Poss controversial. Riding affecting horses

[brighthair]

so true. I've ridden for 21 years, and never been a brave rider, and the 5 years I gave up for has had a massive effect. I struggled starting riding again as even though I was "gym fit" I wasn't riding fit
I've been sharing Han for 5 months ish, and she has made a massive difference to my riding. I couldn't get her to soften at all on the first day - now it's almost second nature. But everytime I think I've got it, I learn something more.
My lesson a few days ago - had a wobble, and did my "can't do it". Eventually decided to get a grip, and rode for a big trot. Got a lovely swinging, relaxed trot from nothing except leg and tiny bit of outside hand
She teaches me (when my nerves let her) more and more every time I am on her, and I'm starting to actually feel like a half decent rider now
The biggest thing that I learnt this year was "Ask her, but then let her answer" so rather than me nagging her for something, to stop, and see what she gives me - then I can carry on asking, or stop, and enjoy the ride

 

[Kokopelli]

to be incredibly honest i agree, my boy and i had reached a point where we were struggling. after the usual checks i went to a dessage clinic, got told to slightly alter my position (not easy when you've had same position for 6 years!) and now voila we're more in tune and moving really well! my riding has improved and so has he! definately need to get your riding checkd before you think about a horse being naughty or bad!

To continues on with this, get your position checked by someone who doesn't normally teach you. I have found sometimes my RI become accustomed to my faults and don't point them out, some people also pick up on different things.

With my old pony he always just 'fell' into canter and we lost a few marks on dressage, I went to a very well known RI who told me to sit up the tiniest bit more in my canter transition and my pony started doing beautiful transitions.

 

[skewby]

Feeding can also play a large factor. Few people know how or what to feed, they go by volume and not by weight according to size and work.

That is SUCH a good point. My lad is massive and has nothing other than good grass and haylage all year round. He's not a great doer, but will hunt a full season on nothing other than good haylage, and no hard feed other than a very basic and fibrous hot and salty one after a day's hunting. I am so very afeared of the rubbish they put in sold hard feed, and the fact my lad has so much energy on a natural diet makes me wonder does any horse need it at all. The feed merchants have a lot to answer for if you ask me but that's prob a whole different thread!

 

[skewby]

I watched a lesson last week by an FBHS. One of the riders, quite advanced, was scrubbing with her seat so blocking the movement, then kicking with her legs to try to get him forward. Eventually the horse fly bucked - to my eyes he was saying he was doing his best but getting nowhere. FBHS told rider to whack him as he was being insolent. Where do you go from there?

Omg that hideous humping in the saddle, so damn common in the "I do dressage" contingent, it's so blocking!!!

What on earth is FBHS? From what you have said alone I do not rate him/them/it.

 

[Allover]

What on earth is FBHS? From what you have said alone I do not rate him/them/it.

A Felow of the British Horse Society Dahling!!!

 

[nikkimariet]

I think to be a good rider - rather than just a rider - you have to be able to and willing to recognize your own faults, and work on them.

 

[skewby]

That is SUCH a good point. My lad is massive and has nothing other than good grass and haylage all year round. He's not a great doer, but will hunt a full season on nothing other than good haylage, and no hard feed other than a very basic and fibrous hot and salty one after a day's hunting. I am so very afeared of the rubbish they put in sold hard feed, and the fact my lad has so much energy on a natural diet makes me wonder does any horse need it at all. The feed merchants have a lot to answer for if you ask me but that's prob a whole different thread!

Oh and I should have added, that the only reason he gets a post hunting hard feed is that the silly beggar knows the routine so well he gets himself totally wound up the night before, and does not sleep, drink or eat but just smiles and shakes until the meet, then goes all day like a machine, then has to go out when he gets home cos he's so wired still, and will only calm down around 5/6pm by which time I am aware he has not eaten or drunk and done a LOT of hard work in 24 hours so *I* feel better if he has some sort of hard, hot feed in him!! And even so he's always bright as a button and full of the joys the next morning, wish I had his energy lol. Bit of an aside but just saying yes, do horses in the majority really need hard feed?!

