Possible Ulcers but Excluded on Insurance - Options?

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PercyMum

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Aaah, TBs... why do we have them?!

Think the Knobber has ulcers - he's lost topline, not working through from behind properly, fractious in his mouth and has that 'pot belly' look, and a slightly scoury bot. Also doesn't like his tummy touched. which he is usually fine with. He was treated for them when I first got him and has been fine ever since so not quite sure what's upset him to cause them to flare up (he was treated over 4 years ago). Anyway, he is excluded on the insurance now and its pretty much the same symptoms as before so I am fairly confident its low-grade ulcers again. I won't be scoping him, so my options are to go straight for GastroGuard (eek) or alternatives. I've looked on the forum but there is a lot of conflicting thoughts. I've picked up on the following and wondered what the popular consensus is on what does and doesn't work?

- Egusin (have used this after the GG as a maintenance but not in the first instance so not sure if it would work?)
- Gastroplus
- UlcerGard
- Brewers Yeast
- Straight Omeprazole (what do you ask for in the chemist??)

Those seem to be the main ones I've seen. Feed wise, he is on ad-lib good quality haylage that's more like hay, scoop of Spillers conditioning chaff, cup of Outshine and a cup of Lo-Cal with Turmeric and Pernamax. This is the same am and pm. He's turned out in a woodchip turnout area from 0615 to 1615 and worked 5 days a week, with a variety of hacking, lunging and schooling. No sign of lameness etc and otherwise happy and healthy. To me, he just isn't quite right so I think its the ulcers back.

Any thoughts peeps?
 
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If the horse has ulcers it needs drugs not supplements in the first instance .
Pepizole is a bit cheaper than gastroguard but does the same job I used that when C broke his rib .
I would consider keeping the horse on a maintainence dose of Eugsin in future .
if he were mine I would give a full dose pepizole for a fortnight see if he peps up then half dose for a month starting the Eugsin in last fortnight .
 
I used Gastroplus and it made a huge difference, just about to go on to the Xtend and then I will follow with the maintenance. Also now feed Thunderbrooks herbal chaff as no nasties and less processed than other feed.
 
I'm currently treating mine for ulcers- she has had a very stressful year with 2 operations and prolonged box rest with rehab but hasn't been out in field since may.
She had been ok until a month ago when she got tetchy about her tummy being touched and dropped her topline she had built on rehab. So vet just gave me ulcergold syringes to treat her full dose 2weeks followed by 1/4dose for 2 weeks. We didn't scope as she had symptoms and given her stressful time we just went straight to treat and she is so much better now (still on quarter dose)
I think it's expensive but you need to treat then supplement rather than the other way round!
I am now looking at supplements for ulcer prevention as she still won't get to see a field until spring unless we have a really cold spell to harden the ground!
 
PercyMum said:
Aaah, TBs... why do we have them?!

Think the Knobber has ulcers - he's lost topline, not working through from behind properly, fractious in his mouth and has that 'pot belly' look, and a slightly scoury bot. Also doesn't like his tummy touched. which he is usually fine with. He was treated for them when I first got him and has been fine ever since so not quite sure what's upset him to cause them to flare up (he was treated over 4 years ago). Anyway, he is excluded on the insurance now and its pretty much the same symptoms as before so I am fairly confident its low-grade ulcers again. I won't be scoping him, so my options are to go straight for GastroGuard (eek) or alternatives. I've looked on the forum but there is a lot of conflicting thoughts. I've picked up on the following and wondered what the popular consensus is on what does and doesn't work?

- Egusin (have used this after the GG as a maintenance but not in the first instance so not sure if it would work?)
- Gastroplus
- UlcerGard
- Brewers Yeast
- Straight Omeprazole (what do you ask for in the chemist??)

Those seem to be the main ones I've seen. Feed wise, he is on ad-lib good quality haylage that's more like hay, scoop of Spillers conditioning chaff, cup of Outshine and a cup of Lo-Cal with Turmeric and Pernamax. This is the same am and pm. He's turned out in a woodchip turnout area from 0615 to 1615 and worked 5 days a week, with a variety of hacking, lunging and schooling. No sign of lameness etc and otherwise happy and healthy. To me, he just isn't quite right so I think its the ulcers back.

Any thoughts peeps?
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I agree with whoever has said it sounds like you need meds rather than supplement- I'd do this.

In your situation, I'd consider my options to be;
FB group 'horses with ulcers selling site'... and the 'horses with ulcers' group is also good for advice.

Abler (research first to see how you feel about the legal situation)

Ranitidine which can be bought from the chemists under the name Zantac, but I think the quantities you'd require might make this awkward.

Failing all of those, I'd go with he above suggestions regarding peptizole as GG is just too expensive if you're uninsured (I've been there!)

Also, I might consider cutting out turmeric as I've read it can irritate ulcers and hind gut issues, although I haven't used it personally so it's just what I've read.

If you're unsure of whether it is actually ulcers you could consider a few days on Gaviscon and see if things improve?

I think the brewer's yeast is more of a hind gut supplement and is often combined with yea Sacc to provide Pre and probiotics.

ETA: I don't think you can buy omeprazole over the counter as it's prescription only and even if you could, you'd need loads!
 
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Melody Grey said:
I agree with whoever has said it sounds like you need meds rather than supplement- I'd do this.

In your situation, I'd consider my options to be;
FB group 'horses with ulcers selling site'... and the 'horses with ulcers' group is also good for advice.

Abler (research first to see how you feel about the legal situation)

Ranitidine which can be bought from the chemists under the name Zantac, but I think the quantities you'd require might make this awkward.

