Possible psychological issues! Advice please??

[Ellietotz]

Hi!
Long story short, I have a lovely pony who was in a trailer accident a few years a go and has been attempted to be ridden but will try throwing you off and attacking you before and after tacking up or mounting almost like she hates you for considering riding her.
I had her back checked after we tried again a few months a go to ride and she just wouldn't accept it. She had very tight muscles which was causing her a lot of pain it turns out which we hadn't of known as she was turned out for 2 years and was perfectly happy. She loves attention and she's extremely loving when you haven't got a saddle near her! We got the all clear about her back today and she is now pain free but spent 45 minutes of her final treatment kicking and biting and finally relaxed.
Any advice to try a get this lovely pony back to her normal self and be ridden again?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Sounds like she was injured in the accident and you need a vet.

 

[Ellietotz]

She has been fully checked over and she is fine.

 

[Arzada]

What happened to her in the accident? Has she had xrays?

 

[be positive]

She must have been badly hurt in the accident and the injury missed at the time so has left her in long term pain which although was not caused by the saddle or being ridden she now associates saddle and riding with the pain.
She may have been given the all clear by the physio but she still requires a full rehab plan in place, probably with more physio, I would not assume she really is free of all pain and will certainly not be free of tension, is is unusual for them to be so tense in the final treatment even if she did relax in the end it would concern me that she took so long to do so, so I would continue with regular physio.
She needs to go back to complete basics, treat her as if she is unbacked and take her quietly through every stage, if she gets upset give her time and go slowly, ensure the saddle fits really well before using it, it may be best to start with a roller if she gets tense when she sees the saddle, she may never be the same pony she was but if given time and every chance she should be happy to be ridden.

Has a vet seen her? I would not totally rule out something being missed by the vet, if she has not be scanned there could be an underlying injury that is not easy to find.

 

[FfionWinnie]

She has been fully checked over and she is fine.

You've just told us she isn't fine. Horses don't think the way you are describing her to think. There is something wrong with her and she's been compensating for it for 2 years a couple of physio sessions aren't going to solve that one. Get the vet.

 

[Goldenstar]

Why has the horse the issues the physio is treating that's the question you must answer and only a vet can do that .

 

[Dry Rot]

The OP says the horse was in an accident but has been checked out and is now physically fine.

Why can the horse not have psychological issues? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Horses cannot reason and will associate the wierdest things with some traumatic shock.

The only thing I can suggest is lots of patience and working the animal through it's problems with careful desensitisation. The trainer would have to take things very slowly to discover what particular episodes trigger the behaviour and work on that until eliminated.

That could take a very long time and the cure might not even then be 100%. We've got one here and after six months are beginning to make some progress but I sometimes wonder whether it is worth it.

 

[Ladyinred]

The OP says the horse was in an accident but has been checked out and is now physically fine.

Why can the horse not have psychological issues? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Horses cannot reason and will associate the wierdest things with some traumatic shock.

The only thing I can suggest is lots of patience and working the animal through it's problems with careful desensitisation. The trainer would have to take things very slowly to discover what particular episodes trigger the behaviour and work on that until eliminated.

That could take a very long time and the cure might not even then be 100%. We've got one here and after six months are beginning to make some progress but I sometimes wonder whether it is worth it.

This!

 

[ycbm]

Find out why her back muscles were tight after two years rest in a field. That isn't a psychological issue. Has she had a neck and back x ray?

 

[Goldenstar]

Find out why her back muscles were tight after two years rest in a field. That isn't a psychological issue. Has she had a neck and back x ray?

Exactly

 

[Dry Rot]

Find out why her back muscles were tight after two years rest in a field. That isn't a psychological issue. Has she had a neck and back x ray?

OP says (quote): "We got the all clear about her back today and she is now pain free but spent 45 minutes of her final treatment kicking and biting and finally relaxed".

Are back muscles really going to stay tense for two years? I would have thought muscle fatique would have set in long ago.

If she was still in pain, why would she relax after 45 minutes? On the other hand, if she is tense because she has a fear of the unknown (a flash back of the accident?), that fear would diminish over time. As a wise old woman once said to me, "Nothing can remain frightened for ever".

The problem pony we have here tenses up when mounted and you can feel the tension alternating with relaxation with the rider's movements. Rider moves, muscles tense up in expecxtation of something unpleasant following. That is not physical but a memory of some traumatic event when first backed by a previous owner.

Not trying to pick an argument, just find the solution! I think we may need more information from the OP.

 

[ycbm]

Dry Rot, it's impossible to get the all clear for a back without x rays, and if it's a spine ligament tear, sometimes not even then and a scintigraph is needed to find it.

Your pony connects pain with previous bad handling. Why on earth should a pony connect being ridden (and only being ridden) with an accident in a trailer?

OP, has the pony had any scans or x rays since the accident in the trailer? Why did you give her two years off?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Tense back muscles are a side affect of the injury she has sustained in the accident. They will return I should think.

If the pony has been in an accident and rested for 2 years, why on earth would it have a "psychological" fear of the saddle. What would cause a pony to suddenly dislike a saddle after it was in a trailer accident other than simply pain?

Do ponies spend their time off making strange conclusions between trailer accidents and saddles, I really don't think so. I am the last person to shout vet all the time, but in this instance, the pony needs a vet. Then it may need the desensitisation you suggest DR, but there is no point trying to desensitise a horse who has pain, is there.