 

[Pharphar!]

Omg that hideous humping in the saddle, so damn common in the "I do dressage" contingent, it's so blocking!!!

What on earth is FBHS? From what you have said alone I do not rate him/them/it.

^^^^^this^^^^
is veeeery interesting as i was told to 'hump' the saddle by a supposed bells and whistles instructor!

 

[gugglebum]

I've only been reading this forum recently but its something that struck me, the absence of bad riders! We know they're out there, we certainly talk about them, but none of us are them lol

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

That is SUCH a good point. My lad is massive and has nothing other than good grass and haylage all year round. He's not a great doer, but will hunt a full season on nothing other than good haylage, and no hard feed other than a very basic and fibrous hot and salty one after a day's hunting. I am so very afeared of the rubbish they put in sold hard feed, and the fact my lad has so much energy on a natural diet makes me wonder does any horse need it at all. The feed merchants have a lot to answer for if you ask me but that's prob a whole different thread!

^^ this
seems to be default that horses MUST have hard feed worked at a yard abroad where most of the horses and ponies even ones in quite a lots of work ever day and competition showjumpers were only fed haylage and grass unless they really needed more and they were in great condition with great feet and loved their work

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes I believe that a lot of problems can be put down to a rider error, tenseness etc. BUT what happens if you have a horse that is a resistent to a contact/correct way of going that two top instructors can not even get going properly (one being an ex international junior dressage team member) who both label the horse as difficult?

or can conformation play an important role? the horse mentioned above was difficult but she was a cob type and had a shortish powerful neck and large shoulder so that she found dressage difficult?

(sorry if an of this has already been posted I havent read all the replies!)

 

[JanetGeorge]

It just honestly amazes me how we write off a horse when possibly, just maybe, it may be a rider fault, but we don't even go there.

I would go so far as to say that at LEAST 80% of the time it is the fault of the rider (or possibly a past rider who has left problems the current rider is not capable of fixing.)

I find it rather embarrassing when we have 'problem' horses in for re-schooling - horses who allegedly buck, take off, won't canter on the right lead, or whatever. Very often we can't locate the problem the owner complains of - the horse goes just fine! At that point we have to get the owner in and on the horse and see what rider errors are causing the problems - and it can be difficult to say - tactfully - nothing wrong with the horse, it must be YOU!

 

[JanetGeorge]

^^^^^this^^^^
is veeeery interesting as i was told to 'hump' the saddle by a supposed bells and whistles instructor!

Unfortunately, instructors use a lot of analogies to try and get the message through. Then the riders carry them out to excess! To get a novice rider sitting correctly in canter and moving their hips with the horse's movement it IS a useful analogy (with adult riders) but then you have to tone it RIGHT down (and THAT conversation can get a bit raunchy!)

With children, I tell them to imagine they are on a swing - but they only want it to swing very slow and low!

But it's like anything else: you tell a rider to sit up straight, and they sit ramrod straight, hollow their back and bounce! You tell them to keep their heels down, and they force them down so hard the stirrup flies off their foot.

A GOOD instructor LOOKS at the rider and makes gentle corrections to position to avoid creating stiffness and over-active riding. The biggest fault MOST riders make is working too hard - hell, the horse is meant to be the one working!

 

[blitznbobs]

Whilst I agree in general with this post I think it's
Going a bit far. If we all rode like Edward Gal it wouldn't make all horses Totalis. Perhaps it's our expectations that are wrong as well as our riding

 

[TGM]

Yeah I guess it is going to have a big effect. But then I have a pretty poor position but horses tend to go well for me (maybe I've just been lucky!) - so also think people get a bit hung up on position of the rider, when IMO it's all about confidence!

I think you can get away with 'technical' position faults as long as you are in balance, go with the horse and have giving hands, which I am sure is the case with you! Confidence is important, but however confident you are, if you are constantly banging on the horses back and catching it in the mouth the horse's performance is bound to deteriorate.

 

[tallyho!]

