Post-ulcer treatment feeding - ingredients?

JGC

JGC

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I also posted this in horse care and feeding, but I know there's a lot of ulcer-savvy people in CR so -

My boy is on his Gastrogard course as of today. Turning to looking at what he's going to be eating once he's off the medicine, could anyone help me about what I should look for/avoid in the ingredients list and what I should avoid - we live in France and we can't get a lot of the brands that are usually recommended for ulcer-sensitive horses on these threads? Also, he is on basically a part-livery yard (DIY does not exist round here) and has to be fed with the other horses. He will be the only horse on a different feed and I can only be there myself for the morning feed. I will only have a limited amount of space for storage and I don't think soaking anything is going to work. I know this sounds ridiculous but this is pretty much the case in all the stables round here at least (possibly a general French thing :mad:) and this stable gives by far the best all-round care and is the only one where I can give him all year turnout so moving isn't an option! I have already got my hands on a tub of RiteTrac for after.

The feed company that supplies the yard and Lambey (which is stocked very locally) do "ulcer friendly" feed, but it still seems to have molasses in it and cereals? Even though I think it's in very small amounts (I have asked them for a proper breakdown). It's all a bit confusing. I can't seem to find any brand that I can get that does the equivalent of Fast Fibre and he needs hard feed as he is not a good doer (although hoping this will pick up after GG).

His current feed has:

Alfalfa, Barley flakes, corn flakes, wheat bran, extracted
partially husked sunflower, dehydrated alfalfa,
cane molasses, corn, flaxseed, calcium carbonate, beet molasses, rapeseed oil, barley, rapeseed expeller, dicalcium phosphate, Diamond V ®, premix additives, linseed oil, flavourings (some of the translation might be dodgy!)

That's obviously not going to be alright, just for info.

So what I want to know is, are there any amounts of cereal/molasses that are going to work for a ulcer-prone horse? If so, what are they? :)

Mini jam doughnuts if you got this far :)
 
Think I replied on your other one too :D

I think starch and sugar content under 10% is acceptable, basically the lower the better. Avoid sugar (so carrots/polos) and basically go with the feed that has the most fibre and the lowest cereal/sugar content. And i'm sure you know ad lib hay (avoid haylege which can be more acidic).

Linseed is great for condition and their tummy, yea sacc is great for tummy, if you can get something like Relax Me it is also very soothing for the stomach.

Hope that helps a bit.
 
Charley said:
Think I replied on your other one too :D

I think starch and sugar content under 10% is acceptable, basically the lower the better. Avoid sugar (so carrots/polos) and basically go with the feed that has the most fibre and the lowest cereal/sugar content. And i'm sure you know ad lib hay (avoid haylege which can be more acidic).

Linseed is great for condition and their tummy, yea sacc is great for tummy, if you can get something like Relax Me it is also very soothing for the stomach.

Hope that helps a bit.
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Hee, yes you did :) That is very helpful - most of the threads on here are more geared towards brands that I can't get and the more scientific stuff is making my head spin.

One of the accessible feed companies does a linseed-based pellet, maybe that would be good with the alfalfa. I will obviously talk to the feed companies too, but just worried they'll sell me the wrong thing!

Thanks
 
its really not that straightforward im afraid.
CS eats havens Slobbermash, which is basically cereals through and through (with linseed added in), its got a 38.6% starch content and a 5.6% sugar content................and he does better on this than any of the ulcer friendly stuff i tried before.
with him its the sugar is sensitive to as anything with high sugar levels in upsets his tummy, sugar beet, mollasses, equitop myoplast, most chaffs, all set him off.

other horses are very upset by high starch levels.

can you get hold of winergy feeds out there? they are the one that has consistantly helped EVERY horse ive reccomended it for (out of friends and clients).
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
its really not that straightforward im afraid.
CS eats havens Slobbermash, which is basically cereals through and through (with linseed added in), its got a 38.6% starch content and a 5.6% sugar content................and he does better on this than any of the ulcer friendly stuff i tried before.
with him its the sugar is sensitive to as anything with high sugar levels in upsets his tummy, sugar beet, mollasses, equitop myoplast, most chaffs, all set him off.

other horses are very upset by high starch levels.

can you get hold of winergy feeds out there? they are the one that has consistantly helped EVERY horse ive reccomended it for (out of friends and clients).
Click to expand...

I tried cutting down sugar as much as possible before the diagnosis and he did seem to improve, so interesting that you indicate that that can be a trigger. K did have a very bad episode when I tried him on sugar beet. I'm fairly certain I can't get Winergy - will call and ask - but I probably can get Havens so will bear that in mind! Thanks for the help, feeding is always a mindful and I'm aware I don't know as much as I should.
 
But the starting point though has to be low starch, low sugar and ad lib hay.

Princesssparkle yours sounds an unusual case. Sure the above might not work but it's a good place to start before playing around with the specifics.
 
havens process the grains in a diff way to Uk feed companies (do we use dry heat and they use wet heat, or vice versa? can never remember!) so i have a feeling the starch % on the bag is not really an accurate indicator, but certainly you would never pick up something at that level and try it on an ulcer horse without having some background knowledge.

if you can get Havens easily i would give the slobbermash a try as it really has transformed CS but it does need soaking (i do mine overnight so its ready to go, its not a faff at all :) )

its goes very gloopy and sticky and i think helps line the tummy too.

on top of that he gets winergy high energy as a chaff and alfa a. Alfalfa is very good for ulcery horses too, he gets 1/2 scoop in each feed and an extra half scoop just prior to working.

charley-he is, a real oddball and goes against all the rules, but he cant be the only one and if i had gone soley on research/reccomended by feed companies, i would never have tried the slobbermash and i wouldnt have my lovely boy feeling as well as he does now, so experimenting (withign reason) is always worth it imo.
 
