Pottery in front

[Cello_song]

I first noticed my horse being not quite right last Thursday - he kept tripping whilst out hacking. I rode him again on the Friday in the school and on the way to the school he did a big trip - nearly landed on his knees! He usually schools really nicely but that day he just wasn't playing ball. I didn't ride him again until Tuesday this week, and again he kept tripping up out on our hack and I just felt that although he wasn't lame in front, he just didn't feel quite right. I thought that perhaps the tripping was because he was needing shod but when he saw the farrier on Thursday he didn't think he feet were over grown enough to be causing the tripping. I tried riding him again on Thursday after he had the new shoes on but he was really not right - pottery on the long sides of the school and a hopping gait round the corners. I had the vet out on Friday morning but unfortunately couldn't be there due to work so the livery owner dealt with it instead. They lunged him in the school and vet thought he was sound on the surface but when trotted up on a hard surface she said he was 'pottery' in front. He also looks a bit 'hoppy' in front when turned in a tight circle. Her diagnosis is

-probably concussion in front feet due to hard ground (I have only walked out hacking for the last 2 weeks as the ground was rubbish, so she thinks it's from him galloping around/playing in the field - but why are his 2 field mates fine?)

- unlikely to be a mild touch of laminitis but as a precaution I have to box rest him for 4 days with bute.

- Worse case scenario - if not sound be Tuesday he'll need to go for full lameness work up and the 'N' word (navicular-eek!)was mentioned as a possibility.

The vet was not my usual one from the practice and I'm just not convinced about the concussion thing - I just wondered if anyone had any ideas/advice?

Horse was diagnosed and treated for Bone spavin in March so I'm worried about this now being an issue with the front end! I'm so gutted as he has been going great since he had the steroid injections! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks x

 

[galaxy]

why would it be unlikely to be laminitus? Did he hoof pincer his feet?

 

[popsicle]

It's a long shot, but my mare had a similar thing just after I got her about 4 years ago. It turned out her feet had been growing unevenly and had caused all these problems. We changed to a farrier recommended by the vet, who balanced her feet, we gave her field rest for 6 weeks to give her chance to re- balance as it were and she has been fine ever since. Hope you get sorted

 

[kezimac]

afraid it does sound navicular like. My own horse started tripping occasionally then just went slightly unlevel. she was rested, buted still not quite right - xrayed and bam yup - caudal foot pain (aka navicular) - she was put into eggbars and came sound with good farrier and has stayed sound ever since (1 yr) - she did go a little unlevel for about a week when ground went mega hard but fine again now and working as normal (no jumpies though)

 

[Curragh]

Thats how my horse was and hes been diagnosed with navicular. Good luck

 

[CBFan]

Yes it could be navicular BUT it also sounds a lot like bruised soles... is your ground quite stoney? My boy suffers a bit walking over our stoney yard - he is barefoot, but I had a shod horse who also suffered and had to have silicone pads under her shoes... did your farrier notice any bruising?

as for Lami, yes that is also a very real possiblility...

 

[amandap]

Please soak his hay while on box rest in case it is laminitis... it's worth the effort just in case.
Did the vet advise any dietry changes?

 

[Cello_song]

Thanks for all your replies.

Galaxy 23 & amandap, the vet did pincer his feet and got no reaction and said no heat in feet or pulse. She said it was unlikely because of his type - he's an IDxTB - but I thought any horse could get laminitis?!? It's frustrating that I couldn't actually be there for vet on Friday because of working to pay for said horse! I have soaked his hay and the vet said to take him off the pasture mix - does that sound right? Never had any dealings with laminitis!

CBfan, it is quite stoney in parts at my yard - the track from his field to the yard is quite stoney. He's always been a bit wimpy on stoney ground and I do always avoid that track out hacking. I hope it is just a bit of bruised soles!

I took him out for a wee leg stretch round the yard this afternoon as he's getting cheesed off with the box rest already and is weaving (never seen him do that before!) and even though he is on bute, i can still see lameness on his near fore when I turned him. I'll see how he is on Tuesday when he's off the bute - fingers crossed he'll be ok. If not looks like another trip to the bush is on the cards...

 

[galaxy]

you're right any horse can get lami....

Could also poss be an abcess? These things can come out strangely.

Have you called your farrier again? Ask him to come out and have a look?

If you're treating him as lami at the moment. Deep bed, soaked hay. How is his condition? ISH can be quite well....

 

[Cello_song]

I think his condition is just right - not too skinny but not a fatty either! When he was in the equine hospital in March for the bone spavins he got 3/5 on the condition score. I know there is a link between steroid injections (which he had on 17th March for the spavins) and laminitis which is what put the laminitis idea in my head. Saying that, I have read on here about horses who have spavins then get navicular. Im just so gutted - i really thought things were looking up for us after all the worry over the spavins!

I'll see how is on Tuesday then think about whether to get farrier or vet out. It's so hard to know what's the best thing to do! Would be much easier if he could just speak and tell me which bit hurts and why!