I don't think the OP was saying it was ALL down to the rider, however the rider should be brought into the equation as a whole.

i totally agree with the OP though, we are as a nation of riders quick to blame the horse, I'm guilty of that. But, it is my responsibility to get help from instructors, books, whatever and improve us both.

You see loads of Before & After posts on here after someone has had some instruction - the difference is amazing and I bet you not much changed on the horses part!

 

[Wagtail]

Yes I believe that a lot of problems can be put down to a rider error, tenseness etc. BUT what happens if you have a horse that is a resistent to a contact/correct way of going that two top instructors can not even get going properly (one being an ex international junior dressage team member) who both label the horse as difficult?

or can conformation play an important role? the horse mentioned above was difficult but she was a cob type and had a shortish powerful neck and large shoulder so that she found dressage difficult?

(sorry if an of this has already been posted I havent read all the replies!)

There are some horses of the type you mention that are thick through the gullet and find it impossible to flex correctly. These horses are extremely rare and I have only ever ridden one horse (out of a couple of hundred I have ridden) that I cannot get to go correctly within one session. This horse was a very thick set cob.

 

[blood_magik]

Yes I know what you mean but I don't think your quoted poster meant that, I think she meant (and she will please correct me if I am wrong) horses that are bargy and rude on the ground JUST because they can be and have learned how to be and not been stopped, are not going to be good under saddle because they will continue their "I am doing what I please" attitude.

Horses which are "funny" on the ground in the way of ears back, biting/kicking in my limited experience are the ones who have been manhandled at some point.

^^ agree about the manhandling bit. mines really funny - sometimes he's perfectly fine yet I can approach him with a bit of gamgee or a boot and the ears go back and he backs up into a corner and won't let me near him.

I definitely agree that the rider does affect the horse however I don't think that you can ask for more if the rider is aware of the issues and trying to correct them for their horses sake

 

[TallyHo123]

Agree totally. But like many others have said sometimes problems such as bad hips etc. can't be helped.

 

[Walrus]

A GOOD instructor LOOKS at the rider and makes gentle corrections to position to avoid creating stiffness and over-active riding. The biggest fault MOST riders make is working too hard - hell, the horse is meant to be the one working!

This! I do this, my instructor laughs because when she says prepare for trot I gather up my reins and flap about like a duck - pony's head goes up and we have a very flustered transition. I'm working on sitting very still and using minimal signals - guess what, it works - our transitions are much calmer and to the point and we don't spend the first 3 circuits in trot trying to establish a rhythm! Sometimes it's the most obvious, simple things but you just need someone to tell you! Also, I am very guilty of moving too much in walk (literally humping the saddle!!) which is spoiling my pony's walk by rushing him - unfortunately that's such an engrained habit it's proving to be one of the hardest to break!

 

[skewby]

Yes I believe that a lot of problems can be put down to a rider error, tenseness etc. BUT what happens if you have a horse that is a resistent to a contact/correct way of going that two top instructors can not even get going properly (one being an ex international junior dressage team member) who both label the horse as difficult?

or can conformation play an important role? the horse mentioned above was difficult but she was a cob type and had a shortish powerful neck and large shoulder so that she found dressage difficult?

(sorry if an of this has already been posted I havent read all the replies!)

I totally believe conformation of the horse is huge in the equation, your tb types are going to find it much easier than some heavier types, as in mine!

This is from about 2005 I think, he's Suffolk x and was a total cut and shut, massive front end and nothing behind:

Now with a lot of work he's evened out hugely and is light and lovely, I spent years being told he'd "never do it" by so called knowledgeable people who taught me at RC rallies etc., but luckily I found an ace instructor who is adamant that they ALL can, just some will find it harder than others, but they can, and she was right.

This is him now, far more evened out and looking like the same horse in front and in back!

And him working nicely (IMO):

I'd be incredibly wary of ANY rider/instructor who completely writes a horse off. I just don't buy it, it smacks far too much to me of ego. As in "I can't get this working correctly, therefore it must be impossible".

 

[skewby]

A GOOD instructor LOOKS at the rider and makes gentle corrections to position to avoid creating stiffness and over-active riding. The biggest fault MOST riders make is working too hard - hell, the horse is meant to be the one working!

