Possible Back Pain? Spinal Arthritis?

[Ashy]

Hi, really hoping someone may be able to share their knowledge on this with me?.... I have an undiagnosed (as yet) condition in my mare which causes her to always bend to the left and resist bending right. She is tight in her left shoulder and takes short strides with her left fore, but weight bears on this side so it looks like she is lame on her right fore. My vet has nerve blocked the right fore including the shoulder and found no change to her way of going so has concluded the problem is coming from higher up - possibly her neck, saddle area or withers. She is like this on the lunge, under saddle and at liberty. The energy comes through from behind but seems to stop in the saddle area behind her withers where she holds the front half of her body really tightly. I have persevered and worked her through it in the past, despite her resistance, believing it to be typical muscle asymmetry and one sidedness, and she has improved loads. (Lots of physio, bowen, lateral work, lunging, ground poles on a circle, bending and stretching etc) I have her in a wow saddle and she has changed shape dramatically, her spinal processes have lifted, she has developed much better topline and generally come on in leaps and bounds. However the problem still persists and comes back with a vengeance if she has any time off. It also seems to be getting worse as time passes. I have her on bute at the moment as an interim measure. Also, whenever she is worked on the lunge or under saddle and is made to work properly over her back and do lots of bending she gets small swollen lumps running down the top of her vertebrae at the back of her withers and either side of her spine. They appear in different places every time and look like an inflammatory reaction to stretching her back and spinal processes/ ligaments. At first I thought it was the saddle that was causing this and although I have had some issues with this in the past these have been resolved and the saddle fits perfectly but the lumps still appear and even when she is lunged in a roller. She will be going away for scans and further tests, but I wondered if anyone could tell me the different symptoms of spinal arthritis/ kissing spines/ luxations/ ligament injury/ fracture/ other trauma to the neck/ shoulder area/ spine/ saddle area? She evented for 5 years before she came to me so may have suffered a fall xc... or could it still be old (at least 2 yrs ago) trauma from eventing in a badly fitting saddle?....

Thanks.

 

[AmyMay]

Have you ever had her looked at by a back specialist i.e physio??

 

[BethH]

I am not convinced it is kissing spine as she would be unlikely to be able to lift her back and would struggle to come through from behind, you can do a simple test, find the gully between her front legs (my horse is so fat is pretty easy to find!) follow it along to the girth area and dig your nails in and along her belly, if she can lift and stretch her back in an upward arch would be good sign spinous process not locked up and therefore unlikely to be kissing spine, my horse was utterly unable to flex his back. I can not speak for the other symptons as I don't have the knowledge to comment on things like spinal arthritus, however I know that Twigben had a very sad time with her horse and is very knowledgeable about spinal arthritus and can give you an idea of symptoms, maybe you could pm her, and my apologies to her if I have passed on her name and she isn't able to discuss it.

It sounds as though you have done brilliantly with your horse so far, I believe after everything my horse has been through that the more accurately you can get them to work i.e., from behind in to an outline, the more you strengthen them and enable them to cope with any problems so think you have probably done the best thing for your mare. It is quite possible that any of the reasons you have given could cause tension and damage to the area you are talking about I would have a decent physio/osteopath look at her to check her over, am not sure where you are based but if it is kent/surrey can give the names of a couple of very good people.

Best of luck hope you find the answer and solution

 

[GinaGem]

I hope TwigBen won't mind me posting this but she went through a lot with her horse who has now sadly been PTS. She is very knowledgable re spinal arirtis and may be worth a pm. Ben also had spavins and became progressively worse with work and gradually went down hill even after the work was stopped and he was put on high levels of pain killers. The x-rays didn't show anything (very difficult to get clear pics of the spine) so bone scans are better if spinal arthritis is suspected.

 

[Twigben]

Hello

Like BethH and GinaGem both said i had a horse with arthritis in the spine. He was only 5 yrs old and had been worked hard as a baby in training in Ireland to race and then XC as a 3.5yr old, onto a jumping home for a few months and then to me. He always had trouble stretching down, he couldnt walk on a long rein in the normal way and couldnt do carrot stretches at all (stretching his neck down to the floor/between his legs) i knew there was somthing wrong almost as soon as i brought him home! and started on a very long and painful process to try and find a solution to the problem. I had an oesteopath out to him who frankly was uanble to do anything, i tried 3 saddlers, 4 saddles, 3 instructors, he had his teeth done and had the vet out (i cant begin to tell you how many times i saw the vet and not just one vet but about 7 in total). Over the months his behaviour changed, he got angry to be touched over his back and withers and eventually started to nip and then bite, at one point he was so upset he began to kick out as well. By this point he wouldnt stand to be mounted and bucked violently. He too had soft lumps appear along his spine after he had been ridden - but interestingly not after he had been lunged even in a saddle - i put this down to the extra weight from me! All through this time i had the vets coming out what seemed likely weekly, each time i was told it was in my head and that there was nothing wrong with my horse - it was behavioural not physical - i was told at one point that he needed to be in a "professional home" with "professional people". I enlisted the help of a behaviourist (who came from Wales to Kent just to see Ben!) to see if it was just behavioural - as i had said all along it wasnt! My current instructor and i noticed that over this time he became intermitently lame - almost "bridle lame", you would start with him being not quite right at the start of a lesson and then he would sort of work through it and become sound - he never tracked up the whole time i had him but his action was just not right. I eventually asked Gill Maybury (excellent, excellent lady chiroprator cant recommend her enough) to come back (she had been treating him with varying degrees of sucess) and she agreed with me there was something else going on with this little horse and that the "lameness" linked with the behaviour was not normal - she was the one that eventually got the vets to listen and against there advice i got him bone scanned - low and behold hot spots along the spine and hind legs - following x-rays they diagnosed spavins in both hocks but were unable to get very good x-rays from the spine - but good enough to show that it was not kissing spine. We had an ultra sound done and there it was - arthritis!

