners got the vet out before giving her back. Agree that the owner retains ultimate responsibility and should take a pony back but while on loan the loaner should get the vet at least once.

 

[Fieldlife]

I get the feeling from the original post, the pony's owner is both local and involved, and either the vet has been out, or the actual owner is calling the shots in managing the lameness as it is a flare up of a known and managed condition.

What the poster is exploring and asking for discussion on is establishing whether it is in the pony's best interests to carry on being ridden.

 

[Kirstd33]

What did you agree to before you started the loan, as I think that this falls into one of those grey areas and reading all the previous responses some people believe its the owners responsibility to investigate the lameness and some the loaners. Before owning our own we only part loaned 1-2 days/week and it was clear it was up to us to keep the owner abreast of anything amiss but hers to maintain the health of the pony with contributions from us of course. Its why a contract ideally needs to be in place before loans are agreed.

 

[Trickywooo]

It’s not ‘dumping’ the pony. The owner had obviously chosen to keep ownership because they still want responsibility for the pony.

I have a very good pony who was out on loan last year. She became lame, the loaners got the vet out, she needed time off so I took her straight back. I would never in a million years have expected someone else to take responsibility for MY pony.
I had her back 6 months, she’s better so she went back out on loan. If she breaks again, I’ll take her back again straight away so her loaners can find something they can use.

Not everyone has the finances and space for multiple ponies. I think that expecting a family to look after MY broken pony at their own expense, and at the cost of their child not being able to have anything to ride, would be the appalling attitude here.

Of course the ultimate responsibility lies with the owner but that does not mean the loaner owes the pony nothing. I have not suggested that the loaner be responsible for this pony until its dying day, however it is not unreasonable to suggest the loaner could get the vet to investigate the lameness and take it from there:-

Personally I would get the vet out to have a look and go from there. Perhaps it is something a few weeks rest will resolve, and if not have a discussion with the owner.

If the child has to learn that riding is off the cards for a few weeks/months while the pony recovers then that isn't an awful lesson for a child to learn. When you have horses you take the good with the bad or don't have them at all.

 

[Kirstd33]

Whether the loan should continue depends on the cause and the prognosis of the lameness. A temporary lameness and/or rehab period will of course teach the child additional skills and patience with regards to animals but if the prognosis isn't good and the child wants to progress I wouldn't hesitate in sourcing another pony whilst keeping in touch with the pony's owners to see how it is.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Who is responsible for vet bills in your contract?
Id definitely want the pony assessed by a vet before making any decisions

 

[minesadouble]

Riding is absolutely a priority for pretty much all children. And there’s nothing wrong with that! There’s nothing wrong with the child wanting a pony they can ride.
If they just want something to feed and clean out a Guinea Pig will do the job much more cheaply.

Hmm, whilst I agree with you up to a point I do feel it's important for children to not view ponies as disposable goods.

When my youngest was 10 or 11 her pony had a bit of dental work that required time off. Even at that age she was happy to accept that she would be unable to ride him for a while and she totally took charge of his recovery, keeping an eye out for signs of infection and administering bute and antibiotics. Once the swelling had gone down she pootled round the farm on him in a headcollar, all the while her sisters and friends were hacking out and competing and she never complained, I think she actually quite enjoyed the responsibility of 'nursing' her pony back to health.

Admittedly, it's very different when you have a timespan and you can see an end in sight of when your pony will be rideable again, and I agree that ultimately the responsibility lies with the owner not the loaner but I do think that this is a lesson all children involved with ponies need to learn.

You're correct, f they just want to feed and clean out they can indeed get a Guinea Pig, equally, if they want to ride something that won't go lame or get injured they could get a bike!

 

[Polos Mum]

OP is the pony on loan - i.e. you have sole use of her and sole responsibility for her livery / feed / shoes etc?
Or is it more of a share where you ride 3-4 times a week at the yard the owner chooses to keep the pony at and you pay a set amount each week / month.

You said loan but "still paying" suggests more of a share situation

If the pony was on loan to you, you would have the contract with the livery yard and there would be no option to stop paying livery to the independent yard.

Sending a loan pony back with undiagnosed lameness isn't ideal as you've no idea whether it's forever or an abscess. IF it's a loan, your loan contract should be clear about when to call vet and who pays.

If it is a less clear cut share agreement, then perhaps have a chat with the owner about what they are planning to do to investigate the lameness cause / prognosis.

23 for a small pony of average mileage isn't that old at all.

 

[Wishfilly]

I agree about the "still paying" comment- this sounds like more of a part loan/share situation, in which case responsibility for vet care lies with the owner and it would be overstepping to call the vet. I am afraid that I would not invest significant time and money on vet bills on someone else's pony, and I also wouldn't retire a pony with undiagnosed lameness.

I think in this scenario (unless I'm misinterpreting), responsibility very much lies with the owner, and I would discuss the situation with them and probably give notice.

I would also add with loaned ponies, the owner can pull them back at any time, for any reason (as they should be able to)- this is heartbreaking for children (I've been there), and so it is hard to develop the feeling of lifelong commitment I feel with my own as an adult.

OP, can you clarify:

1) Has the pony seen the vet at all?

2) Is it a full loan or a share? Do you pay the owner for use of the pony, or keep the pony and pay all expenses?

 

[Cowparsley]

I agree about the "still paying" comment- this sounds like more of a part loan/share situation, in which case responsibility for vet care lies with the owner and it would be overstepping to call the vet. I am afraid that I would not invest significant time and money on vet bills on someone else's pony, and I also wouldn't retire a pony with undiagnosed lameness.

I think in this scenario (unless I'm misinterpreting), responsibility very much lies with the owner, and I would discuss the situation with them and probably give notice.

I would also add with loaned ponies, the owner can pull them back at any time, for any reason (as they should be able to)- this is heartbreaking for children (I've been there), and so it is hard to develop the feeling of lifelong commitment I feel with my own as an adult.

OP, can you clarify:

1) Has the pony seen the vet at all?

2) Is it a full loan or a share? Do you pay the owner for use of the pony, or keep the pony and pay all expenses?

Hi sorry it's taken a while to reply! It's a part loan/ share 3 days a week. Definitely not a contract situation where we agreed to anything other than riding/ doing jobs on a weekly basis. My daughter wants to carry on doing jobs/ grooming until the mare either becomes sound again or the owner tells us 'enough' but I guess what I'm asking is, should the owner give us the option of looking for another?