Failing all of those, I'd go with he above suggestions regarding peptizole as GG is just too expensive if you're uninsured (I've been there!)

Also, I might consider cutting out turmeric as I've read it can irritate ulcers and hind gut issues, although I haven't used it personally so it's just what I've read.

If you're unsure of whether it is actually ulcers you could consider a few days on Gaviscon and see if things improve?

I think the brewer's yeast is more of a hind gut supplement and is often combined with yea Sacc to provide Pre and probiotics.

ETA: I don't think you can buy omeprazole over the counter as it's prescription only and even if you could, you'd need loads!
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Thanks, and thanks everyone else for the suggestions. My gut (hahaha!) feeling was I'd have to treat first, then look at a supplement, so thanks for pretty much confirming that. Puzzling, as his diet hasn't changed at all in about 12 months and he's not had anything happen. I'm pregnant (which I am finding stressful and horrible!!) but I don't think this would affect him.

Melody Grey - How much Gaviscon would I need to feed him? He's 530kg-ish. Thanks for the tip about the Turmeric. I'd put him on that as he has melanomas and I read it slows down their development. He's been on it for quite a while, about a year. Would it take this long to have an effect?
 
Re: the gaviscon.....probably quite a lot!!! There have been threads on here in the past with people recommending to use it a short a trial- try google searching 'Gaviscon horse hound forum' or similar!

It's an antacid, so I would think it unlikely that there is possibility of overdose?

Re: the tumeric, try consulting Facebook's 'turmeric users group' concerning how long it should take to help the melanomas. From what I gather, the evidence of it working is anecdotal (which certainly doesn't mean it doesn't work) but some people will doubt its efficacy, the same as for treating sarcoids.

It might be worth considering whether there is any possible link between the melonomas and ulcers? Where are they located/ how many/ what rate are they proliferating at?
 
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Melody Grey said:
Re: the gaviscon.....probably quite a lot!!! There have been threads on here in the past with people recommending to use it a short a trial- try google searching 'Gaviscon horse hound forum' or similar!

Re: the tumeric, try consulting Facebook's 'turmeric users group' concerning how long it should take to help the melanomas. From what I gather, the evidence of it working is anecdotal (which certainly doesn't mean it doesn't work) but some people will doubt its efficacy, the same as for treating sarcoids.

It might be worth considering whether there is any possible link between the melonomas and ulcers? Where are they located/ how many/ what rate are they proliferating at?
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Oh god, dreading where I'm thinking you're going with your last Q.... it did cross my mind too, and I stamped it out as paranoia. He's mainly got them on his tail, with 2 small ones round his rectum. I think he may have one up his sheath too, but its small and not causing any problems. I have read that they can go 'internal' and cause issues but horses with that were very obviously uncomfortable and not at all happy. He's just not quite right. Have you seen something different to that?

Thanks
 
I have to admit that my experience with melanomas I very limited, but I think most people with experience of ulcers will tell you that they're rarely a stand -alone condition and usually a result of pain somewhere else. Perhaps the melanomas conversation is one to have with your vet, and i don't think it's paranoia at all, you're trying to make sense of the present with knowledge of the past- that's smart!
 
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Probably a daft thought, but there's no possibility he's eating the surface if his turnout is there? Is he having forage throughout the day?

You could perhaps consider back/saddle/teeth checks too to rule out a simple cause of the discomfort if you haven't already?
 
Hey! :)
I am at this present moment going through this with my horse. However, this is the first time so I have insurance, my vet has advised the following for me:

High fibre feed - Alpha A (Advised not to fall for expensive feeds stating to fix ulcers.) Low starch, high oil, high fibre required. He also said I can put a balancer with this is I want to but not necessary and I have been told to take her off her competition mix as this is too rich.

Ekyguard - I am using at the moment which is a preventative but is currently £75 a box and lasts about a month... very expensive! But it is working...

Forage - Ensure your horse has hay at all times, when not in the field.

Before you ride - Give your horse 1 handful of Alpha A to ensure the acid is absorbed and it doesn't splash around in their stomach.

These are all preventatives and steps I need to follow no matter what going forward even when she is not on her medication.

Please note she is on medication as well as this...so these are only steps to help.

Hope this helps! Any other questions please let me know.

Lisa
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I successfully used a combination of brewers yeast and Barrier Aloe Vera, It took several months but did the trick. Mixed with feed twice a day, it needed a larger dose than normal. Pony is OK now.
 
Didn't Janet George find Nexium (ebay) helped hers? It's non prescription, so like the over the counter omeprazole, probably a low dose so you would need a fair amount. Message her?
 
Ebenezer_Scrooge said:
Talk to your vet.
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Sorry, should have said, I did chat to the vet on the phone, who is happy to prescribe GG given the similarity to previous symptoms but I was looking to see if there were any less eek-worthy alternatives out there before going down that route. Although I may call back to discuss the ulcer/melanoma link :0(

Melody Grey said:
Probably a daft thought, but there's no possibility he's eating the surface if his turnout is there? Is he having forage throughout the day?

You could perhaps consider back/saddle/teeth checks too to rule out a simple cause of the discomfort if you haven't already?
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Thanks. B/S/T checks all done and all clear. Def not eating the surface - he only eats forage. Doesn't even really eat grass (he is really quite odd...)

JillA said:
Didn't Janet George find Nexium (ebay) helped hers? It's non prescription, so like the over the counter omeprazole, probably a low dose so you would need a fair amount. Message her?
Click to expand...

Oh, useful, thanks. I'll drop her a pm and see what she says...
 
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