Yes totally agree with this, you hear people say about their horse "oh he needs LOADS of leg" like they're happy with that situation. Why aren't you/your instructor correcting this? If you're needing to use loads of leg you will most likely be tight from the effort, and blocking the horse from going forward yourself anyway. A horrible vicious circle for horse and rider, hey riding is meant to be FUN, how is that fun?!

I do think actually that there are an awful lot of instructors around who either don't really know what to look for in a client's riding, OR are not brave enough or tactful enough to give out the crit needed to alter the riding, and equally lots of clients who are happy to pay good money to be told what they want to hear, but never actually improve.

 

[Booboos]

The vast majority of responses to these threads say "check for physical problem first, then get yourself a good instructor or get a professional to assess the horse and your suitability to it" which I take it is a polite way of saying "the rider is causing the problem". So I think people do consider the rider's influence as one of the main factors in creating/perpetuating problems.

Personally all my instructors have worked on my position, effectiveness of aids, etc and I would find it very bizarre to have a lesson where none of this was raised.

 

[dressagecrazy]

Personally all my instructors have worked on my position, effectiveness of aids, etc and I would find it very bizarre to have a lesson where none of this was raised.

I have many position faults & have been riding & doing well competitively all the way up to Med level & trained my own horse to Adv.

I thought all my instructors where good they all worked on me to a point, i got better, good marks & higher up the levels but never felt great most of the time.

Yesterday i went for a training session with a new trainer on my Baby PRE, she is fairly un-known but is ex TTT. She stripped apart my position & for the first time in a long time i started feeling like i was really riding. My baby horse now hopefully has a chance of doing really well if i can keep training with this lady.

So yes bad riding does affect the horse.

 

[Saucisson]

I see so many threads on here where I just want to respond with "get someone who knows what they're doing on the horse"!

My OH is a good rider and I'm...........er..........not I see how the horses mess me about and how they wouldn't even consider it with him (including napping, spooking etc). He just doesn't tolerate these habits and they know that and don't bother trying. It's only because I've seen their behaviour with him that I am stronger with them myself and expect the same. If I had never seen this I would probably be worrying and stressing about the horse having a "problem".

I also think it's a question of the horse/rider combination. For example, my best side is the same as OH's mare's best side so we toddle along happily one-sided. I have to make a real effort to remember to change over sometimes If it was only me riding her she would be utterly lop-sided

 

[Flame_]

Sometimes its the rider, sometimes its the horse, more often than not its a combination.

I sent a horse with a problem away for retraining. A big part of this retraining was once the horse had some straightening out, I went for lessons there which were a big help. However while i was there I rode another horse that was in for retraining to see what it did with someone, i suppose, not as good as the trainer, but not nervous like the owner.

Well this horse had been rearing with the owner but the trainer found no problems. When I rode it, it didn't rear but it felt unhappy, and IMO unsound. lovely in one direction, stuffy and uncomfortable the other. The trainer felt the lack of tantrums proved this horse's issue was the rider. I felt it proved that it is possible for a fairly competent rider to get a horse with a problem to do quite a bit. Very good riders can get horses with problems to do even more.

Depends how you look at it.

 

[Molly'sMama]

Hi , I'm new here

I think - at least with younger horses and people coming off RS horses - that it does make a lot of difference.
My 6yo coblet, had been shaking her head around a lot whilst being ridden , and that caused speculation with the liveries. Did she need a martingale? Was her bit pinching? Maybe she just needed to be ridden hard through it .
Had a lesson with my fabby instructor ,S, and she noticed it obviously. So we did some no stirrups and we noticed the head shaking stopped.competely .
We then worked out it was MY tugging and pulling on the reins that was doing it but whilst i was focusing on my balance and staying centre, i kept them low and still. So I worked on that when i got my stirrups back ,and now she hardly does it. So yes, i think that riding makes a massive difference. i think people dont want to hear " Your horse is fine, you're the one whos making it mess around" .
But then , old habits are the hardest to break. I once read you have to do something 40 , 000 times correctly to break a habit