 

[Andalucian]

Cello_song, its the tripping that's telltale in your post. I've always found this to indicate a caudal foot pain problem, usually due to underrun feet and long toes. The long toes work like having the horse in flippers, it has to work harder to get the toe off of the ground with each step, and sometimes it misjudges it and trips.

I'm afraid the only way forward for real success would be to get the shoes off and bring the foot back under the leg where it should be, but that would mean some time out of work (obviously). Don't lose heart though, its fixable.

 

[kezimac]

I think his condition is just right - not too skinny but not a fatty either! When he was in the equine hospital in March for the bone spavins he got 3/5 on the condition score. I know there is a link between steroid injections (which he had on 17th March for the spavins) and laminitis which is what put the laminitis idea in my head. Saying that, I have read on here about horses who have spavins then get navicular. Im just so gutted - i really thought things were looking up for us after all the worry over the spavins!

I'll see how is on Tuesday then think about whether to get farrier or vet out. It's so hard to know what's the best thing to do! Would be much easier if he could just speak and tell me which bit hurts and why!

mine has spavins and then developed navicular - she is also idxtb - she has very flat feet.
are you insured - think full work up with nerve blocks/ xrays best way to go -will either tell you what it is or put mind at rest. - believe me i know how hard it is to go thru it.
good luck

 

[Janesomerset]

When my pony got laminitis some years ago, the vet said to take him off pasture mix, so he now has a little bit of Happy Hoof with his supplements in. It seems to be very palatable! Re steroid injections, my friend's horse developed laminitis following steroid injections, but it came on very soon afterwards, not several weeks after. He is fine now. Wishing you the very best.

 

[cptrayes]

Luckily this isn't true. The navicular rehab that I am doing now has been in work throughout the process, sticking to surfaces that he is comfortable on at the time. Controlled exercise is a big part of the healing, and the commercial rehab yard that I know also keeps them in work, of course suiting the level of work to what the horse can manage without too much difficulty. They generally seem to get them back to jumping in 3 to 4 months, and mine is also well on target to achieve that.

 

[stormybracken]

My IDxTB gets laminitis in the same conditions my New Forest previously laminitic pony doesn't. Soaking hay is a big help for him. There's been some very positive information on a few threads both here and in New Lounge, as well as information more widely available at performancebarefoot.co.uk and rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk which may help you.

Of course, this may not be what's going on with your horse, but I think more of a discussion with your vet along this line may be helpful! Good Luck.

 

[Kenzo]

I would be happy with what the vet has suggested at this stage, for safety measure I'd also bare in mind that it could be lami so it may be wise to see what you can do regarding the horses diet.

A vet will have to go down each each route to narrow down what it could be, then seeing if there are any changes, bute and box rest probably being first port of call, then perhaps time off (no ridden work or anywhere where the horse can gallops about etc) then maybe worked hard again, also looking how the horse is shod and xrays etc, needs to be done in a logical order so they can pin point where the problem stems from.

It could be something very simple and easy to treat or just the fact that he needs to shod in a different way.

There was one on our yard like this, all sorts went through the owners mind, lami, navicular, side bone....you name it, the horse had xrays, nothing was showing up, vet scratching his head, turns out he just need a few months off and shoeing differently, although the horse was being jumped on what I'd call hard ground when perhaps his legs were not conditined enough the ground conditions, anyway after a month or so, he was fine and has been since, in fact the farrier was very helpful, more so than the vet.

 

[Cello_song]

Well today he finished the prescribed box rest and has had 24 hours with no bute. Trotted up in a straight line he looks OK. Lunged in the school he looked fine apart from one little trip when he first went in to trot. Lunged on grass he was also fine but when lunged on a hard surface he was noticeably lame on the left fore (which was leg he had tripped on). I will ring the insurance company and the vet in the morning and hopefully he'll be able to go for a full lameness workup and x rays soon. Just a bit worried about the insurance side of things in case they try to tie it in with the spavins - you know what insurance companies are like!

Many thanks for all your replies to my post - I'll let you know what happens!

x

 

[neddynesbitt]

Just a bit worried about the insurance side of things in case they try to tie it in with the spavins - you know what insurance companies are like!

I don't know which insurance company you are with but, hopefully I can help put your mind at ease due to my terrible problems with my lad.

He went lame behind so I got the vet out, she said to book him in for full work up the following week & in the meantime get him looked at by the physio, which I did.

Dropped him at vets following week & at lunchtime she called to say he was now sound.....but now lame in front He was dianosed with navicular (MRI scan). He soon went lame behind again so back to the vets.

Like you I was worried that they would tie it in with the front lameness, he was then referred to Newmarket where they found problems with his suspensories, sacroiliac joint & one stifle!!

The vets said they should be treated as separate conditions, so virtually overnight I now had 4 separate claims going on!!

