Possible neck problem?

[dixie]

Or something else?

I have a lovely horse. He’s really great.
but after 18m of owning he still finds its very difficult to even trot a circle without twisting his neck, chomping the bit and a bit of tongue action.
Today it hit me that he’s showing a few symptoms of a horse I used to have that had neck arthritis.
Not quite the same but he rushes down hill and if it’s really steep he’llstop and is reluctant To go down.
going up hill he’s starts chomping again and falls to the right.
He has had sticking stifles last winter and a bit of damage to his suspensory this summer but I really don’t think this is the problem.
It’s the contact evasion that’s the most frustrating. He’sa very nice horse so feel it’s physical rather being cheeky.
I’m waiting for the vet to ring me back tomorrow and hopefully come and X-ray him.
Have others had this type of behaviour and it was the neck - or what else ?

 

[w1bbler]

My kissing spine horse had all those symptoms + some others
She had a total of 2 years off ridden work, so don't know which symptoms disappeared because of xs surgery & which went just because of rest & rehab.
Spending 2 years fixing a horse though made me realise how interconnected everything is. The biggest part of solving my mares issues was fixing her feet so good luck pinpointing the issue.

 

[Taliesan]

Depending on the breed of horse (although I think from what I remember of the research it has been found in nearly all breeds but the issue is more prevalent in some than others) have you considered ECVM as a possibility?

https://www.ecvmallbreeds.com/wat-is-ecvm

Basically it is a malformation of the C6 / C7 vertebrae in the neck. It can cause all sorts of issues for the horse which range from mild to severe depending on the individual and the extent of the malformation.

The only way to diagnose it is via a neck x-ray and there is a specific procedure for taking it. I believe you can email the website and they will send it out if it is something you are interested in doing. (If you have no joy I think I have it in my emails somewhere and I can find it for you.)

 

[Sossigpoker]

This sounds very much like a hind limb lameness - hocks or stifles or both.
All the evasion and sticking the tongue out is him telling you he's in pain.

 

[Pinkvboots]

If his had suspensory trouble it can often affect hocks and the sacroiliac joint as well they all tend go hand in hand.

One of my horses his 18 now has mild hock arthritis and a bit of suspensory damage had it all treated but he still wasn't right, just not going forward and poor canter so vet medicated the sacroiliac joint and his back to his old self again.

Might be worth speaking to your vet about it.

 

[Birker2020]

It could be 101 different things - everything from trying to evade the bit due to a dental problem, his atlas being out, the saddle not fitting correctly and pinching to pain somewhere else in the body.

The vet should do a lameness workup so he can see if there is any deviation in his stride and way of going and then he will be able to pinpoint more clearly if there is an issue. and concentrate on analysing that area.

If you think there might be a problem in his neck there are various tests you can carry out - the horse may be affected more doing one particular test more than others. The tail sway test can be quite telling if there is an issue with the horse incordinated in its hind limbs.

This is a brilliant neuro examination showing an affected horse and an unaffected horse for comparison

 

[Sossigpoker]

It could be 101 different things - everything from trying to evade the bit due to a dental problem, his atlas being out, the saddle not fitting correctly and pinching to pain somewhere else in the body.

The vet should do a lameness workup so he can see if there is any deviation in his stride and way of going and then he will be able to pinpoint more clearly if there is an issue. and concentrate on analysing that area.

If you think there might be a problem in his neck there are various tests you can carry out - the horse may be affected more doing one particular test more than others. The tail sway test can be quite telling if there is an issue with the horse incordinated in its hind limbs.

This is a brilliant neuro examination showing an affected horse and an unaffected horse for comparison

These "wobbler tests " are really not helpful of useful. My horse "passed " them yet had a severe compression in his neck.

But the inability to bend and tilting the head and neck sounds more like a hind limb and ensuing back issue than neurological.

 

[Birker2020]

These "wobbler tests " are really not helpful of useful. My horse "passed " them yet had a severe compression in his neck.

Really? Gosh my wobblers horse would have failed nearly all the tests and Bailey had an issue with the C7/T1 junction and had a couple of positives to the tests but only very mildly.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Really? Gosh my wobblers horse would have failed nearly all the tests and Bailey had an issue with the C7/T1 junction and had a couple of positives to the tests but only very mildly.

Vets - well the ones that know what they're doing - won't even worry about these "tests ". If they think there might be a neurological issue, a neck x -Ray is quick , easy and cheap and tells you straight away if there's a problem.
Mine was being treated for stifle lameness initially that failed to improve.

 

[Birker2020]

Vets - well the ones that know what they're doing - won't even worry about these "tests ". If they think there might be a neurological issue, a neck x -Ray is quick , easy and cheap and tells you straight away if there's a problem.
Mine was being treated for stifle lameness initially that failed to improve.

My one horse was a Grade 3 - 4 wobbler. He was pts because he was so ataxic.

When my current horse pulled back and became very ataxic within a few days I had to convince my vet to take neck xrays (he conducted neuro tests first). He finally relented and did a number of neck xrays which pointed to arthritis at three points in the neck. But then he couldn't prove that these arthritic changes were what was causing the issues.

The tests I suggested are for the owner to do not the vet, as she seemed to want to know before the vet came out.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My one horse was a Grade 3 - 4 wobbler. He was pts because he was so ataxic.

When my current horse pulled back and became very ataxic within a few days I had to convince my vet to take neck xrays (he conducted neuro tests first). He finally relented and did a number of neck xrays which pointed to arthritis at three points in the neck. But then he couldn't prove that these arthritic changes were what was causing the issues.

The tests I suggested are for the owner to do not the vet, as she seemed to want to know before the vet came out.

I'm just saying that these "tests " are meaningless as e.g a horse with SI problems can seem unstable behind if it's very painful, and like in my horse's case , he had no issues with things like tail pull and turning a circle but the neck compression was severe. So an owner performing these tests might think it's not neurological when it is and vice versa. My horse wasn't ataxic, he was aggressive and lame behind. Something in his movement made the specialist vet suspicious and he x-rayed the neck out of that intuition. And sadly was correct.

 

[dixie]

This sounds very much like a hind limb lameness - hocks or stifles or both.
All the evasion and sticking the tongue out is him telling you he's in pain.

Thanks, this is my initial thought but he's had all these x-rayed and scanned this year and they are all good.

I'll take a look at the video Birker posted in more detail later, although I was already aware of these tests it would be helpful to try them all out.
He's had the dentist, saddle fitter, bit fitter and McTimoney lady out to rule all those out.