I was determined that he would stay with me come hell or high water but he deteriorated so very quickly it came to the point where it would have been cruel to keep him alive any longer. He was on 5 bute (danillion) a day and still stiff and lame - his condition was not able to be helped - the spavins made him lame which meant his back was under more strain, this then made him walk funny and so on, a hopeless downward spiral.

I hope that what your horse has is not arthritis. All i can say is that my gut feeling was correct. If i were you i would push the vets - if you can get him scanned. I had a full lameness work up, nerve blocks etc etc and none were much help.

I have to say though through all this he was barely in work - he would come into work after he showed an improvement but would soon be back on field rest again - i can probably count on one hand the amount he was ridden from Feb until April when i demanded the scan.

I hope your vets are more helpful than mine - i am still v bitter that i was treated so badly but so pleased that i didnt back down - they made me feel like i was a stupid owner that shouldnt have an "ex-racer" because i couldnt handle one (even though he was my 2nd!)!

If you need any more advice/want to chat just PM me, i am happy to help!

Amanda x

 

[GinaGem]

If you are in the south east Gill would def be worth a try. She worked wonders with my horse who had been worked very incorrectly as a youngster and had severe neck/back/hind leg problems. It was my vet who suggested her and under sedation Gem had three treatments which cured the neck/back probs. She still gets a little stiff through her left hind and so she regularly gets it checked by Gill but i can't tell you the difference it made with her schooling. Before she would find it difficult bend to the left in the school and i made the decision to call the vet when she started to become moody being touched around her front end.

 

[Ashy]

Thanks everyone, I really really appreciate the feedback. It will help me to prepare myself for whatever happens!!

From what you have said it is probably not kissing spines.. phew!, but could very well be arthritis...although what is confusing to me is the fact she can bend down and round to the left, but not round to the right. She has about half the mobility in her neck on this side compared to the other. Can arthritis have this effect? I actually have arthritis in my spine and neck too (spooky! why is it horses always mirror their owners!?

) and I find the stiffness shifts around and changes position depending on what i have been doing...

Amanda, what you have described sounds very familiar to me. My girl also gets upset when you brush down her back and around her withers but tries her hardest to please. She has also been going intermittently bridle lame, but now it is intermittent in a straight line but all the time when we work on a right circle.....

When I started down the vet/ physio route a few months ago to try to get to the bottom of it she was first diagnosed with bilateral spavins and has had injections in both hocks and is now on cosequin and danilon. There has been a huge improvement coming from behind but she still finds it really difficult to bend and flex in front and treating the hocks somehow seems to have exacerbated the problem and made it much more obvious - like she's suddenly free behind but then goes 'oh no what do i do with my body now - eek' and she has started stumbling and brushing much more with her back legs in an attempt to inhibit the movement again. Can spinal arthritis cause bone spavins in hocks if they hold themselves so much over a long period of time?

I have had her looked at by the physio and the vet and they have both been really helpful and are in agreement that there is something else going on in the saddle area/ back/neck that they cant diagnose without having bone scans done. I am in Scotland and am now just waiting for the insurers to tell me she will definitely be covered for me to send her away to Edinburgh to get the scans done.... So I really just wanted to know everyone elses experience of this and likely prognosis..

I did wonder about breeding from her if she didnt come sound again but i suppose if it is spinal arthritis that may well not be possible as it will put too much stress on her back.

 

[Bert&Maud]

I've spent the last 15 months trying to get my horse to come right. He displays lameness in his right shoulder if collected, as well as sensitivity when grooming, girthing, rugging etc. He has been diagnosed with kissing spines. This may or may not be the problem with your horse, I have now had two with KS and each showed very different symptoms and behaviour issues, one had KS mid back (below my seatbones) and the current one just behind his wither , which is why it affects his shoulder. I spent the first few months after he started showing symptoms having physio, massage therapy etc, but with the benefit of hindsight (a wonderful thing!) I wish I had started with the vet so that we knew exactly what we were dealing with. Good luck and I hope you find a solution.

 

[Ashy]

Hi Tass, those symptoms sound familiar too and might explain the one-sidedness, guess I will have to wait and see... I hope your horse gets better soon and wish you both well.

And thanks to everyone, you have all been really helpful. I will let you know what happens if i manage to get the go ahead for further investigations... fingers crossed!
Wishing all your boys and girls well. x

 

[kerilli]

get a mctimoney chiropractor out. they are marvellous.