The insurance company were fantastic & didn't quibble at all. Obviously they asked the vets if they were connected but when the vet said they weren't, they paid out & have been fantastic.

I am with Petplan

Good luck

 

[Cello_song]

Horse was in to the equine hospital today for a full lameness work up. They have found through nerve blocks that he is lame in both front legs and the pain is coming from the below the fetlock area. They then did xrays and found mild arthritic changes in the pastern joint and said the tendon/ligament (can't remember which word they used but some kind of soft tissue!) looked a bit rough from the xray. So tomorrow the plan is to work out if the pain is coming from the joint and therefore arthritis of the pastern joint is my problem, or if he has done something to the soft tissues in both pasterns.

I did ask what the prognosis would be for arthritis in the pastern joints but I didn't really get a straight answer - he said some horses respond well to medicating the joint and others don't. Has anyone any experience of this?

I think my lovely riding club horse is going to officially become a happy hacker.

 

[galaxy]

I'm so sorry.

Everything crossed for you. Keep us up to date!

 

[GMR]

I am having the exact same problem, my horse had his hocks injected for the second time, in April, so none of this is covered by insurance. I had the hocks injected , one week later the front legs have gone, my vet says they are ok for his age though, but he wasn't like this before the hocks were treated, so I am going to try another vet. He is so unlevel he feels 2" shorter on one leg at the front.
Apparently I have asked my instructor , who said she had the same thing happen as it just high lights another problem...I'm so upset, I cant ride him, and she says his fine, I feel like retiring him , but I realy need to know whats actually wrong!

 

[Andalucian]

Cellosong I've seen this loads of times. What did the vet say about the foot itself, the balance, are they underrun, does he rate your farrier's work?

If you feel faced with turning your horse into a happy hacker, please consider removing the shoes just for a couple of months to see the difference.

I've had two horses myself with this type of problem, the first one I followed vet/farrier advice and eventually lost her. The second I removed the shoes and at 15 she's still eventing, sometimes she's shod, but never for more than 6 months at a time.

The choice of course is yours.

ETA, its the tripping that tells me categorically that something is badly wrong with the foot balance, if you get the toes right back where they should be the tripping will stop. Surely that's easier than having lots of invasive treatment, why not try this approach first? Talk to your vet.

 

[Cello_song]

Andalucian - The vet thinks his feet are fine - when I pushed him on this he did say I could get my farrier to try rolled toes but that overall he has good feet. Now you've said that though I'm going to ask what he thinks about his toes. I'm nervous about taking shoes off where I am as it is quite stony and I can't access fields to ride on without going on the road. On occasions where he has lost a shoe in the past he has become very footsore - is this something that would improve as he got used to no shoes?

I got him home from the equine hospital on Wednesday night. He's on 2 bute a day for 7 days, then down to 1 bute a day for another 7 days. In that time I've to ride him daily at walk for 30 mins. I started this on Friday but am not really happy with how he feels...

On Friday I took him round the field right behind the farm (so closest grassy bit for me) but to get to that I have to ride along a stony track - he felt awful on this! Really pottery in front. Felt great walking on grass though. Then yesterday I tried to take him to another field to ride round that is the next closest one but it is about 500 yards on the road down hill. He was really pottery going down the hill - much worse than before he'd had the steroid injections. Again, great once i'd got to the grass. So now I'm really upset as surely on 2 bute and just having had steroid injections he should feel better, not worse?!? I can't avoid hills, roads or stony tracks where I am!

The hacking at my yard is actually really good but I can't get anywhere without either going down the stony track or going on the road which is when he feels worse. Should I persevere or listen to the gut instinct and stop riding him? I'd also thought about trying to find another yard with off road hacking, or, even better, beach hacking as i do live close to the coast. Is it fair to put him through the trauma of moving yards if he's still going to be too sore to ride? Or is it worth a try?

Really don't know what to do next - will phone the vet from the hospital tomorrow but am feeling reluctant to follow the instructions and ride him again today.

GMR have you stopped riding your horse now?

 

[GMR]

Hi,
my vet didn't really , in-fact didn't give me any advice on weather to ride or not, I did ask, but I haven't ridden him. First she said don't ride him, then said don't ride him today as I have nerve blocked his feet. I don't trust her.
I am going to call rossdales tomorrow and see if they will take him , as they saw him 5 years ago for his spavins after another vet said it was his front legs and it wasn't, it was his spavins and suspensory's on the back that made his heels on the front sore ( and bruising under the spine). they found that out from a full body bone scan.
I want to be sure it is his fronts that are causing the problem as I don't want all that shoeing etc...if its not necessary.
I am really tempted if I have to go to her for treatment to say I want his shoes off first.
Georgina x

 

[GMR]

Hi, sorry Cello song, I missed out some info there!!
I managed to get the vet back and now she agrees he is lame on the fronts, and says it navicular...even without an x ray!!I really want to go to Rossdales as I trust them...its so frustrating.