My boy is on the lowest starch/sugar diet possible and plenty of forage, (i'm about to try winergy equilibrium low energy) - my boy lives out 24/7 in all but the absolute worst weather, well rugged when needed - I also add micronised linseed and Alltech Lifeforce to his diet, and cant say enough good things about the lifeforce, I really noticed a difference when i decided to try something else not that he was ulcery again, but definitely looked much better on the alltech - I'm sure you should be able to get it in France with the 'Alltech WEG' in normandy next year!! its economical too.
 
Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I've been dressaging all weekend, but I really appreciate the help. Everything I've tried so far feed/supplement-wise that "should" have helped him has seemed to make him worse! He is already picking up on the GG though, but I know we're far from out of the woods - thanks again!
 
Best of luck, I found going through stomach ulcers with my boy totally soul destroying, and it has affected my confidence possibly forever, but once you're out the other side its such a relief. I genuinely do rate lifeforce though, made the mistake of trying something else recently, and it backfired, resulting in my boys behaviour deteriorating, not seriously/significantly but enough that both me & my friend and the YO noticed... And they don't handle him day to day... 4 days back on the lifeforce... And he's back to normal, happy, relaxed and most importantly safe!!
 
I've got my horse,who's had ulcers 3 times, on speedibeet,oats,linseed,soya & dried grass. Plus mint & fenugreek he's looking well & eating well(very picky eater) I've have to avoid a lot of the recommended feeds as alfalfa sends him nuts(as do many,many feeds!). Hedwards- which of the life force products do you use? I'm interested in trying it as heard good things,but not sure which of them to put him on.
 
Any one use sarecen releve? My boy was found to have grade 3 / 4 ulcers 2.5 weeks ago he is on gastro gard at the mo, have started him on releve and alfa a with oil, was going to add speedy beat come winter... did any one have sucess with the releve?
 
whizzer said:
I've got my horse,who's had ulcers 3 times, on speedibeet,oats,linseed,soya & dried grass. Plus mint & fenugreek he's looking well & eating well(very picky eater) I've have to avoid a lot of the recommended feeds as alfalfa sends him nuts(as do many,many feeds!). Hedwards- which of the life force products do you use? I'm interested in trying it as heard good things,but not sure which of them to put him on.
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Well I have been buying the monthly 'bag' rather than the 'tubs' (even though tubs work out more economical - but havent had much in the way of 'spare' cash) so its the Formula - http://www.rutlandhorseextras.co.uk/page2.htm i'd get in contact with Rutland Horse Extras, they'll be able to advise you of the best option.

Charlie77 - I used releve successfully, and it worked for my lad, however, it was so difficult to get hold of, i stopped feeding it, and as it has been summer I havent really replaced it, just a handful of ERS pellets if needed. I'm looking at Winergy Equilibrium low energy at the moment, although i wont be feeding at recommended levels!!
 
After mine came of gastroguard, she was on a mix of Equifeast's Cool Calm and Collected, Lifeforce, and a product called Aquacid.

After she finished the first pack of Lifeforce, there didn't appear to be any change in her behaviour, so I have left it out. I am on a bit of a budget ATM, and whilst I would like to feed it, she seems very happy on the other two products.

I am very happy with the Aquacid, as it has really helped to keep her insides ok, as well as having other properties.
 
Love the winergy feeds, my boy was scoped earlier this summer.

Found to have squamous ulcers in top half, grade 2 and also grade 2 glandular ulcers. the only management thing I was not doing was giving him a handful of chaff before riding. He is on Winergy balancer or high energy depending on his workload, out at grass during the day, adlib hay at night, travelled with hay and water adlib etc etc.

on GG for a month then rescoped. squamous ulcers gone, glandular still there.

at this point he had shown no signs of ulcers - no clinical signs at all - he is a worrier so I had him scoped to see if ulcers were what made him so nervous when I ride him. apparently not!!

Anyway following 2nd scope he was put on GG at 1/4 dose to take him off it after a month as well as Sucralfate. the plan being that if the glandular ulcers were not cleared by the end of a month then he would be given Antibiotics (as could be helicobacter).

A month later scoped and squamous still clear, pyloric ulcers almost cleared up.

The interesting thing is that two weeks following the Sucralfate he started to really settle under saddle. He's still jumpy but the two events I did we got 26 and 28 dressage (normally its 36/38) and he warms up so much quicker. Obviously that is subjective but my instructor also commented on how he was doing and she didn't know we had changed his treatment.

Anyway he is now on Sucralfate until the season ends.

So I don't think the feeds make any difference to his ulcers but when he used to be on D&H feeds he was totally wild! I'm reluctant to try another feed as this is working so well for his brain.

I also use the condition for my big framed 4yo, he has certainly put weight on and is very shiney on it!
 
It's a shame, but I'm not going to be able to get Winergy. The good news is that in only five days of treatment, his stomach has dropped and started to fill out, so I'm thinking I can to really drop his hard feed - oof! He's getting oil and linseed and I am going to try to get more information about the new Cavalor Fibreforce, which has under 8 per cent starch and sugar, so have everything crossed I'll be able to sort something out:

http://www.cavalor.com/int/products/details/109/cavalor-fiberforce
 
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