 

[Goldenstar]

After physio treatment the physio will have addressed the spasm in muscles and the horse will relax but if the underlying cause of the pain is not removed the spasm will return .
There's a world of difference between the horse tensing it's muscles and spasm the horse has no control over spasm .

 

[wench]

Muscle spasm can last a long time. My horse had an accident as a foal that was never treated and had muscle problems years down the line

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

More physio and more time until there is no problem, you can t say everything is OK when the physio session was "dramatic"

 

[Dry Rot]

Oh dear, do I detect emotion creeping into what I had hoped could be a reasoned discussion?

When I was about 13 I put my hand through a window and cut it quite badly. I was rushed to hospital where I was stitched up. No nerves or blood vessels were severed, only flesh.

To this day, I cannot bear to touch that part of my hand. If I even touch it against something accidentally, I get shivers up my spine! Are you saying this is purely physical?

I knew an old lady who was scared of turning the lights on in her house because she had once had an electric shock from a light switch. She would use a switch but handle it as if it was about to bite her! Are you saying this could only be physical?

I am in the 'not proven' category on this one. Yes, it is quite possible to have fears associated with a traumatic event like an accident long after it occurred. I can think of plenty of examples. They are called phobias. On the other hand, I wouldn't try to diagnose a condition in a horse I've never seen -- but I hope that doesn't preclude a sensible discussion!

In my experience (including a brief spell in vet college), vets are very good at diagnosing physical injuries but not very good at the psychological side as they get very little training in that area.

 

[Goldenstar]

No you don't see any emotion creeping in .
I never get emotional about horses I don't know .

 

[FfionWinnie]

You're a human. This is a horse. Horses don't think like humans they think like horses. That's not being emotional that's being realistic.

 

[Ellietotz]

She was fine, not hurt, just shocked but was checked over after.

 

[Ellietotz]

Thank you, I really appreciate that. She has been thoroughly checked multiple times and she is physically fine. Even after lunging her for 5 minutes, she tries to attack you even though on foot, she's so loving so it is clearly physological. I think you're right, I'm going to take it really slow, try and make her think that being worked isn't bad, and try and gain good memories from it. It's going to be a long journey!

 

[Damnation]

Have you tried starting her from scratch asif she has never been broken in before?

Lunging in just a headcollar, desensatising her to things on her back, like just a saddle pad etc?

 

[AmyMay]

Was she previously ok to ride?

 

[Ellietotz]

Thank you!!!

 

[Ellietotz]

We don't know why she had tight back muscles, the vet couldn't tell us but there isn't anything physically causing it.

 

[Ellietotz]

This is all the information I have from her owner in all honesty, I just wanted to help the poor pony. I couldn't make sense of why the physio had problems for the first 45 minutes and all of a sudden became fine. I'm going by the all clear that was given. Personally, I don't see how it could go away after a few sessions as there must be something causing it. All I can go by is what the vet and physician has said. Currently, she is pain free. The physician said she has never seen a pony act like that and 'even Monty Roberts would struggle' apparently. So if we go by the fact she has actually been checked over and somewhat fixed. Where would we go from here even if she still wants to kill you when you make her work? She used to be a really bombproof riding pony.

 

[Leo Walker]

I think you're right, I'm going to take it really slow, try and make her think that being worked isn't bad, and try and gain good memories from it. It's going to be a long journey!

Why does she have bad memories of being ridden?! It was a trailer accident.

This pony is in pain. It jut happens that no one seems to have found it yet.

Whereabouts are you? I can recommend an amazing physio was has literally saved my life and got me walking again, as well as fixing my crooked and sore little horse, the same one that had been checked by untold amounts of people and everyone said he was fine and just being difficult. Turns out he was screaming there was something wrong, but no one was listening

 

[Leo Walker]

The physician said she has never seen a pony act like tht and 'even Monty Roberts would struggle' apparently. So if we go by the fact she has actually been checked over and somewhat fixed.

Mine tried to kill the physio the first time she treated him. Second time he was edgy and threatening. Third time he went to sleep. When they react like that there is usually a long standing/painful issue

 

[Ellietotz]

She was born and raised by the same owner she has now and is now 12. After the accident, she was taken out and really badly freaked out by a car which became very dangerous. Due to her not being the main riding pony and the owner rode her other one mostly, she didn't do anything with her and left her to graze. She then got somebody to take her and retrain her but they gave her back as she tried attacking a car and became too difficult. The owner lost her confidence with riding her so she has been left to it. She mentioned getting a horse whisperer out. I then tried lunging her, taking her for walks around my car etc in the summer last year, she was fine, she did put on a strop every now and then but I stood with her a let her calm down, I didn't make her do anything and I carried treats on me when she was being brave. I then rode her and she wanted me off and kept having little strops every time I picked up the reins or asked her to do anything but she happily walked around on a loose rein with me on top. The owner helped me get on her by holding her still and she spun round and tried kicking her almost like she was angry for helping me get on. After that is when we got her back checked this winter and they found a lot of tension and she had physio. Yesterday is when she was given the all clear from the physician. She isn't insured so the owner hasn't had her in for X-rays as its expensive. So what do we do now if the vet has checked her over and had the all clear?